That’s good to hear, re: jobs. And not counting on merit (I misspoke earlier) – just need the aid number in the NPC to match up with whatever he is ultimately offered. At this school, in particular, that seems to often be an issue (although to be fair the messages I’m seeing on CC about this all seem to be from non athletes – not sure that it matters, but worth noting).
As for how likely he is, he was given a roadmap and it was very explicit: do X, Y and Z on your application and you will be okay. The coach did not seem concerned he won’t be admitted; however, it should be said – our son’s guidance counselor does not share that optimism. She thinks it’s going to be very close, but I feel like the coach would be the person best positioned to make that prediction?
It is absolutely a game, and a gamble, and I’m truly grateful he has the opportunity to even be in this position. I just wish there was a little more clarity for recruits, who often don’t have the luxury of time. When every declined OV is a door that closes, possibly for good, wouldn’t it be better for all involved to just issue a likely letter and do a financial preread, if you’re going to ask a kid to apply ED? That way nobody is wasting anyone’s time, everyone knows where they stand, and we can all move on (if necessary), accordingly.
He is lucky in that his second choice (D1; he would get in and make team easily) has made it very clear they will wait for him. That helps.
Agree that it is stressful, but this is driven by the AO vs the AD. While not hostile, the AO’s in these selective schools want to reserve the right to make the call, almost always after a completed app is submitted committing to ED/REA. If coaches are giving full support after a positive preread and are confident, I think the athlete can be pretty confident as well. Troubling that this college won’t do a FA preread. Might make sense if the school is not 100% need met where they have a strict FA budget that they won’t be able to dole out until after all acceptances are in.
If the guidance counselor does not have experience with recruited atheletes at this school, preferably in this sport, then her opinion is probably not going to be very informed. She may be the best college placement counselor in the country, but this is a completely different process.
I know plenty of kids, including one of my own, that would not have had a snowball’s chance in hell at getting admitted without coach help. If I gave his numbers to a guidance counselor that regularly sends kids to that school, she would laugh and say don’t waste the application fee. But the coach said he had gotten kids with much worse numbers so don’t worry. And he was correct, S was admitted ED.
I’m not saying that is always the case, and it’s worth pinning the coach down on how confident he is exactly. It is not universal but MOST coaches are pretty honest. If you think about it, they have very limited slots. They are not going to waste one on your son if they don’t think they can get him in. Sure, they can pick up a player in RD. But a lot of talent commits during the ED round. The coach only gets a few shots at bringing talent to campus, so they are pretty careful to not waste any of them. Because ultimately if they don’t bring in the players they need to have a successful team, they will need to find different employment. For selfish purposes, it doesn’t do the coach any good to offer your son support if he isn’t pretty confident it will be successful.
I have them all saved, believe me Really not a ton of variation except that we had to take an early distribution from my 401K in 2020 when my husband (a teacher) lost his pt job due to covid – penalty free, per the CARES Act – but it inflated our income, albeit on a one-time, only, basis. I’ve explained as much in the CSS Profile but nowhere really to factor that in on the NPC, other than to just leave it out entirely, and that gives us a much different number than when it is left in. Even if I go with the higher number, though, I still see nightmare stories on CC about this particular school diverging wildly from the NPC. Enough that we really just won’t rest easy until mid-December. It is what it is!
Again, thrilled that this school is even a possibility for him. I just wish that if it ISN’T a possibility, we could figure that out sooner rather than later.
If you think your kid won’t get in without coach’s help, what do you think will happen if your kid actually attends the school? Will there be a good chance that your kid will struggle academically? If pre-read is cleared, I believe AO is confident that your kid will be successful. This is the question I always have. Is it worth to go to the elite college to struggle academically, or attend a college where you are 75 percentile.
My friend’s kid was recruited to an elite hs. During the discussion with the head of school, the HOS said that anyone admitted to this school can do the work. The work is not the issue. In fact, the HOS said that they could fill the school five times over with A+ grinds, but it will not fulfill a NEED to help the school.
So a decent student who can do the work AND help defeat rival schools AND help win a state championship is what they NEED. 4.00 GPA STEM grinds. Not so much.
So, these <10% elite schools can fill their school 10 times over with kids who can do the work, but not 10 times over D1 level athletes who can do the work.
If one is talking about a school with a 10% admit rate, or a 20% admit rate, pretty much everyone needs coach support to know they will be attending that school!! Not sure why you are assuming a “bottom of the barrel” student here.
Exactly. Every athletic recruit, even those with tippy top academics need full coach support at the highly selective schools. Some with tippy top stats might get only soft support, but things are less likely to work out then.
Why? I think it is a legitimate concern. Are you being sarcastic by saying “why are you assuming a bottom of the barrel student here?”? Which student are you talking about? I am not talking about your kid or any one particular kid. I am going thru the same process with my son, and this concern was always sticking to my head. I am not questioning about the coach’s support.
For the record he’s not THAT far off. Naviance has him as a match. 3.97 unweighted. It’s his SAT (1310) where he deviates from the norm, at this school, thus the instruction to go test optional. Acceptance rate is about 15%.
He’s an odd duck, but athletically a catch for them. Has finished seasons top 5 in the nation in his event, in his grade. Has qualified multiple times for nationals. State champion x2. But he’s not seeking clout, not looking to go pro, feels like he has nothing left to prove, just wants to continue being part of a team for mental health and social reasons. He literally wants to parlay this goodwill he has built up into getting into an elite school. And considering the work he has done and the sacrifices he has made, to get here, don’t really feel like we should stand in his way.
As @cinnamon1212 and @Mwfan1921 stated, just getting coach help does not mean that you aren’t a good student at many of these schools. If we are talking about the tippy top D3’s, I don’t think a 4.0 1600 kid is necessarily safe without some help.
But you raise a valid point and one that doesn’t have a clear cut answer in my opinion. I think there are several things to consider. In no particular order and off the top of my head (so I’m sure I am missing some):
How far below are we talking about? A kid at the 25th percentile? Or a 25 ACT headed to Amherst or Williams? 25th percentile means that that there are still 25% of the kids with worse academics. That isn’t the easiest road but is probably doable. A 25 ACT when most of your classmates are 33+ is going to be rough.
What is the major? Some are easier than others, and some have more discretion in grading. If a humanities major, you may well be able to get mostly B’s even if you aren’t at the correct level. If it is a stem major with more objective grading, it’s a lot harder to give a “Gentelman’s B” on a calc test with 40% score when the median grade was 85%. Also the major at that particular school matters too. If it kid is decently below the median overall, it is worth looking into the major. They need to go into a major that does not draw the tippy top kids at that reach school (like premed kids at WashU or Hopkins, or I’m guessing math at Williams for example).
Related, what is the future plan? If premed or prelaw, I would really hesitate to reach at all. If anything, it may be a good idea to bump down a level to help increase the odds of a good GPA.
Know your kid. Most athletic recruits probably rise to the occasion when challenged athletically. Some will in all aspects of life including academics, some won’t. If you are honest with yourself, you probably know where your kid falls on that spectrum.
Also know your kid’s study habits. If they are willing to put in the work, unless it is a massive reach they should be fine. But they may have to work harder than the average student, and do it while having what equates to a full time job in season and part time one out of season.
Even if they CAN rise to the occasion, will they be happy? Again it depends on the kid. I have one who wants to better than everyone at everything, regardless of what it takes to get there, full stop. She would be fine. Her siblings though would be happier at someplace that is less of a grind, and where they are in the top 25% not the bottom 25%.
I’m sure there is more to consider, that was just off of the top of my head. If you (or anyone really) wants more detailed info, I am happy to share my personal experience with an athletic recruit kid who was below the 25% number at a tippy top school. I put some info out here, but don’t want to put out too much that is publicly searchable because if I do his situation is specific enough he is pretty easy to ID.
I read the use of “you” in your post to mean you were addressing the OP. (If you think your kid won’t get in without coach’s help, what do you think will happen if your kid actually attends the school?) My apologies for misunderstanding.
@Maplemel Chiming in about the NPC or Family Contribution as I often heard it called when were looking at the #s closely.
Have you reached out to the schools financial aid office? If it is a concern I would not hesitate to contact them.
One of our kids was an athletic recruit at a top Ivy and cost was a factor to us.
We did reach out to the financial aid offices when applying and after accepting. Our situation may have been different but I can tell you that they looked a lot closer at our income and assets, plus any outside merit scholarships which we knew would be the case, but it did impact significantly what we were expecting or calculated for financial aid/scholarship and the family contribution.
However they did listen and they had made some incorrect assumptions so they looked at things again and recalculated, and it was closer to what we were expecting.
Point being it was good that we had reached out to the financial aid people and had started some dialogue, and pressed them a bit on their calculations.
