We’ve gone over things again and are now thinking 50K a year. There’s been such a great response on this thread (thank you all!!) I’ve been going over the responses with her. There’s some good new suggested schools to look into, and some ideas we need to explore more (honors college, expanding search farther east)
Right now she’s really big on Carleton and St Olaf. She’s been in contact with the coaches and learned a lot about the schools, so that’s also fueling the enthusiasm! There’s also direct flights to Minneapolis from San Diego which is great.
A family friend in medicine suggested Austin. D is really hoping for snow, so I think she’s hesitant to look in Texas. I’m putting several in Texas on the list though, there are many good options. Thank you for the info.
When you visit Carleton and St. Olaf, consider swinging by Gustavus. It’s not that far from Northfield. Good premed program, lots of merit aid. Attracts some bright students as they give out 10 full-tuition merit scholarships per year. Great study abroad opportunities. I know doctors who did undergrad there and were very well prepared. I echo the advice that for premed it is best to be in the upper 10% (or at least 25%) of the class in terms of entering stats. Much better to be big fish in small pond. I went to Carleton and got an excellent education, and did get into med school, but knew a couple of people at Carleton (including my then-boyfriend) who failed to get into medical school. Bright students, but ended up in bottom 1/3 of class because everyone so bright there.
Regarding Carleton, I do know that back in the day it was sometimes difficult for grads to get into med school because of lower GPAs (harder to get good grades at Carleton compared to others). I knew of a student who took some post-grad courses to bring up their GPA before getting into med school.
But that is very dated info. It may be different now and med schools may be more aware; I don’t know about the experience of any recent med school applicants.
You’re welcome! Yeah, 50K has to be your budget if you’re going merit-only aid at the T25-50ish LACs, since the merit scholarships usually top out at around 1/2 the cost of tuition, which is usually ~30K.
My S23 is all over the place. He is interested in engineering (mostly big schools) but wants to keep doing his sport and is definitely D3 rather than D1 material ;), so we’re trying to figure how to make that work: LAC with 3:2 engineering program? LAC and masters afterward? State flagship + club sport? I have a whole separate post on that if anyone is interested.
Also, I 100% agree with @fiftyfifty1. I’m also an MD who has served on my state flagship’s medical school admission committee (and have also posted extensively on that if you want to search my old posts.)
My advice to prospective med students is always: go to undergrad where you’re the smartest kid and can get the top grades, and take the merit $ and save your funds (and/or minimize your debt) for med school. I’m also an Ivy league undergrad and have always maintained that that made it harder, not easier, for me to get into med school since the grading curve was so hard (although that was way back in the dark ages before so much grade inflation.) Being on the med school admission committee validated my suspicions: at least at my state flagship, NO one on the ad com cares about undergrad name or prestige.
Finally, please DO NOT let your daughter fall too much in love with Carleton until you run the NPC or even better, ask fin aid to do a pre-read. If she’s a serious recruit, they will. (D21 was also a recruited athlete, so we have experience on that front, as well.) Carleton was also originally on her list since I thought they did more merit aid, so it was already painful enough to take it off the table before she had mentally committed there. It would have been far worse to have done so any later in the process. And if you’re from CA with a rental property and a second home, it’s unlikely that you’ll qualify for any need-based aid, and their merit aid truly is limited to 2K/year for National Merit.
Agreed that things may have changed at Carleton, my experience was more than 2 decades ago. At the time, Carleton had a reputation for stricter grading (no grade inflation) compared to other schools. Not sure if that is still true.
In addition to Gustavus Adolphus, you might want to consider the College of Saint Benedict’s as well. It’s about 1h20m from the Minneapolis airport, per Google.
Beloit in WI isn’t entirely rural, as the town has a population of about 36,000, but I think it’s worth considering. It’s also 1h17m from O’Hare in Chicago.
Another place that’s not rural but might be worth considering is Wheaton. It’s suburban (suburb of Chicago, 33m from O’Hare) and I’ve heard that it offers a very rigorous academic environment.
Adding to the not-rural list is Lake Forest in IL. It’s on a wooded campus outside of Chicago but the proximity leads to a lot of experiences that a big city offers as well. Biology is one of its largest majors and the university has been commended for its innovation. And it’s 31m from O’Hare.
I’m going to throw in Valparaiso University, too. It’s about 1h15m from the airport in Chicago and in a town of about 33,000. But there’s a big focus on the health professions there, and the size is what your D was asking for, too.
College of Idaho. Biology is one of its more popular majors, and it’s about 30m from Boise’s airport. The town’s population is about 55,000 so not rural, but it’s not a big city either.
