Small vs Large School re: party atmosphere?

Parents Forum
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<p>I went to PSU. I suppose I was a moderate drinker while there – really, compared to most kids, I was a light drinker. Yes, I drank at least a few times a week, but most of the time, it was under control and I got buzzed but not drunk. Even the kids I knew who drank heavier – the vast majority of them still balanced out the partying and studying very well. If they had a lot of work or an important test, they didn’t go out - or they’d go out but control themselves because they knew they had to get up the next day and study, or go to class.</p>

<p>As for drinking and driving - no one had to drive around the PSU campus. It is big but walkable. We walked home from parties, no problem. It’s a safe town, too - I walked home alone at 3 am many times without a problem or worry. </p>

<p>So you can partake of the party atmosphere as much or as little as you want. At a place like PSU, you’ll always find someone who has common interests and a common attitude toward the work/party balance.</p>

<p>EDIT - just read SteveMA’s post above. Agree with him totally!</p>

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<p>While it is true that you will be able to find partiers at most schools, choosing to live in substance free dorms will help a student find more like-minded people. In addition, he/she is likely to have an easier time avoiding the loud, party atmosphere that can be bothersome to sober folks.</p>

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<p>I just want to reiterate that I am not trying to find a dry campus, or even make sure my S keeps away from frats or parties. </p>

<p>I do think that there is something to be said for a campus culture. And when I have had contacts in administration at a couple of LACs tell me that things are way different these days, that binge drinking is the norm at many schools, it gives me pause. I even had a friend tell me he discouraged his D from one of these schools because of the drinking atmosphere and this friend is one of my wildest friends and drinks more than anyone I know!</p>

<p>I know that no one will put a gun to my S’s head anywhere. That he can find partiers anywhere. That there are more laid-back friends to be had everywhere.</p>

<p>But being an introvert, I do believe that it may be easier to find your niche on some campuses moreso than others. That is the intent of my original post.</p>

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<p>I haven’t been able to read through the thread, but I wanted to comment on substance-free housing. Just don’t do it. Especially with freshmen. IME, at a very large party school, those in substance-free housing are often there because their mom and dad made them choose that option and are often some of the most wild people I’ve ever met. </p>

<p>It’s really, really not hard to find people who don’t do x, y, or z even at a party school. I’m an introvert who just doesn’t “do” parties so I understand your S’s concerns.</p>

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<p>I think a lot of parents have the same concern. I was thinking the same thing as romanigypsyeyes said - thinking that some of those kids migh be there because their parents made them - which could make it worse.</p>

<p>Maybe one of the things to consider is if a campus has the appropriate clubs or organizations that your son is interested in - so he can find liked minded people and therefore establish a group of friends quickly that he will feel comfortable with. I think when you first get on a campus the peer pressure might be huge and if you can somewhat quickly establish yourself in a “group” then it is easier to stand your ground.</p>

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<p>Wow! I would have never thought of that. I didn’t think parents would have any say in their kids dorm choice. So, you’re saying substance-free dorms are filled with alcoholics, then?</p>

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<p>some of those kids are there because as a condition of attending college, their drug counselor, therapist, and parents have all made the kid live in sub free dorm. Doesn’t make the kid sober; just makes it uncomfortable for everyone else.</p>

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<p>You can do parties, but know how to behave. You cannot avoid company you whole life. It is like somebody is saying that I will not go out to dinner because I will definitely overeat. Yes, you will, but only if you want to. Free choices! It is valuable to learn how to make the good ones for yourself, including how much you can drink (yes, it is also learning experience) as everybody is different. Drinking does not have to be negative experience for appropriate age adults. Those who learn how to do it responsibly enjoy it without ruinning their lives.<br>
Choosing school based on amount of drinking poarties might backfire as drinking parties are absolutely everywhere. Maybe it is better when the fact is very well known, then it can trigger the right conversation, which may or may not help. Again, cannot watch your kid 100% of the time and even those who go to their home town UG and live at home instead of dorm, even these can get into trouble if they are seeking it.</p>

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<p>@familyof3boys- No, I didn’t say that at all. I do know of students whose parents would only pay if the child was in substance-free housing. The parents think that will keep them from doing whatever they please. There are some students who are in substance-free because they want to be but I find just as many, if not more, students in regular dorms who don’t drink than in sub-free housing. Many of those in sub-free housing were “wild” in high school and that carries over to college.</p>

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<p>surfcity–I think your friends in admissions are exaggerating the drinking culture on any campus. Binge drinking, while it happens, certainly is NOT the “NORM” anywhere. By norm, that would mean most students partake in binge drinking. Now, maybe your admissions friends have a different definition of binge drinking but most commonly accepted definitions do not mean that most students are like that. Sure, plenty of kids get drunk on the weekends, but that is not the same as binge drinking (20-30 drinks/night type drinking). Heck, if I had 3 or 4 drinks in a night I was plenty drunk, but is that “binge” drinking-nope. Most kids still drink fairly responsibly–not that they don’t get drunk but they aren’t blacking out, stumbling down in the gutter drunk-at least not ‘most’, some, sure, but no where near most.</p>

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<p>So what happened to the culture?</p>

<p>This is how I understand it as a research and policy person. But I quickly admit to not having more close experience than that of my now-grown children, and my own college experience a long time ago.</p>

<p>On the face of it, drinking among 18-21 year olds is actually significantly lower than it was in the late 70s. The change in the drinking age had profound effects upon drinking behavior - especially upon those ages 14-17 (who used to be supplied by the 18 year olds). Many fewer drunken driving deaths, fewer driving injuries, fewer alcohol-related accidents. Etc. From a public health perspective, a great success. We can debate the civil libertarian implications ad infinitum (and I have some sympathy to the argument).</p>

<p>Rates of binge drinking among college students (18-24, and among 18-year-olds) appear at first glance to be roughly the same as they were 20 years ago (around 44% in the past two weeks). But there is another reality underneath the data. Beginning around 2001, because of the very serious marketing attempts of companies like Smirnoff’s (Smirnoff’s Ice, Mike’s Hard Lemonade, other malt beverages - and there is a huge story about how they are manufactured, and why), kids (as young as 13) turned from beer to hard liquor. Many (especially girls) didn’t/don’t like the taste of beer, Smirnoff’s had a failing brand, and they came up with an answer (I have the sales figures, and they have soared!). And it is a short hop from the malt liquors (which have much higher alcohol content than most beer) to the “adult” product itself. Surveys now indicate that hard liquor is the beverage of choice among young people, a profound change from 20 years ago.</p>

<p>Because the kids don’t drink in bars, they never learned what a standard sized drink looks/tastes like. Many simply don’t know. The result is that the binge drinking estimates are understimates - on average, the college student who thinks s/he had four drinks (a non-binge episode) actually had nine! (And can’t figure out why s/he had a blackout!) I think it likely (but can’t prove it) that the real binge drinking rate on campuses is closer to 52%. Binge drinking IS the norm. the majority of students DID binge in the past two weeks. (And, if the Duke University studies are any indication, the percentage of students who experience one or more alcohol-related blackouts in any one year is now in the double digits - see below.)</p>

<p>What is happening which may be more salient, though, is that the binge drinkers are drinking MORE. Much more, both in terms of how much they have on each occasion, and how many times they drink per week. Rates of serious alcohol problems and/or alcoholism among young people are increasing - and from the little data I see (sometimes the data is older than I’d like) somewhat rapidly. </p>

<p>I expect (but can’t prove) that it is this drinking intensity that makes today’s campuses quite a bit different than they were even 25 years ago. I can also see (for sure - for this we do have data) that campuses - even ones where the demographics of the students are similar - can be profoundly different in their drinking cultures. </p>

<p>I expect that most parents don’t understand much about what has happened in the “alcohol market”. I certainly wouldn’t except that is part of my job, I get bombarded with the data. And so it makes it more difficult for us to make informed decisions - or even to educate our children well regarding this issue. </p>

