Sigh...college expenses are just out of sight.

Parents Forum
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<p>It appears that the sentiment on this thread and others is about 90% in favor of doing the fiscally conservative thing. And while I don't necessarily disagree with it, I would love to hear more from the minority side of this issue.</p>

<p>Son has been accepted EA at Stanford and got full tuition at Vandy and into Duke but unknown if a scholarship will be attached. Like other posters have mentioned about their kids, he has done absolutely everything we have asked of him for as long as we can remember. Obviously he got great grades and great test scores but it goes so much farther than that. He has held a job every summer since he was 14, HE made the choice to skip varsity golf this year to have a job during the school year to save up for college. He's done tons of volunteer hours and the list goes on :)</p>

<p>We don't qualify for financial need based aid so if Stanford is the school, all $53,000 will be from our combined efforts. Like everyone else the 529 plan is down 40%, the loss of home equity is sickening, etc... We've had the "sit down" financial chat so he is fully informed. He knows that he will have to get the max Unsubsidized Stafford loans ($27,000 total for four years), he knows that's a $300/mo. payment for 10 years, he knows he'll have to work every summer and at least 15 hours/week during the school year, he knows he won't be spring breaking it with his college buddies (at least nothing extravagant), he knows we won't have the $100,000 + we would have had to help him pay for grad school had he accepted Vandy's offer, he knows all the implications, at least the ones we can think of.</p>

<p>YET, he wants Stanford!!! Because he's worked his butt off to get it, is it our right/job as parents to say no? </p>

<p>Anyone similarly situated care to chime in? Best of luck to all! :)</p>

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<p>I think in this case it makes sense to take the full-tuition to Vandy. He will have a quality education there and many doors will be opened. Stanford at full price just doesn't make sense. JMHO!</p>

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<p>^^Momofknowitall, I'm in the exact same situation as you are, except I've got twins starting college in the fall.</p>

<p>And not to dig too deep into the abyss, I've got a third who is older who has special needs which are quite expensive.</p>

<p>When we found out we were having twins, we thought long and hard about it. It didn't come as a surprise that they would one day turn 18 and be off to college.</p>

<p>So rather than say "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it", we saved every penny, worked our tails off, and then saved more pennies. Due to our savings, we do not qualify for need-based aid either.</p>

<p>I think in the last 20 years we've been on three vacations, and they were merely long weekends. Never been to Europe. But we paid off our house 10 years ago.</p>

<p>Things aren't perfect, but life is good.</p>

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<p>Oh, MOmknowitall, I hurt for you. I can feel it. I feel this way each time one of my kids is looking at his choices. I want to be able to give them what they want in education regardless of cost. I have little in the way of qualms in not giving them cars, vacations, electronics, money,... but education. I want to give them the world.</p>

<p>Though I know many kids who are very happy with Vandy, I would try to make Stanford somehow work out. How, I don't know. WIsh you were your name!</p>

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<p>I've been trying to find a post by Evil Robot, a student who ended up taking a full ride at Vandy over a dream school, but I can't for the life of me find it. He posted a followup post-graduation while on his way back to California to take a dream job at Google, with enough money in the bank to do a fair bit of travel before starting work, AND with a master's degree, AND absolutely delighted with his college experience. </p>

<p>Momofknowitall, definitely worth finding and having your son read, because it's someone his age who made that choice. It'll give him a sense of the tradeoffs. He may still choose Stanford, but at least with eyes wide open.</p>

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<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/664006-full-ride-vandy-over-stanford.html?highlight=evil+robot+vanderbilt%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/664006-full-ride-vandy-over-stanford.html?highlight=evil+robot+vanderbilt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>not evil robots but another</p>

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<p>Thanks for the responses. I/we have read EvilRobot's posts and also the one just linked by Sax. There are clearly lots of reasons to go with Vandy and everyone has offered up excellent thoughts on the subject. </p>

<p>My point is simply, do we let an 18 year old, who has gotten into Stanford on his own doing make this decision? We could simply tell him no, we're not paying for Stanford, go to Vandy, you'll love it and that's the end of the story. BUT, should we? Is that the right thing to do? He's 18 next month, he'll be an adult on May 1st regardless of which offer he accepts, do we let him make the right/wrong choice and live with whatever consequences, good or bad, come from that choice.</p>

<p>I personally think he should take Vandy, for whatever that's worth, and I've told him my opinion.</p>

