Should women be eligible for a future draft?

College Confidential Community
41

<p>I dont think one of the duties of a citizen is to fight in a way with no basis. I could even understand sending troops to Afghanistan but there is seriously no reason for us to be in Iraq except for the oil companies.</p>

<p>America is founded on the idea of natural rights. Isn't that why the colonies split from England, because they weren't being given the rights of englishmen? Its stupid to just accept anything the government does. The government is supposed to serve people and if it doesnt then you have the right to rebel, that's what John Locke who the founding fathers were influenced by said. </p>

<p>I dont think I'm taking and taking and giving nothing back. Seriously, what has the government ever GIVEN to me? Nothing is free. If I get something, it's because my parents have paid taxes. Any money the government has is because it took it from the citizens. It's not as charitable as you think. Unless giving welfare so they'll get votes. </p>

<p>I thought it was supposed to be the beauty of america that you can oppose the government. If not then that would be an oligarchy I guess. You're not supposed to just 'suck it up' even though that's what most people end up doing. I think this is basically a pretty great country, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with the war or a draft.</p>

42

<p>if you dont want to give up your neutral rights nobody is making you stay here....that's the beauty. If you disagree with the draft then leave? However if for some chance in the future there is a draft, like hrtz said, it doesn't matter if we're fighting for chocolate milk you have the obligation to go....why? Because you passively accepted this obligation when you decided to stay in the US. The govt provides us with hundreds of services.....sure, you pay taxes but I'm sure you dont decide what we import/export? The individual doesn't have the power or resources to direct aid after natural disasters.....the state provides hundreds of services and in return it asks that you pay taxes and, if called upon, fight....whether you like it or not. </p>

<p>And nobody says you have to agree with a war or draft, however if you're an american male and 18 you sign up for a potential draft....if you dont wanna be drafted then leave and don't sign up? Nobody is forcing you to do it...</p>

43

<p>The average American cittizen has no major way to influence the political system when representatives are in office. There is no way at this time to remove a President for starting an unpopular war. Once a President is elected, he is not accountable for any promises made before he was elected, even if he said he won't start a war. Voting is not a sufficient mechanism for the average cittizen to affect the political decisions of sitting representatives since they are not accountable until the next election, and by then the damage is done. If one cannot access the political system of the United States, how can one be put in a position to fight for it? The litmus test is if those who are going to fight in a war are willing to do so.</p>

<p>Futhermore, the American politician has found a way around the safeguards of the Constitution. Because the President has the ability to start a "police action" that will inevitably lead to a full blown war without Congressional Authority, the Congressional power to "declare war" is meaningless (they will be forced to when the situation escalates even though the executive caused this escalation in the name of national security) and the checks and balances of the Constitution are meaningless as well. Because such is the case, the decision to go to war is in the hands of one man, who is not accountable for his actions. And since this is the case, the American cittizen has no influence in his own government and thus has no reason to fight for it.</p>

44

<p>And plus things are not fair. Rich people get out of the draft yes and deal with it(btw i am not rich) Screw equal rights stuff. Sure everyone gets equal rights (thats important), but there still needs to be distincitions made and it will happen or else we will be in a communism which is about the worst thing that can EVER happen to a government. Oh yeah one of u said u could revolt, then do so. I would like to see what happens. U say the gov has done nothing 4 u, well i wonder if u have ever lived in another country. Of course u guys wont go away from the gov and america cos we are the best. Yes many kids in college kids will be exempt because we still need kids do learn and later on do stuff once the war is gone.</p>

45

<p>Also, to those of you who say that since you don't agree with a war you shouldn't have to serve I ask what you think about taxes. I don't agree with tons of programs that are funded by taxes, but does that mean I have the <em>right</em> and the <em>freedom</em> not to pay them?</p>

46

<p>so you guys are seriously just going to follow whatever the government orders you to do? wow</p>

47

<p>don't you do whatever the govt orders you to do ad.bc?? You follow their laws, pay their taxes, go to their schools.....</p>

48

<p>Yeah, but in her MIND she's rebelling! <em>sarcastic snort</em></p>

49

<p>i think you've misunderstood me</p>

<p>you seem to think i am like 100% anti us government, imo thats kind of stupid because the only thing i said was that you shouldn't have be forced to fight an unjustified war. i mean its your life, you only get one shot at it, and what does some stranger in washington care about you specifically?</p>

<p>i don't do whatever the government orders me to do because they order me to do it. i do it because i think that it is reasonable. having to sacrifice YOUR life so some rich person can get richer is not reasonable. i haven't been put in the situation of being drafted, but if i was i would be a conscientious objectors unless i really believed in the cause. im not going to be someones puppet in their greedy power struggles.</p>

50

<p>No one should be drafted. Ever. Get off your soapbox. It doesn't matter if one has a country to live in (which matters less by the second) if one is dead. It's not about fairness or "making everyone do their part". You have no moral or patriotic obligation to serve in the military against your will. It's about government's repression of dissent during wartime. It's about slavery. Besides, the US has done fine with an all-volunteer military for ages. Why try to fix what's not broken? </p>

<p>Thomas Jefferson once said, "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." Sometimes, massive outspoken dissent and refusal to give in to government demands is exactly what this society needs.</p>

<p>"When the government is afraid of the people, there is freedom. When the people are afraid of government, there is tyranny."</p>

51

<p>See, here's the problem: if you were in court, the very idea that you agreed to give up your natural rights and knew exactly what you were doing at birth is unconscionable and wouldn't fly in court. Besides, even if it were true, any contract you sign as a minor is voidable by the minor at any time. </p>

<p>Government exists because people pay taxes to support it. We have NO obligation WHATSOEVER to government, ever. It's people that think that one has an obligation to give up his/her rights to the government that breeds repression and regimes like George Bush. The government really does nothing for you. Any social services you use (sometimes don't even use), you pay for through taxes. You owe government nothing. If there's a shortage of troops, well, that doesn't obligate me to make up for the shortage. </p>

<p>And whatever duties that you have, you fulfill them by paying taxes.</p>

52

<p>what if I don't want to pay taxes? Don't I have that right? Why should I give $$ that goes to benefit people that I don't want it to benefit?</p>

53

<p>New Newsweek article has Army guy calling for draft. </p>

<p>Funny thing is, college students are exempt, meaning rich people still won't have to serve.</p>

54

<p>"the very idea that you agreed to give up your natural rights and knew exactly what you were doing at birth is unconscionable and wouldn't fly in court." </p>

<p>When you choose to remain a part of society after you become an adult, you agree to an implicit contract with the state. It safeguards your rights and, in return, you pay taxes, obey seemingly arbitrary laws, and go to war if/when you are drafted. </p>

<p>You are obligated to do these things because, if you didn't, society would collapse and everyone would suffer. If you (and by you I mean everyone) didn't pay taxes, there would be no law enforcement and no rule of law. If you (again everyone) refused military service if/when a draft was instituted, national security could be jeopardized. Don't think of it as an obligation to the government, think of it as an obligation to the common good. </p>

<p>"you shouldn't have be forced to fight an unjustified war"</p>

<p>I agree with you, in theory. I also agree that it would be a complete tragedy if people were sent against their will to fight in a war like Iraq. The problem is that it isn't practicable for individuals to pass judgments on whether a particular conflict is worthy of their service. Most wars, even 'righteous' morally sound ones, become unpopular with the public after a few years. In 1863, almost half of all Northerners wanted a negotiated peace with the South. Imagine what would have happened if people were allowed to opt out of the draft if they felt the war was unjustified. It's unfortunate, but to ensue our collective security, we have to accept that incompetent leaders could potentially send us into a 'bad' conflict against our will. </p>

<p>"Besides, the US has done fine with an all-volunteer military for ages. Why try to fix what's not broken?"</p>

<p>Yeah, you're completely right. Chances are, we won't see another draft for a long time. But the option has to remain on the table. If the US entered into a major regional war, a draft might become necessary.</p>

<p>"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" </p>

<p>So dissent. Flood the streets with protestors and make your voice heard. You are completely justified in objecting to a draft's being instituted at any particular time, just not to the concept of one in general.</p>

55

<p>
[quote]
New Newsweek article has Army guy calling for draft. </p>

<p>Funny thing is, college students are exempt, meaning rich people still won't have to serve.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>link???????</p>

