Help! D wants to change horses midstream!

Parents Forum
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<p>Fellow parents: The following was posted by a new member, rentsof2D, in a different subforum. Knowing it will get better traction here, I've taken the liberty of re-posting the question here. Please dive in! PS- I hope I haven't violated any policies by doing this.</p>

<p>D1 is finishing her junior year at an average public HS. Not great, not terrible -- listed in USNWR at around #1000 for US as I recall. She takes her learning very seriously, and starting this past winter basically developed senioritis. Maybe senioritis isn't the right term -- it's not that she's a slacker, at all, just that her approach to school is appropriate for college students, but not really HS. Every course she is taking is AP, so you would think the classes would be challenging, the teachers excellent, and her fellow students lively. But what she sees is that most of her peers are swallowing and regurgitating facts without thinking or caring about any of it. This has affected her grades a bit, mainly in attendance and rote homework assignments. She points out -- correctly, i believe -- that she will get more learning done at home than sitting in a classroom with students who don't care and teachers (some of them, anyway) who aren't so hot or doing exercises that reinforce conformity. So she'll stay home from school, with our reluctant blessing, or not turn in laborious but relatively pointless projects. (She strongly suspects that there is some "sharing" going on among her peers, eg in math exercises, which she refuses to do.) Again, we're not keen on this approach, but do understand that it stems not from laziness but rather caring too much.</p>

<p>In short, she has announced, repeatedly, that she does not intend to return to this particular HS -- or any, if she can help it -- for her senior year. She has not really proposed a serious alternative (we think, for example, that finding a foreign exchange program that would take her starting this fall is unlikely), but even if she did come up with something that seems workable (home schooling, classes at a CC or nearby U for example) I worry that the very selective LACs that she is wanting to apply to would take a dim view of such a change as a senior. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Real life experiences? I know that families move, situations change, so this sort of thing must come up all the time, but I worry that her leaving this school without good cause will be perceived as "I gave up on HS," rather than "I took charge of my learning."</p>

<p>Stats: UW GPA 4.0, Weighted 4.35; SATs 2100 or so; a 5 on her sophomore AP exam. A lot of depth in one outside activity, a couple of after-school jobs...she's a pretty competitive applicant so far.</p>

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<p>“But what she sees is that most of her peers are swallowing and regurgitating facts without thinking or caring about any of it. This has affected her grades a bit, mainly in attendance and rote homework assignments”</p>

<p>In other words, she uses the fact that some of her classmates aren’t engaged to blow off attending class and finishing her own homework. That’s a novel one – “I had no choice but to skip my class because I’m so upset that other kids don’t care the way I do.”</p>

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<p>Sounds like a bored, gifted child to me. Have the parents check out gifted sites such as Hoagies and the Davison Institute for ideas. HS can be terrible for students and college, especially a good one, can be so much better. perhaps she can take online courses through Stanford or some other institution to supplement her HS offererings. The most important thing is for her to keep engaged in the educational process- she needs to know there is a reason to keep going her final year to be able to have the life she wants the following year. Perhaps checking on colleges this summer will motivate her to continue to jump through the HS hoops. Anything to keep her motivated to do well.</p>

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<p>My D felt the same way just before finishing her Junior year. A lot of kids start feeling alienated. Some kids foul the nest at school, some at home and some both. She is getting ready to move on to college. I would encourage her to find something outside of her current school which would engage her intellect and at the same time stick with her current school. BTW, she will probably feel the same way about fellow students and faculty by the time she is a senior in college.</p>

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<p>She’s going to have to find a college or university that will let her matriculate without a high school diploma if she decides not to finish high school. I imagine these schools exist, but they may not be the “very selective LACs” she says she wants.
I know someone who left high school for a while after her parents divorced, and ended up graduating from Stanford Law. But that was almost 40 years ago. These days, with all the competition from super-qualified students who did get through senior year, I think not having graduated from high school would be a huge disadvantage, if not a right-out disqualification. I would at least try to get her to finish the units to graduate, even if online.
She may not be much better off at college, however, with her attitude towards assignments and other students. At least not right away. Maybe a few years of working in the kind of job she can get without a high school diploma might change her tune.</p>

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And how are her grades holding up under this new approach? I would like to know how not doing math exercises exemplifies “caring too much”? What is it that she is caring too much about here?</p>

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<p>News flash - a lot of life success requires showing up and doing things that one might consider stupid or beneath one. It’s a very entitled attitude- the idea that one is entitled to blow off attending classes and turning in “pointless” assignments.</p>

