Wow. If only you could win the lottery of life and be low income, black and Hispanic. The perfect trifecta for college admissions.
^How about rich and athletic?
Boy, these comments are starting to get a bit racist.
^ @doschicos I’m sure at @BSMDorBust knows that I was being sarcastic. We’ve been arguing all day. Or should I say, that is the dead horse we’ve been beating all day.
I’ve also noticed that many people like to argue that when a URM with lower stats gets in over an Asian 4.0 2400 SAT valedictorian, it’s usually because of interviews, essays, or some other subjective measure. However, if this is true, shouldn’t colleges have race-blind admissions since the person with better subjective things would supposedly still get in over the Asian?
@gearmom Actually the perfect trifecta would be rich, black, and Hispanic since top schools use need-blind admissions 
. And again people seem to be missing the point of the thread. I’m not even saying that URMs shouldn’t get an advantage; I’m just seeing if you should put it on your application if you think it will give you a boost in college admissions.
^Are you making this stuff up? And you know that Candidate A is swapped for Candidate B. Our Asian friend, hellokitty or whatever his name was, with the 34 ACT had a lower stat than his Hispanic acquaintance who had a 35.
@BMDorBust Oh I know YOU think that is the perfect trifecta. The magic ticket to ride.
And what should you do? If you have to ask you’ve missed some important character lessons at age 5.
@gearmom I wasn’t even talking about that thread (and I literally only commented once in that one so I don’t see how we we’re arguing “all day” about it) I meant in general, but if you want to bring it up, fine. The Asian guy in that thread had a better GPA, rank, and most importantly much more rigorous classes, so all things even, he probably should have got in over the Hispanic guy. However, no one seems to have answer against a race-blind admissions process. If the URM would have TRULY got in over the Asian guy, he should be able to do it when the admissions officers have no idea which is which, right?
@gearmom Also are you saying that URMs don’t get an advantage, so it doesn’t matter if people put it on the application? Again, that’s really what I wanted to figure out with this thread, no need to get hostile about it.
@BSMDorBust This is a perfect example. We don’t even know what majors they both had. Hellokitty was probably gunning for CS and his acquaintance could have been trying for Tibetan poetry for all we know. No one even factored that in. So in likelihood he didn’t take hellokitty’s spot because they were different majors. And unless your rank is 1 or 2, they don’t really care.
Post #29 You simply need to be honest. That is it.
@gearmom Do you have anything to say about race-blind admissions, so that these type of threads wouldn’t even exist? Also, as you pointedly mentioned earlier, “low income, black and Hispanic. The perfect trifecta for college admissions” implying that URM status isn’t really a big deal. So ethics completely aside, do you think people should do it to have an advantage in college admissions?
Interesting discussion. As an Asian parent, I struggled with this issue. I felt bad for my daughter that she is at a disadvantage (big or small) because of her parent’s race. As much as we all want to be politically correct, let’s face it, although not absolute, if you look at the threads of acceptances, one cannot help but notice that URM tend to get in with lower scores and grades. Again this is not absolute and we all agree that there are several factors that get entered into consideration. We all know it’s the truth and there have been several articles written about how Asians will need a higher SAT score to get accepted. And admitting this does not make anyone racist, nor does it diminish the accomplishments of blacks or hispanics or native americans.
After much thought, I actually have come to accept that it is actually a good thing to give a little edge to URMs, especially the ones that do not have the same opportunities as middle class to rich white and asian kids. If they are not given some consideration, how else can the compete with parents who are “in the know”, who send their kids to all summer camps, club sports, who can afford to pay for studies abroad, join competitions, etc? So, I’m okay with giving a chance to URMs. I’m actually also okay with rich blacks and hispanics also getting a little preference–at least it makes for a more diverse class. And I truly believe that the entire class benefits from racial diversity and diversity in culture and background, even if they are not poor. I have also come to terms with athletes getting a hook (as long as they can at least cope with the school’s academic rigor)–at least they are exceptional in something, and they give the school some recognition, especially if they win! What I cannot accept are the legacies–those kids did not contribute anything special to the school/class, other than their parents or relatives graduating from the same institution. If US universities can get rid of the legacy hook, and follow the UK Ivies (like Oxford and Cambridge, who will get insulted if you mention that your parents went to the same institution, and shout back at you, “so what!?”), I’ll be content enough that the world is at least trying to be fair…but alas, our institutions of higher learning are more money driven than their UK counterparts even if they actually have much larger endowments that they would not know what to do with all that money…!