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<p>Well, you could always discuss compound interest and show him the chart on page 2 of 4.
Offer to throw in a certain amount each year :) Just a thought</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ffsllc.com/uploads/files/4/4_1.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ffsllc.com/uploads/files/4/4_1.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The point I'm making is that difference in money can buy many more things to aid his education and life.</p>

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<p>How many of you are making decisions based on your 401K's? Should we be doing that? We didn't have a 529 just savings in cash and CD's. I guess in hindsight that was a good thing.</p>

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<p>Momofknowitall, I went back to read your earlier post. You were intending to spend $100,000 on his graduate school? Why? It may be different depending on your field. But can't you get funding for graduate school? I know my DD is going to be getting about $20,000/year. She will of course TA.</p>

<p>Sometimes kids cannot articulate why they need to do what they feel is right. It isn't just about money. It is about them and their lives, and their paths can still take some interesting turns. Sometimes you just have to go for it, take that risk. If it were my child I would listen to him very carefully. That being said maybe you can help more with undergraduate but not graduate school.</p>

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<p>Lucy,</p>

<p>I'm not intending to spend $100,000 on his grad school, BUT if he chose Vandy, the money would be available whereas if he chooses Stanford he'll be completely on his own. I have a daughter who is 4 years behind him so all resources will be focused on her at that point.</p>

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<p>Is the differential $30K between Vandy and Stanford? Maybe he can come up with $10K, borrow $10K and you guys borrow $10K to make up the difference. We are all pitching in to pay for my son's private college.</p>

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<p>The difference for us, at least this year before Stanford raises tuition for years to come, is about $36,000. We feel we can come up with $40,000/year regardless of what our "EFC" is, the rest will be up to him (combination of Unsubsidized Stafford, savings from work and work during the school year.)</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, it's a stretch but it's something we can do as a family. Like some of the other posters have mentioned, there won't be any vacations or new cars in the near future but it seems to be worth the sacrafice.</p>

<p>Thanks to all for your responses.</p>

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<p>Momofknowitall- your post is a great example of what makes a lot of us crazy. If your son had done all of the same things, but you had spent every dime you make and never held a job, he would be going to Stanford full ride. Because you and he worked and saved, he may not be able to go.
It is past time to bring some common sense into financial aid. Perhaps a TRULY need blind full scholarship for everyone who gets above a certain SAT score- regardless of family income. Why punish momofknowitall's son just because his parents are responsible?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
do we let an 18 year old, who has gotten into Stanford on his own doing make this decision?

[/quote]

Everyone's different but to me there's a simple answer to this question -

[quote]

if Stanford is the school, all $53,000 will be from our combined efforts.
...
he knows we won't have the $100,000 + we would have had to help him pay for grad school had he accepted Vandy's offer
...

[/quote]

As long as your finances are part of the equation, then you need to be involved in the decision. Depending on your circumstances that involvement could be as little as telling your S he can do what he wants and you'll just provide as need be, as little as telling him you won't pay anything for Stanford since he has a full ride to V, or (more likely) something much more involved where the family needs to have frank and open discussions, truly understand the financials involved and their implications on payback, retirement hit, etc., determine the true value of one decision over the other (not just financial but also quality of education, location, lifelong desires, etc.), and make the best decision that fits the family's desires and capabilities. Like many other big decisions in life, there are compromises.</p>

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<p>I like ryegye's post # 30--
"Are we buying at the peak? Who says prices won't come down?"</p>

<p>Momofknowitall-- congrats to your son for all his acheivements. I have mixed feelings on ithis topic. I think managing your money & expenses is one of the hardest jobs (after raising kids) but teaching your children to learn it is even harder as evidence by all the young people who struggle w/ credit card debt (80% of America?-- just guessing). My oldest sister got into her dream school but got a full ride to small LAC --third tier. There was no choice back then-- you go full ride & you succeed in life. I paid my own way--b/c there was no choice. 2 yr com college, 2 yr at dream school-- my own $$. My only regret is that I chose a major for the potential of earning money when in reality I should have gone w/ my better skills-- english, history, communications.<br>
Son will definitely bloom where planted if he can follow his passion fo studies. Then use the money saved for GRADUATE school at Stanford! :)</p>

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<p>"But when the kid graduates, they'd probably think nothing of taking out a $20K+ loan for a new car. At least they're getting more for their money with the college investment as long as they keep it reasonable." </p>

<p>Well that depends a great deal on the institution, their cost, and the field wherein which the kid is planning to study. </p>

