<p>The Ivy League is a sports league. That's how it started. They are all in the Northeast and can compete against each other. Obviously schools like Stanford and Duke could not be in the Ivy League for geographical reasons if nothing else. Besides, I don't think that Columbia's basketball team really wants to play against the Blue Devils.</p>
<p>The Ivy league advertising campaign is a superb campaign. With a great campaign, you can persuade people in believing you in just about everything.</p>
<p>And please, stop ranking schools. Have you attended all of them? How are you qualified to rank them then? You're ranking, but USNR is in back of your mind when doing so. If USNR would tell you that Tulane is a top 10 school, you would rank Tulane somewhere in top 10, and you know it's true!</p>
<p>I never knew this but it is interesting to note how the Wikipedia article mentioned West Point (Army) and Annapolis (Navy) were at one point a part of Ivy league conference, if not only for football :D They dropped out shortly before formal organization. Imagine, Ivy League's greatest football rivalry not between Harvard-Yale but between Army-Navy. :D!</p>
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I may go back to my former policy of moderating these threads more vigorously to corral them together into one thread.
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Why not just instantly delete all threads that relate to ranking? We've all seen them before, and if anyone wants to see the rankings, they've got google. They can also use the search button because threads about rankings seem to occupy most of the "intellectual" talk on this forum.</p>
<p>Since CR SAT puts international students at a disadvantage, the most accurate ranking based on student quality uses math SAT. Just about everything else of value is correlated with student quality and the most valid index of student quality is SAT. </p>
<p>The Ivies all fall in the top 20 among LACs AND universities. Note that Cornell Arts and Sciences and Engineering fall in the middle of the Ivy League. Cornell Engineering is similar to Harvey Mudd and MIT in student quality</p>
<p>California Institute of Technology 770 800
Harvey Mudd College 740 800
Cornell Engineering 720 800
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 720 800
Harvard University 700 790
Princeton University 700 790
Yale University 690 790
Cornell Arts & Sciences and Engineering 690 785
Washington University in St Louis 690 780
Pomona College 690 760
Stanford University 680 790
Dartmouth College 680 780
Duke University 680 780
Carnegie Mellon University 680 780
University of Pennsylvania 680 770
Swarthmore College 680 760
Lehigh University 680 710
Columbia University in the City of New York 670 780
Rice University 670 780
Brown University 670 770
Northwestern University 670 760
Tufts University 670 740
Cornell University 660 770
University of Notre Dame 660 760
Amherst College 660 760
Williams College 660 760
Emory University 660 740
Carleton College 660 740
Vanderbilt University 660 740
University of Chicago 650 760
Johns Hopkins University 650 760
Claremont McKenna College 650 750
University of Southern California 650 740
Georgetown University 650 740
Wesleyan University 650 730
Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus 650 730
Bowdoin College 650 730
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 650 730
Washington and Lee University 650 720
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 640 740
Haverford College 640 740
Middlebury College 640 740
Wellesley College 640 730
Colby College 640 720
Davidson College 640 713
Vassar College 640 710
Brandeis University 630 730
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 630 730
Boston College 630 720
University of Rochester 630 720
Worcester Polytechnic Institute 630 710
Colgate University 630 710
Wake Forest University 630 710
Reed College 630 710
Bucknell University 630 710
Scripps College 630 700
University of California-Berkeley 620 740
Grinnell College 620 720
New York University 620 720
Case Western Reserve University 620 720
Macalester College 620 710</p>
<p>"Since CR SAT puts international students at a disadvantage, the most accurate ranking based on student quality uses math SAT. Just about everything else of value is correlated with student quality and the most valid index of student quality is SAT. </p>
<p>The Ivies all fall in the top 20 among LACs AND universities. Note that Cornell Arts and Sciences and Engineering fall in the middle of the Ivy League. Cornell Engineering is similar to Harvey Mudd and MIT in student quality"</p>
<p>What does this info have anything to do with this thread? You can't just keep ignoring Cornell's other schools to put it in a better light. How does crititical reading sat scores put schools with international students at a disadvantage? Most of these schools have about the same amount of international students. around 10 percent.</p>
<p>seriously you can't compare Cornell's individual schools to the whole of other schools and expect an accurate comparison. You want to do engineering do engineering, you want to do arts and science colleges do that.</p>
<p>Greens: I don't think you can actually numerically rank schools.