I’d just like to mention that all of my responses have been to provoke discussion in order to answer the question of this thread best. No one really seems to be arguing on the side of ORMs, so I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate to incorporate arguments from both sides and see what the responses are. I don’t think I’ve been rude, but if I have come across as such in any way, I apologize.
Asians and whites come from a tradition of success. For generations, they have had family members go on to college and succeed. It is much easier to achieve when you’re following in the footsteps of someone else, and not paving the path for yourself. Regardless of income level, Hispanics and blacks don’t have that tradition of success within their culture to lean on.
@BSMDorBust
I get it. White people complain all the time about Affirmative Action and talk about how horrible and unfair it is… UNLESS they can exploit it somehow.
One of my white friends had an great-great grandfather who was born & raised in Italy, but lived Argentina for a few years before moving to the U.S. That was her only claim to being Hispanic, a pretty slimy one, too. Yet, on her application, she suddenly became completely Hispanic and made no mention of being white.
@kmaya13 It’s true. Typically the only people complaining about affirmative action are ORMs and whites who after being rejected from their top-choice colleges want to find something (someone) else to blame it on instead of realizing that for whatever they weren’t a good fit for the university while also choosing to ignore the struggles faced by URMs in getting to college. But then the second their great grandfather’s second cousin twice-removed was 1/8 mexican, no one is complaining. Seems silly that threads about URMs pop up all the time, but not over legacies and recruited athletes who are much less deserving of the boosts they get to their applications, especially the former. Literally all legacies have done is be born.
@giraffeinatree If a URM has rich parents, wouldn’t they be following in the footprints of success? Again this would give them access to plenty of resources, which is why I asked about high school discrimination. For rich URMs to be at a disadvantage at the high school level, something about their race would have to prevent them from actually attaining those resources. I find it hard to believe that URMs would feel discouraged about their status today, especially when they can see that being a URM actually gives them an advantage in college admissions. Do you have anything showing that they are somehow psychologically affected by not seeing more people like them in higher education? And is a “tradition of success” your only argument? If so, why can’t URMs follow what Asians are doing and take piano lessons, do a bunch of research, etc. (assuming that this is how Asians have created their own tradition). The blueprint is there for them to follow if they want, so if they decide to take a different route since “their tradition” says they shouldn’t, then you can only blame them. Are you saying that colleges should make up for URMs not doing what Asians have done to succeed? And if so, it seems like they’d only be making up for laziness or ignorance rather than actual racial discrimination. Also, you still haven’t refuted the argument that Asians are better qualified (again, not saying it’s actually true, just making a point).
@BSMDorBust Who says they don’t? But even the Hispanic kid with a 35 ACT gets marginalized and labeled undeserving and having stolen a spot from the Asian kid.
Although we seem to have shifted this discussion to whether or not URMs should get an advantage, I would like to list the arguments that have been made on both sides thus far.
URMs should get an advantage because:
-They are still strong students and are still outnumbered by even less deserving legacies, athletes, and celebrity children at these places.
-Money does not equal freedom from discrimination. Hispanics and blacks aren’t afforded the same opportunities. They are not nearly represented as much white people in business or government or as much as white people and asians in higher education.
-When blacks and latinos look at the student body at top-tier schools, they don’t see themselves in it, which is incredibly discouraging.
-If they are not given some consideration, how else can they compete with parents who are “in the know”, who send their kids to all summer camps, club sports, who can afford to pay for studies abroad, join competitions, etc? So, I’m okay with giving a chance to URMs. Rich blacks and Hispanics can also diversify the class.
-Asians and whites come from a tradition of success. For generations, they have had family members go on to college and succeed. It is much easier to achieve when you’re following in the footsteps of someone else, and not paving the path for yourself. Regardless of income level, Hispanics and blacks don’t have that tradition of success within their culture to lean on.
URMs shouldn’t get an advantage because:
-Rich URMs get an advantage without having to face the same hurdles, which lends itself to socioeconomic factors being more important in increasing diversity.
-ORMs may generally be more qualified.
-People like to claim that a URM gets in over an Asian because of interviews, essays, or some other subjective measure, but this means race-blind admissions would be beneficial since the person with better subjective things would supposedly still get in over the Asian. Essentially the truly best applicants would get in regardless of race.
-“Tradition of success” has no bearing since rich URMs are following in a footprint of success and can follow the ORM blueprint if they want since they have access to the same resources. This again is a reason for putting more emphasis on socioeconomic factors (why shouldn’t a poor Asian get an advantage too?).
Please add on if I missed anything.