Should you incur substantial debt for that "dream" school? or an arts major?

<p>Just a quick reply - after 13 years of paying for a private school education (k-12) we explained to our son that he had to choose an affordable state school. He did, and now in his sophmore year he has realized the benefits. He'll graduate in 4 years debt free - we pay for his education and he works during the summer for his "fun money." The best part of this story? Because we were able to save so much on his college education, we are now buying him a condo near his college and he's excited about being a landlord (he's going to rent the extra rooms) and his first words were "can I paint and fix it up the way I want it?" Obviously, our many years of fixing and home improvement do-it-yourselfers paid off. IMHO I think he'll learn just as much in this experience as he would in any classroom!</p>

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<p>A wonderful accomplishment!</p>

<p>MTLVRMOM, what a great story. I wish most folks here on CC adopted your approach and had their kids attend a school that would result in a debt free education at the same time as not to compromise your retirement with high tuition. Bravo.</p>

<p>Congrats mtlvrmom! I agree it's great to be debt free! Your son will certainly have a wealth of choices open to him because of your financial responsibility. Also, I think the condo will be an awesome opportunity!</p>

<p>Thanks Blossom--great insight and tips (and thanks for your sympathy!). Yes, we kept the house all in her name and then wrote up a separate agreement of our ownership with an attorney. We didn't even think about the FA situation and assets when we did it that way. We were thinking more about other tax implications. </p>

<p>edad--I was able to stay "in-state" but it was a 6 hour drive home. I completely understand the need to leave home. The university that was within driving distance of my family home, would have been an incredible choice for my area of study (which I ended up changing anyhow!) but I decided I needed to grow up and go away. An excellent choice for me and one that I think in the long run meant more than the degree I got.</p>

<p>
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after 13 years of paying for a private school education (k-12) we explained to our son that he had to choose an affordable state school. He did, and now in his sophmore year he has realized the benefits. He'll graduate in 4 years debt free

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We did the opposite, and I think the results are equally good. DS and DD attended public school for free; both will/are attending a very good private university for 4 years. One will be debt-free; one will have $14,000 in student loans, maybe less if some more scholarships come through. I'm estimating that DS's education will cost us $70,000 - he could have gone to a large state school for free, but this splurge is a wonderful 4-year opportunity at a time in his life where it really matters. This is the time when he needs professors who are attentive, opportunities for research and mentorship, a diverse and eclectic peer group, and a chance to explore career paths. It'll be costly, but it's worth it. I still feel that taxguy comes down way too heavily on the side of cheap or free, and not strongly enough on the side of value.</p>

<p>Agreed, anxiousmom.</p>

<p>Aside from the unquantifiable value of a top-notch education, I cannot fathom a more boring life than one in which the most important decisions focus on saving for retirement.</p>

<p>Remember the adage: "You can't take it with you."</p>

<p>Bay notes," cannot fathom a more boring life than one in which the most important decisions focus on saving for retirement"</p>

<p>Response: Retirement is just one financial factor in life to fucus on. It may not be the most interesting thing for you,but , based on many people that I have met in my life,you will REALLY REGRET not paying attention to it.</p>

<p>You certainly don't want to have to continue working forever in order to support your lifestyle or have to live with your kids or live on some form of charity.</p>

<p>Funny how people are so different. My parents never offered to pay for college (I don't think they could afford it) and it never occured to me that they would. On the other hand it never occured to my parents that I would finance their retirement and it never crossed my mind that I would have to.</p>

<p>I would have but I also would have resented their poor planning.</p>

<p>Taxguy,</p>

<p>Thank you for your concern, but there is no need to lecture me on my retirement planning. Not that it is anyone's concern, but I am in fine shape in that arena.</p>

<p>But I would gladly sacrifice my comfortable retirement to see my child succeed beyond my wildest dreams.</p>

<p>Bay, I didn't mean to lecture you. I was just responding to your comment in general terms.</p>

<p>Most parents would gladly make sacrifices in order for their kids to be wildly successful. The catch is to know what guarantees making someone wildly succesful. Personally, I don't think that attending an expensive, name-brand school over that of a decent state university guarantees or even comes close to assuring success. In fact, based on the Princeton study, attending a top ivy doesn"t make anyone more successful long-term than that of attending a state university. Thus, why compromise a retirement for questionable results at best? Just a thought and not a lecture.</p>

