Sign of the Times [NYU organic chemistry course]

There are a lot of reasons for this.

  1. You have to submit your medical school application during the spring of Junior year. A lot of pre-meds haven’t finished taking their required courses, yet. And they may not have had the time to study for the MCATs.
    a. Most pre-meds try to spread their difficult classes to try to even the workload, so they can attain the highest possible grades. That contributes to why they aren’t ready to apply so early.
  2. Medical schools want to see extra-curricular activities like research, working in the medical field, and volunteering. Many pre-meds use the gap year to complete those activities and study for the MCAT.

Most students these days enter medical school 1-2 years after they finish college.

3 Likes

Agreed!

I went to a top LAC (not Swarthmore) and even this was discouraged. Students very rarely took more than 1 lab per term in any term. I never did.

1 Like

It’s probably ok to do at a school like Harvard, where most pre-meds are likely have a 3.9 GPA. :slight_smile: All they have to focus on is acing the MCAT.

1 Like

I hear what you are saying because it makes sense. However, in reality, there is almost no relevance.

1 Like

A lot of them could be left out. I know this from experience. As I mentioned upthread, I was never a premed, and only decided to go to medical school a couple of years after graduation. So I lacked 4 of the courses on the required list. I went and talked to the dean of admissions to get his recommendations on where to enroll to fulfill the missing classes, and he waived them on the spot saying something along the lines of “You won’t really need those classes anyway, and I can tell you are a strong student, so I will just make a note in your chart that you are exempt.”

2 Likes

Wow! Does that happen anymore?

Probably not anymore! This was the 1990s. But I still think those courses aren’t needed. (Also I didn’t have any doctor shadowing hours.)

1 Like

A student always has to get a first internship or first relevant job during college, before they have much relevant past work experience, but that does not mean such positions are primarily the result of having the pinnacle of highest GPA. There are still numerous other factors besides just GPA when initially reviewing applicants – whether the candidate has desired/required skill set to be successful in position, planned major, experience in group projects at college, recommendations/connections, ECs/activities, etc. After getting past the initial resume/screen, internships/first jobs typically have interviews, sometimes full day interviews.

1 Like

So specifically, what do you think should be required courses for admissions to medical schools?

1 Like

Here’s my list.
1 HS Biology- so you can sound smart talking to a scientist
2 HS General Chemistry- so you can identify the chemical structure
3 HS Math. No one uses calculus. You can learn stats on your own if you want. Plus, medical journals have all of statistics already calculated with p values :slight_smile: You just have to know how to interpret them yourself.
4. Organic chemistry - not relevant
5. Physics - not relevant
6. Biochemistry - can be relevant depending on your specialty. But overall, it isn’t. It is usually a medical school class during your first 2 years.
7. Microbiology - same as 6
8. Computer Science. completely irrelevant. But a good typing class would be much more useful.
7. English- nice to be able to write clearly and concisely. Apparently, a lot of physicians must have skipped that class- especially the portion that deals with grammar rules.
8. Foreign language- nice to know but not imperative.
9. Genetics, sociology, and psychology- not sure why they are even on the list.

1 Like

D18 remains alive and well with a high GPA. I can’t imagine my D18 was the only one taking two sciences, including lab(s), at a time. For multiple semesters.

2 Likes

By the same logic, before students are admitted to Harvard and other elite schools those students have already demonstrated outstanding qualifications and high probability of academic success. So why is it troublesome or surprising that almost all of these outstanding students receive good grades? Do you have any evidence that the grades received by these students do not accurately reflect their level of mastery of the material? If not, then is it really “grade inflation?”

The medical schools seem to think that Harvard, etc. students are qualified, despite what you term as “grade inflation.” Are you in a better position than these medical schools to determine if the grades on which these med schools rely accurately reflect the level of mastery, or whether they are artificially “inflated?”

It all depends on your kid and the school she attends.

Good question. Maybe something along these lines:
3 classes bio. I don’t really care which ones, but at least 1 should be upper level and at least 2 should have labs.
2 classes chem. Maybe an intro chem plus 1 term of orgo, but that orgo can be “applied orgo for premeds” if desired.
Statistics 1 class
Psychology 1 class
English at least 1 writing-intensive English class.

Required experience: Either shadowing+ volunteering + research or an equivalent number of paid hours working as a grunt in a nursing home (the skills I gained as a nursing home grunt are skills I use to this day as a doctor.)

Extra credit: fluency in a language other than English. Especially if native or near- native ability.

Anybody else have other ideas?

I must be a little more jaded than you.

1 Like

From the patient perspective, I’d add some oral communication classes ; )

1 Like

So you believe entry to medical school should be out of high school vs out of college?

That’s definitely important. And more important IMO than the pre-requisite classes. The only exception would be those medical students wanting to become pathologists or radiologists.

1 Like

Oh this!!! I swear nothing has hampered me in my career as much as my inability to type! (In high school I was discouraged from taking it, “You don’t want to BE a secretary, you want to HAVE a secretary.” LOL

She attended Michigan. And her peers were taking pretty much the same classes too. My D also received two minors, one in Math.

And I’ll bet @momofboiler1 's D, who studied chemical engineering at Purdue, IIRC, had to take two science classes at a time.