56

<p>College students are and have never been exempt. all exempt means is that you have to finish your current semester then report to duty. Just because you are in college means little or nothing.</p>

57

<p>
[quote]
you agree to an implicit contract with the state.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but last I looked, there is no UN convention which allows you to choose ANY nationality you want at the age of 18. Your nationality is arbitrarily assigned to you at birth, which you had no choice of at birth, and which you still have no choice of when you're an informed adult. The "implicit contract" you "agree" to was one you "agreed" to under duress (you can't give up your nationality unless you are a national of another country), and is still null and void. And an "implicit" contract is, by nature, null and void. All terms must be laid out explicitly and clearly, and there must be a meeting of the minds, of which there is none.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It safeguards your rights and, in return, you pay taxes, obey seemingly arbitrary laws, and go to war if/when you are drafted.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I follow the laws and pay taxes. Government safeguards your rights (well maybe not the US government but other ones do...maybe) because you pay for it. You owe your government nothing. You pay for every service you receive from it (and sometimes even ones you don't receive-you pay for public schools even when you choose to send your kids to private school). You have no obligation to essentially become a slave to government.</p>

<p>
[quote]
national security could be jeopardized.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Who cares about national security? If you're drafted, you're dead!! And in this day and age of globalization, the very idea of nationalism is antiquated and should be stamped out.</p>

<p>
[quote]
So dissent.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Too bad we lost the right to that when King George IV passed the PATRIOT Act. Now, anyone who dissents (or anyone for that matter) can be declared an "enemy combatant", kidnapped, sent to Cuba, and tortured until they admit to some ******** manufactured charge and get a life sentence. Did you agree to that as well? I sure as hell didn't.</p>

58

<p>Everyone here misses the point. If we are allowed to say no to the draft then what other laws can we just decide not to follow? Can I say "I dont support the war, but since my tax dollars are going to the war I have the right not to pay them?" Can I say "The constitution never states that I need a drivers license so I have the right to drive without one?" </p>

<p>No, you can't. There are certain laws/regulations in this country and if we don't follow them we are punished. If you don't like one of the laws enough (say, the draft) you are free to leave the country.....I really don't see what the big deal is. You enjoy the benefits of this country and in turn you are expected to follow all the laws. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Too bad we lost the right to that when King George IV passed the PATRIOT Act. Now, anyone who dissents (or anyone for that matter) can be declared an "enemy combatant", kidnapped, sent to Cuba, and tortured until they admit to some ******** manufactured charge and get a life sentence. Did you agree to that as well? I sure as hell didn't.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>quit spouting whatever you hear from the tin foil hat types....please demonstrate one instance where this has happened. Where a US citizen has been kidnapped for dissent and tortured. Where this patriot act (passed by bush and democrats) has done what you describe. Please don't make false claims, it's akin to lying. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I follow the laws and pay taxes. Government safeguards your rights (well maybe not the US government but other ones do...maybe) because you pay for it. You owe your government nothing. You pay for every service you receive from it (and sometimes even ones you don't receive-you pay for public schools even when you choose to send your kids to private school). You have no obligation to essentially become a slave to government.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>False. You don't pay proportionally to what you get. Do you really think your yearly tax dollars pay for everything you get? No way in hell but the government requires EVERYBODY to pay those taxes and as such you benefit from this system that the government has in place. The government also "makes" money through trade and economic conditions that help pay for these services. Taxes DO NOT constitute the sum of the $$ the govt has to give you services....</p>

59

<p>Wow, we were just talking about this is AP Government today. If there is ever need for a draft, this is going to turn into a huge issue. Although I really hope that I (as a woman) wouldn't get drafted, I believe that they should draft women too. We should have equality in all areas, not just in the "good" ones. I think I would really suck as a soldier. I wouldn't be able to kill anyone.</p>

60

<p>

</p>

<p>The only time the draft would ever be instituted again would be in a situation where it wouldn’t be a “huge issue” ie a serious, global conflict where the status of the US in the world scene is at stake (serious stake). They aren’t going to bring back the draft for Iraq and anybody who thinks they actually will is nuts…no offense.</p>