I just do it for fun.</p>
<p>I know the Ivies are great schools. It just ticks me off when people say that the Ivies are the BEST schools in the country that all non-Ivies are worse simply because they aren't Ivy Leagues.</p>
<p>does anybody say that??</p>
<p>I used to hate this whole deal too, ya know, the obsession with names.
But if most prestige-driven, poor-researched high schoolers ignore any school that's not in the Ivy League, schools that are just as great as any Ivy League school are protected from the rush of "I just wanna see if maybe I get in, even though I don't have the stats" kids.
Also, the ranking needs to stop. You may have your own opinion, but unless someone asks for it, we don't need another numerically based determination of merit.</p>
<p>Looking at universities outside the Ivy League, a prospective freshman might consider the level of undergraduate focus. Here is the percent fulltime undergrads at top universities:</p>
<p>Brown University 74.3%
Dartmouth College 71.9%
Cornell University 69.1%
Princeton University 67.8%
University of Notre Dame 67.1%
Carnegie Mellon University 62.1%
Rice University 60.7%
Vanderbilt University 57.9%
Emory University 57.3%
Washington University in St Louis 57.2%
Northwestern University 52.9%
Georgetown University 52.7%
University of Pennsylvania 52.7%
Stanford University 50.1%
Duke University 48.5%
Yale University 47.5%
Johns Hopkins University 47.2%
California Institute of Technology 41.4%
University of Chicago 41.1%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 40.7%
Harvard University 36.8%
Columbia University in the City of New York 34.1%</p>
<p>I think academics and rigor are more important than the focus on undergrads. All the Ivies are universities and if you want a ton of focus on undergrads, then go to a LAC, that's where they focus almost entirely on undergraduate studies. </p>
<p>OP, I don't understand you. The Ivy league is merely a football conference, not the 8 best colleges on earth, although they're all very good. Why do you want it "stopped"? I don't understand why some people are saying that other colleges should also be added to the league. It is an athletic conference.</p>
<p>"The Ivy League is a sports league. That's how it started."
CC should change Ivy League to Ivy Sport League. That will help to neutralize its implication</p>
<p>That makes no sense. The name for the league isn't "Ivy Sport League", it's simply "Ivy League", so there's no reason for CC to make up name for it. As for the implication that the schools in the Ivy league are exeptional, well, that's based on the fact that they're all ranked highly and have lots of top programs. But anyone familiar with the Ivy league knows and understands that it is an athletic conference. There's no reason to "neutralize its implication", it is what it is. If any of the 8 weren't in the league, they would still be considered top schools, just like how Stanford is considered a top school and isn't Ivy league.</p>
<p>if you are tired of hearing stuff about ivy league than just stop listening</p>
<p>stargazerlilies: A lot of people act like the Ivies are the eight best colleges on Earth. They are the ones who will automatically say that Dartmouth is better than Stanford because Dartmouth is an Ivy.</p>
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They are the ones who will automatically say that Dartmouth is better than Stanford because Dartmouth is an Ivy.
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</p>
<p>I have never seen such a post on cc. Please cite a source?</p>
<p>Having attended an "elite" school (Duke) and having a very bright child who does not (Kansas State University), what matters most is "fit" based upon individual circumstances. My daughter is an early admit candidate to a doctoral program in veterinary medicine, which is a tougher admit than medical school. She chose her undergraduate major (animal science) based upon the quality of the program and the probability that it would get her where she wanted to go. A school like Duke would have been less useful to her in pursuing her goal of being admitted to vet school because it has no such major nor would it have offered her the opportunity to work closely with animals as does the program at K-State. Please note that I am not commenting here about the overall quality of one school versus another; I'm merely making the point that the Ivy League schools and their non-Ivy counterparts don't work for everybody, including many kids who are bright enough to be admitted to them.</p>
<p>^^^Good post. My bright daughter had NO interest in any Ivy, Duke etc. She chose Rice over IU for vocal performance but IU was right up there.</p>
<p>Uh Rice is pretty up there with the Ivies and schools like Duke. It's considered a top school as well. </p>
<p>gbesq - Cornell has a top Animal Science undergrad program and one of the best Vet schools in the country, I think ranked #1 by U.S News. My friend is majoring in Animal Sci there and wants to go to the Vet school as well. It would be an excellent choice for your daughter to consider if she's applying now. Good luck!</p>