<p>Although for many buying that 20,000 car is right out when finish their education as the money involved there is considerably more than the price of most reasonable cars (unless these cars are Bugatti Veyrons or etc). At my current posting for example the new cars are largely owned by the administrators and a few faculty. The faculty cars are in various states of lingering death, and the student cars the lingering undead. </p>

<p>Concerning the concept that education prices will come down, not too probable until there is a political hue and cry about the various influences which have brought us an average 6%+ yearly increases in tuition and fees. </p>

<p>Within academe that's one of the very gross dichotomies which is currently developing. State institutions are as a whole are expecting cutbacks of various degrees, and some elite schools have taken a soaking on their investments and endowments. But because of the poor economy some schools (especially the state U's and CC's) are expecting increases in enrollment as the economically dislocated look to education as an alternative. </p>

<p>The seminal change here is that those who will be entering under these conditions are quite aware of the detrimental effect of high tuition and the attendant debt/costs. This will now be a difficult set of problems for academe to resolve. Academe will be simultaneously experiencing cutbacks, student increases, and a population which will be very disinclined to accept the same old games and rationales for high collegiate costs. </p>

<p>Essentially academe will have to address these issues or they could find themselves dealing with a large contingent of potentially adversarial or even resentful group of students and parents.
Already some manifestations of that condition seem to be appearing but at this point largely confined to conduct resultant from overall economic frustration and not yet attributable to overt frustration with academe costs and etc. </p>

<p>The interesting aspect of this situation is that it could be the ideal time for parents and students to really pressure our esteemed leadership for more equitable policies regarding collegiate costs and student funding. Congress, the USDOE and the states could claim there is no money (which is true) but the moment more funds go to the corporate edudebt lenders, trophy buildings or inflated administrative salaries they will be in a politically indefensible position...</p>

<p>It could be a interesting year..</p>

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<p>Yes, we should be taking depleted 401Ks into consideration, just as we should consider the stability of job situations, what we know about the possible needs to support elderly parents and the other financial realities. Doesn't mean that the OP's family still won't pick Stanford, but doing so without considering the full picture would be foolish.</p>

<p>And, after all, this isn't a choice between cheese and chalk -- they are both fabulous schools, and a bright kid (which the OP's child undoubtedly is) will surely make the most of whichever school is chosen.</p>

<p>Me, personally? I'd rather have the $100K in pocket ready to subsidize grad school or professional school, and if that was unnecessary, great. But I know a whole lot of really smart kids who graduated from Ivy League and similar schools who are now taking out big, big loans to finish law or medical school. While there are lots of fellowships that pay pretty much the full cost if you're going to grad school in biochemistry, that isn't particularly true of professional schools, and grad students in the humanities often have very marginal funding that doesn't really cover living expenses and PhD programs that take many years.</p>

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<p>It has been mentioned how going to a community college first can save quite a bit of money and it can. I have nothing against community colleges, I know several including a couple in my particular major who have gone that route. But you should be careful and make sure it is the right choice. For me, it is not. I knew exactly what I wanted to major in when I graduated from high school. Been almost two years now, and that is exactly what I am studying. If I had gone to a community college first, sure I would have saved a ton on tuition for the gen-ed classes. BUT I would have added two years to the time it will take to get my degree. My program is 2.5 years plus at least a semester, most likely 2 semesters added to the front end. The fastest you can get through the program is 3.5 years really. Well, if I went community college first for 2 years, I would still have 3.5 years to finish. Instead, I will get out in 3.5 years total and can have a Masters by the end of year 6.</p>

<p>I'm sure my field is not the only one like that.. Just thought I'd add that in...</p>

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<p>Momofknowitall, first of all congratulation to that Stanford EA. </p>

<p>I would visit the two schools during their admitted student week first. Take the money away and ask your DS which school he will pick. Ask for detailed reason for his choice. After that, you all decide if the "reason" is worth extra money or not.</p>

<p>Last April, our DD was leaning pretty strongly about another school first. It would have costed us at least 15K/yr more. One that we could not afford that much and two her reasons for the other school did not worth the extra per our opinion. So, she went to Stanford. Now, She is LOVING it there. </p>

<p>The super nice Spring weather during the admitted student week definitely helped. </p>

<p>Sounds to me that you could make Stanford work but that requires cuts in some other areas. Many parents, including us, struggle very hard to pay the school bills. It is really personal so I wish you and your son the best. As many have stated, either are very top schools for educational purposes.</p>