And as a general FYI, it’s a 4-hr flight from San Diego to Chicago.
I’d second @fiftyfifty1’s comment to consider Gustavus as a possible college for pre-med. My wife --a physician-- was a chem/bio double major there back in the middle ages. But learn how to make lefse before hitting campus and becoming a "Gustie " or at least find out what kind of food that is and how to use a rolling pin!
I’m a Carleton grad (English/NOT a physician) but our daughter graduated Carleton in 2020 as a bio major with a minor in neuroscience. She is in med school and doing extremely well - was solidly prepared by her classes. She loved the close contact with faculty, paid research projects, but bemoaned that Carleton offered only calculus-based physics classes that she needed.
Gustavus offers non-calculus physics. Our daughter’s best high school friend opted for Gustavus instead of Colby College, did well, engaged in research at Gustavus. and she now also attends a different med school from where our daughter goes.
My minor beef with Gustavus is the number of students there with cars (Carleton banned students from having cars when I was there) and the long-standing animosity that St. Peter’s townies exhibit toward Gustavus students. I’ve never understood why, nor does my wife. So Gusties often seem to drive to Mankato for entertainment.
When visiting Carleton, stop at Dacie’s House for cookies. Back when Dacie was alive (born in 1884), she and her house were my home-away-from-dorm.
Oh, and be sure to run Carleton’s net-price calculator, and don’t forget to apply for either the Strong or Fritch scholarships that the college offers-- separate from need-based aid. The application is so simple but required in order to be considered. Our daughter received a Fritch ($10,000 annually) during all four years.
Going back to the original criteria, what is the draw of a rural campus?
I ask this because rural areas are not well served by airports so these priorities are in conflict.
So, just wondering what about a rural campus is appealing. I went to Bryn Mawr which is in the outskirts of Philadelphia. Even though it is definitely not rural, many student mostly stayed on the campuses of Bryn Mawr and Haverford. There are quite a few suburban campuses with a defined campus perimeter that doesn’t meld into the surrounding neighborhood.
Another thing to note is that rural campus politics may not reflect the politics of the surrounding area, especially at more elite schools. A state school like Texas State in San Marcos likely has a more conservative student body than a college like Carleton.
(It came as a bit of a shock to me that both my kids wanted to attend college in cities. I guess when your kids grow up in a vibrant city it is difficult to imagine moving to a rural area.)
Thank you both for your responses, it’s very appreciated. I’m going to go over all of these responses with her.
@fiftyfifty1 We will look into Gustavus, thank you for the idea. Your expert advice makes a lot of sense for sure.
@UpNorth2019 your expert advice is much appreciated! I did tell her not to “fall in love” as we are early in the process. I’m already leaning towards St Olaf or others being a better fit because of the advice I’ve gotten here. Also, D really wants to dual major in Spanish (she’s fluent due to immersion school since 1st grade) and Carleton doesn’t offer that. Most other schools we have looked at do.
This forum is great, I can’t thank you all enough!
Carleton appears to offer a major in Spanish, as well as the opportunity to combine this with a major in biology:
As a general consideration, the colleges most conducive to completing a double major while meeting premed requirements are those with especially flexible curricula, such as Amherst, Hamilton, Grinnell and Smith.
We were at $40k. Now $50k. No qualification for need….there’s no reason to look at Carleton.
In my opinion, your search should only include schools that can possibly get you to $50k and must include a couple schools that 100% can do so in case the other hopefuls like all the schools listed don’t don’t get there.
My daughter wanted to apply to Cornell and Gtown. But I talked her out of it bcuz they have no merit aid. We were full pay so what would be the point? That’s the same for you with Carleton since you state you will not qualify for need aid.
Her desired school was American. It had potential to meet our price point. Potential but the merit provided didn’t get us there. That’s what all these schools are for you - possible - like St Olaf.
So they are great as long as you also have some 100%definite….hence the public Honors colleges.
But there is zero reason to pursue schools like Carleton given your financial desires.
Have you looked at bigger schools with residential Honors Colleges? It can provide a small bubble within a bigger school with academically engaged students, and have a better chance at merit. We know someone who turned down Bowdoin to go that route and ended up super happy.
This is the assured 100% option - a Miami of Ohio for example - in regards to rural. A Kansas…or numerous other suburban, rural and other schools that would assuredly come under $50K, $40K and in some cases low $20s.
As you have indicated, Carleton’s fine print seems somewhat discouraging to students who would like to double major, at least relative to the policies of many other colleges: