Seems to work for other countries…
Engineering is a different animal.
Engineers aren’t striving for 3.7+ GPAs as a pre-requisite to gain entry into their chosen profession.
Don’t forget the many BS/MD programs in the US!
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I think they sort of are. Aren’t they?
Yes she most certainly did, sometimes even three of four, every single semester. And she’s managed to keep her GPA high enough that she would be competitive for med school based on the tables people have shared here ; )
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Mine certainly has been striving for a high GPA, as have her peers.
They are. But most are essentially guaranteed admission to medical school. Your performance in those pre-requisite classes is really not determinative of whether you will progress, since almost everyone in those programs does well. In some programs, taking the MCAT wasn’t even required. Of course, there are exceptions.
I’m looking at the flowchart from my D21’s CA public university, for pre-vet, which I assume you would agree, needs a 3.7+ GPA for vet school? Unfortunately, the school doesn’t have a flowchart for pre-meds, just pre-vets.
There are multiple quarters where the pre-vet student must take multiple science classes at the same time.
Yes. You can load up on the science classes with lab, which are typically the hardest, take the most time, and are usually considered the weed out classes for the university. It’s going to be a lot more work, but you get them out of the way. But is that benefit (getting it out of the way) worth the risk (that you don’t do well academically)? Pre-meds have a very small cushion when it comes to grades. What if one or both of your science professors is as rigorous as Dr. Maitland Jones? Remember, there are no redos if you made the wrong decision. To me, the benefit doesn’t exceed the risk. However, most of it depends on the student and the school.
You also want to factor putting in the effort to do research, volunteer at a hospital, and show commitment to the field of medicine. That also takes a lot of time. So the overall strategy is that it is better to pace yourself as a pre-med. I guess a lot of them are following that strategy so well that the majority of matriculating medical students in the US take an additional 1-2 years after college before they start their medical studies.
Med school admissions has been changing rapidly the last few years and more and more schools post a list of recommended courses instead of required courses.
NYU Med School’s course requirements for example:
Premedical Coursework
NYU Grossman School of Medicine does not have prerequisites. However, we recommend the following premedical courses:
- inorganic chemistry, organic chemistry, and biochemistry with lab
- general biology with lab
- general physics with lab
- statistics
- genetics
- English
We consider courses completed at schools of dentistry, nursing, veterinary medicine, or pharmacy as part of your application materials but do not provide credit for such courses.
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That has been the norm for quite awhile now. My daughter started med school in 2012, and in her class only 27% were there straight from UG IIRC, as was my daughter.
That is true. But the current MCAT tests for aptitude among the following subjects: General Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, General Biology, Biochemistry, Physics, Psychology, and Sociology. So even if pre-requisite classes aren’t required, a medical school applicant will need to take those classes in college; so he can achieve a high score.
Extracurricular impact is paramount. There’s always an academic threshold to even be considered as a serious applicant: they want to be sure you can thrive in a rigorous environment…
I’m not saying that. It’s always great to have a broad level of knowledge and experience before becoming a physician. But as a matter of importance in a clinical physician’s daily work experience, the premed class requirements are pretty archaic.
There are a lot of other countries where medical students do come straight from HS, so it is acceptable elsewhere. I assume those physicians do well enough without the basic science and liberal arts backgrounds.
I think the US medical community would veto any attempt to shorten the medical training process. It goes against tradition, and it would make the field less prestigious by relegating it to being more like a glorified trade/craft. It also narrows the difference between a doctor and PA/NP.
I think you can go straight to medical school from HS in China, India, and Pakistan as well.
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Engineering is a completely different situation from med school. For example, a kid with a 3.5 GPA might not be admitted to any med school and choose to work in a different profession. In contrast a engineering grad with a 3.5 GPA is likely to pass initial GPA screen at the overwhelming majority of companies and is likely to gain employment in desired profession.
One can see examples by looking at career outcomes of engineers at not super selective public colleges where average GPA of engineers is <= 3.5. Not only do they have a high rate of employment in desired field, median salaries are typically quite close to salaries at more selective private colleges with much higher average GPAs.
For example, Purdue’s average GPA was reported to be 3.15 in 2019. Engineers might be lower GPA than the overall average. The vast majority of Purdue engineering grads likely have <3.5, yet salary starting salary and employment stats for Purdue grads were similar to Ivies and MIT, including Ivy+ colleges with much higher average GPAs. Specific numbers are below for Mechanical Engineer:
Purdue 2021 – Average = $80k, 5% seeking employment
Cornell 2021 – Average= $79k, 4% seeking employment
Yale 2021 – Average = $76k, 3% seeking employment
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You are way over-generalizing. None of the docs I know did any of this at our undergrad institution. Many of us were Chem , Bio, BME, etc etc. The kids you describe existed–but were weeded out. Being challenged was cool, and we all strove to learn as much as possible. After I was in med school, with kids from many different schools, they were almost entirely of the same mind: challenge-seeking, collaborative, love to read and learn everything they could. I doubt it is limited to my undergrad and med school(which happened to be the same place).
Just because it is acceptable to do it differently in other places does not make it a better method. I have met many docs who grew up and were trained overseas–as they try to get certified here. It does not always go well, and many have voiced serious concerns about their lack of pre-degree training compared to US counterparts. The US med schools should certainly not be trying to curtail the rigorous premed and in-med school curriculum, IMO.
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Absolutely agree: The vast majority of my premed cohorts did this, two science lab courses per semester for multiple semesters, and the med students I know now at the same school as well as other schools do this: it is not hard if you have the aptitude and organizational skills, and with so few med school spots, it should select for the highest aptitude and skills, shouldn’t it?
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Many docs here are being followed by a scribe. A great position for someone doc-shadowing. Also, there is speech to text software that works surprisingly well. 
It’s all relative.
Missing out on chemistry and biology lab and not knowing how to titrate acids and bases or extract DNA from a cell because you didn’t take the class in college is unfortunate
How about 10-20 years into your career as physician? Is it bad that a surgeon can’t interpret a EKG, a cardiologist can’t suture a wound, a neurologist can’t read a CXR, and a radiologist can’t use a stethoscope properly? And for a cardiac arrest, only the ER doc, intensivist, and a maybe the trauma surgeon are the only physicians who remember how to run a code properly? All of this happens to physicians once they are done with their training.
The fact is that it’s inevitable that people forget much of what they learned if they don’t consistently use it. And since medicine is very specialized, it is understandable that a surgeon never reads an EKG, a cardiologist never sutures, and a radiologist never examines patients. They will all lose those acquired skills- skills that were learned much later than college.
So why is there an outcry that a physician isn’t learning how to mix chemicals in a lab, understand the specifics of cellular reproduction, calculate the potential energy of a falling object, recite all of the Kreb’s cycle, or learn to integrate a complex formula? None of these skills are relevant to the practice of clinical medicine.
I would rather my surgical colleagues remember how to interpret an EKG correctly than remember how to determine the pKa of an acid because there is an infinitely greater chance he will need to do so, especially when no one else in the hospital is around.
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