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<p>^
I agree. Growing up, my mom always told us that half the battle of work and school was showing up. Very necessary for anything, if not sufficient.</p>

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<p>Wow, I’m thinking she has you both completely bamboozled. So sorry you don’t like to do homework and that your peers aren’t up to your standards. Boo hoo. She is choosing to not be engaged. </p>

<p>She has one more year left. Do it and get out. I hated HS. I still graduated, and did it a year early. Best decision ever.</p>

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<p>Will she have a 4.0 UW at the end of this year? I think that a student that decided to try something new after acing a year of APs will be viewed differently than a kid who leaves after their scores tank.</p>

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<p>I’m laughing a little to see parents being scornful of this girl’s attitude. If I had a dime for every parent who’s described a boy this way I’d be pretty wealthy, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a boy dissed for it. Of course coasting through at less than full power is one thing, leaving is another. I’ve known kids who finished HS through online courses, and there’s Simon’s Rock “early college”…but I wonder what’s beneath the surface here. Is there no teacher she feels close to and excited by? No friend group that buoys her up? My guess is that this has been a bad year for some reason the OP hasn’t discovered yet…and that her D is grasping at straws for a solution now, in the last weeks. I think a good talk with mom or whoever she’s close to might help resolve the problem without any drastic measures.</p>

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<p>She can get a GED, people do. But her collegenoptions may not be whatmshe envisions.</p>

<p>There is more to to her story. Skipping classes, blowing off assignments, doesn’t sound so smart to me. </p>

<p>I would have her look at the lacs require,ents and maybe she willmsee that turning in a stupid paper isn’t the end ofmthe world nor will it hurt her. Unless she is being bullied, or has some other major issue going on, I would say school, and suck it up.</p>

<p>I have a hunch about something, but will say nothing but in a year will ask the question.</p>

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<p>I think uchicago will let you matriculate without a diploma. What courses does she need for the state graduation requirements?</p>

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<p>Many students (and teachers) find that this is a problem with APs, too much speed at the expense of depth and retention.</p>

<p>I think that your daughter’s reactions are healthy. It sounds as if you are pushing her down a prestige track with knowledge of her high school’s USNWR rank (?) and talk of “very selective LACs.” She needs to do some real learning and growing, not scramble up some false ladder.</p>

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<p>I agree with Pizzagirl. Life and jobs…and college classes…involve showing up and doing what you are supposed to do. </p>

<p>This may sound like hardball…but my kids had choices. They could,remain in school and live with us through college…or they could leave school, get jobs…and pay either us or a landlord rent.</p>

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<p>Only a very limited number of the some 4,000 colleges and universities in the US require a high school diploma or GED for admission. Almost all will admit any student who they believe to be “college ready”. If your daughter is truly fed-up with high school, and she can leave without putting her parents in violation of local or state truancy codes, let her quit.</p>

<p>She can work, volunteer, study for a GED, apply to colleges without the diploma, pursue home schooling options, travel, or just lounge around the house if that is fine with you. She also could enroll at your closest community college or a tech school to master a trade that will help her pay for her further education. Some of Happykid’s classmates at her “Newsweek Top 100” high school spent half-days in their junior and senior years at the Tech Ed. campuses preparing for EMT/Firefighter exams or studying Hospitality Management. That might work for her too.</p>

<p>Lastly: Too Smart and Too Bored very often equals ADD. If that is the case, things may just get worse once she hits college. Maybe the time for testing is now.</p>

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<p>“Too smart and too bored very often equals ADD.”</p>

<p>^^^^ That. Of the several kids I know who presented in a similar way midway through high school, most were diagnosed with ADD or with a mental health issue within two years.</p>

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<p>Ummm, actually not so much. You know what they call a college student who doesn’t go to class or turn in what she perceives to be stupid, mindless work?</p>

<p>A former college student.</p>

<p>While I share the student’s frustration with busywork and disappointing teachers and peers, there is no reason to think that this behavior will disappear in college (assuming she even gets in). There’s plenty to disagree with in our current educational system, that’s for sure, and if the student can get where she wants to be without playing the game, more power to her. But if her long-term goals include college, she’s going to have to find some way to motivate herself to put up with the b<strong><em>s</em></strong>. It doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a diagnosable condition there.</p>

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<p>Is it possible that she has enough credits to graduate already? If not, can she take what’s needed online or at community college?</p>

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<p>I don’t really think it’s appropriate to blow off attending courses in college, either, frankly.</p>