Good luck!
You have good points. We just went through my oldest son’s college application process last year. Along the way I heard many stories from several parents. I admit that my thoughts and feeling are a little influenced by them, but this still stuck on my mind.
None of them are parents of recruited athletes, but their kids are all brilliant. Two kids attended Caltech and eight kids attended MIT, but they all could not survive there. All of them developed the mental health issue. One committed suicide. Another one was lucky. He recovered but he wasted so many years to recover. I then realized that mental health is no joke. Even a lucky one may take 4-5 years to recover. The one committed suicide was a star football player in the high school, but I don’t think he was recruited. Nowadays those high achievers are very stressed. My son is majoring CS at UC, he is always doing homework. I am a little concerned. He realized in the hard way that high school and college are so much different.
On the other hand, my other friend’s daughter was recruited in volleyball by Johns Hopkins, but decided to attend Ohio Wesleyan. There she received all academic awards and set school records in volleyball. She graduated two years ago, and now going to the grad school. Her mom told me that her daughter did not want to struggle academically at Johns Hopkins. Although she would never know what would have happened if she attended JH, she thought she made the best choice.
My second son just applied ED1 via recruitment. He was never a bookworm like his brother. I know that it is not fair to compare him with his brother, but he doesn’t study much. He can not sit and study hours and hours. He was not interested to study, and did not study for ACT, but he scored 33. His English was 35. I asked him if he wanted to take another to improve, he did not want to. Knowing this guy, I knew that he would not survive the prestige schools. Like you said, it’s all depends on each kid.
That’s interesting. I was under the impression that I would have to wait to see what they came back with before starting that dialogue. I’ll give them a call today and see if I can get anywhere Thanks so much for the advice!
That is correct that when the need based scholarship package came back is when we really got into discussions but we did make contact in advance. I would say that before acceptance there is probably not too much to discuss other than the routine info though I would think you could call, explain where you are in the application process, and ask questions, mention concerns, etc. such as how is the 401k distribution treated or reported, etc. I believe Financial Aid typically look back 2-years to determine need base so it may not be a factor.
Good luck!
@Maplemel, just a note about guidance counselors. Ours, at a well-respected public school, also was not optimistic about the chances of ours for admission. GCs at many public schools have to counsel a lot of kids. Some see their job - not as directing the way to get into the best school with the best fit for the kid - but rather to make sure that all of the kids to whom they are assigned get into a college, any college. Our GC constantly told us to shoot downward, rather than upward. When I relayed coach conversations, the response was that “some coaches lie.”
The GC even went so far as to provide test scores of applicants who were admitted to various schools, but not for denials, deferrals or WLs. This statistic seemed strange to me. Assuming the Valedictorian high test scores with was admitted to his or her safeties, that made it look much harder to get into those schools than it actually was.
Suffice it to say, the GC was wrong in the admission prediction.
This is a really hard time, there is no way around it. It is stressful and can lead to obsessing. Try to focus on how you have improved the recruit’s odds. At some elite schools, all things being equal, you may have a 5-10% chance for admission. You have improved the chances of admission to 90-95%. Try not to obsess about the 5-10% chance of failure. There is nothing you can do about it anyway. Just remember that your kid’s chance of not getting in is about as good as the non-athlete’s odds of being admitted. The process stinks until it is over and your kid is settled, then it is a system with many redeeming qualities.
The NCAA does watch those jobs if they are work study. They make sure other work study students also get the cushy jobs or the same amount of work study aid if they have the same financial need. However, if they are just athletic department jobs, and open to all students, that’s okay for the athletic department to hire their own.
My daughter’s teammate kept her hs job of being a referee for hs and club teams and continued to make bank. In a weekend she could make $300-$400. Many of the team members also worked in departments around the school like communications (covering games), My 16 year old nephews are working a tournament this weekend and making $350. Each.
Really not a ton of variation except that we had to take an early distribution from my 401K in 2020 when my husband (a teacher) lost his pt job due to covid – penalty free, per the CARES Act – but it inflated our income, albeit on a one-time, only, basis. I’ve explained as much in the CSS Profile but nowhere really to factor that in on the NPC, other than to just leave it out entirely, and that gives us a much different number than when it is left in. Even if I go with the higher number, though, I still see nightmare stories on CC about this particular school diverging wildly from the NPC. Enough that we really just won’t rest easy until mid-December. It is what it is!
Thanks so much for the advice!