<p>However, even with the above said, I certainly applaud your commitment to you kids.</p>

<p>taxguy,
Please back this statement with concrete evidence: Post #203: "I think it is sad that kids want to major in film from NYU while occurring 80k+ in debt, etc.</p>

<p>NYUmom -- all you have to do is read the NYU threads here to see what kind of debt kids are taking on to attend Tisch. It happens every year, fueled by NYU's loan-heavy financial aid packages.</p>

<p>My question was specifically addressed to taxguy - specifically the statement "and probably actually reduces their chances of making it in film".</p>

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<p>probably because the student will be tempted to go to law school to make $$$ to pay off student loans..having a large amount of student loans won't make you a worse actor, but you may not be able to afford the "struggling actor" years.</p>

<p>nyumom, I'm pretty sure taxguy meant that the heavy debt, and corresponding need to work to earn enough to make payments, would reduce the number of opportunities that the student could pursue out of school, since work in the arts for a new graduate tends not to be financially lucrative, and the most interesting or promising opportunities could be ones that did not pay particularly well.</p>

<p>NYUmom, Please investigate the movie business. </p>

<p>All I can say is that I have had numerous TV appearances and know folks who have worked or tried to work in movies and TV. In fact, my uncle, who was a famous composer and actor, lectured on making it in movies and shows.</p>

<p>From all that I have learned, people make it in movies primarily starting at the bottom of the rung. They might have been gofers or had some menial parts etc., and have worked their way up. Many, many times they have had to take jobs that don't pay well initially.</p>

<p>If a student has a large amount of debt,and I am solely referring to those student that have large amount of debt, their options become severely reduced. They can't afford to take low paying or even no paying jobs in order to get their foot in the door. Thus, they significantly reduce their options!</p>

<p>MY uncle is a good illustration. He received a full scholarship to University of Cincinnati Conservatory of Music. He had to work a LOT of years at very low pay playing piano for the auditions of other people.. After a number of years, he had his own plays and even made it in the movies. Had he incurred a lot of college debt, he wouldn't have had the option to take these low paying jobs.</p>

<p>This is why I would NEVER recommend a school such as NYU over a place like SUNY Purchase, or, even better, an in-state university for film IF the student has to incur substantial debt in order to attend a school like NYU. Admittedly, what I said may seem counterintuitive. Recommending a lessor ranked or lessor quality school over one that is deemed much better such as NYU does go seem to go against the grain especially with all of the hype about attending top schools here on CC. However, it seems to be the correct decision.
Now if the parents are paying the full tuition so that there is little debt, or if the student gets a big scholarship, this isn't as much of a problem.</p>

<p>I should also note that there is one other way to make it into movies and TV: know someone. There is a lot of nepotism in film and TV. Kids who have connections have a GREAT advantage over those that don't . This seems particularly true for camera work and for acting.</p>

<p>taxguy, Thanks again for bringing up this important topic. Even though it has been discussed before on CC, this has to be the definitive thread, and I hope it's preserved. Your arguments make perfect sense to me. If others don't agree, at least this discussion has gotten everyone thinking about the issue. My oldest D will graduate debt-free from UMCP next year. My younger D agrees with this principle and hopefully will retain that philosophy through the next year, as she researches schools and ultimately makes her decision.</p>

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This is the time when he needs professors who are attentive, opportunities for research and mentorship, a diverse and eclectic peer group, and a chance to explore career paths. It'll be costly, but it's worth it.

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I infer from this post #306 that these amenities can only be found at expensive private colleges, thus rationalizing the choice for high cost. I disagree and offer the opinion that these things can also be found at public institutions, perhaps more so than at some private colleges.</p>

<p>In support of lkf725's post, I offer anecdotal evidence from my older D: She transferred from an LAC to a large public U. Attentive professors: available at each. Opportunities for research and mentorship: better at state U. Diverse and eclectic peer group: a joke at her particular LAC, a reality at the state U. Chance to explore career paths: Much better at state U. As I said, one person's experience at two schools. YMMV (ur mileage may vary).</p>