<p>What to do with such information I don’t know, except to approach the college experience with open eyes.</p>

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<p>The drinking seems like only a part of the issue. Like Surfcity mentioned, I think we all accept that there will be drinking and parties, but how much and how escapable it is
is another matter. I envision some dorms as tending to be loud with those living there becoming involuntary participants in the party (not forced to drink, but forced to be in the middle of the ensuing chaos…perhaps while trying to study, sleep, or just be in a quiet place…something like accidently booking a family vacation in Daytona during spring break… ) where I can also imagine other dorms possibly being much quieter, with the partying happening primarly somewhere outside of the dorm building or off campus. I have NO idea if those two scenarios are accurate, but those are two images that come to mind when I am reading about different Universities, and I think many of us are hopeful that our kids will be able to find that quieter option.</p>

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<p>Ask the janitorial staff when you visit. Read the local newspaper (not the campus newspaper) for stories about kids urinating on front porches and cars and kids swingsets when they are staggering home from parties. Ask kids who have transferred about what it’s like trying to brush your teeth with a sink full of vomit on a Friday morning.</p>

<p>I think parents here have a fundamental misunderstanding of how pervasive binge drinking and over drinking (not tipsy, not buzzed, but vomiting, blacking out, etc.) is at some colleges.</p>

<p>Ask your kids. If they are in touch with older kids from their HS they probably already know which schools they’d like to avoid.</p>

<p>Miami- this isn’t like not wanting to overeat, therefore avoiding parties or restaurants. This is about waking up with a roommate who has passed out after vomiting outside your door. If you think that “this happens everywhere and that you can’t avoid it” I think you’re wrong. And Mini has good statistics on the schools where the prevailing culture is NOT drink till you pass out. Regularly. On Tuesdays.</p>

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<p>IMHO, it’s parents and outsiders who misunderstand how prominant incidents like that are. </p>

<p>I’ve never seen a sink full of puke, or know anyone who has. Yes, some people are idiots and pee in public. It happens even off college campuses. Yes, binge drinking happens but it’s not nearly as frequent or bad as most people seem to think. Students grossly over-exaggerate and outsiders are even worse.</p>

<p>The NORM is not to drink or to drink responsibly.</p>

<p>But I don’t have statistics to back me up so I’ll bow out of that part of the discussion.</p>

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<p>@ mini… you mentioned a few schools that seem to have a less pervasive alchohol/party atmosphere. I’d love to hear more suggestions that might fit that description. Better yet, how do you come by those names…what would you recommend looking at (what stats, articles, reports, etc) that might help us find that info about specific schools?</p>

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<p>If I was looking at a large university, I would look to see if they have a program similar to the Unviersity of Nebraska. UN-L led the way in developing policies, procedures, programs, etc in an attempt to curb binge driniking all based on the research Mini often mentions.</p>

<p>[UNL</a> NU Directions](<a href=“http://www.nudirections.org/]UNL”>http://www.nudirections.org/)</p>

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<p>Well, you can ask the alcohol/drug coordinator on campus for data - virtually every campus has one; it is often a dean. Some of the colleges publish their data in the campus paper; sometimes you can search back issues. The data I get that are private (not published by the college) are covered by confidentiality agreements. So the aggregate data becomes public, but not data about individual schools.</p>

<p>The general characteristics of high binge-drinking schools are well-known, and have already been posted. Doesn’t help you with individual cases though. You just have to kick the tires.</p>

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<p>I am not sure about all above, I believe that it is very different from person to person and much depends on parents, but not all. I myself have been drinking my whole life and was not drunk ever, not once. I have to admit, that 3 -4 drinks for me is not enough to get drunk, but everybody is different.<br>
Going to my kids. Both drink. I have forced my own D. to try at age 14. She took littel sip and almost choked, hated it so much that she did not try anymore for very long time, but eventually she did. I do not know if either of them were ever drunk, it is enough to know that they were not in trouble. I know that D. said that she went to bars on a weekends at college and had a good time there. When family gets together, we definitely drink and I have nothing against it. Going to bars did not prevent my kids to graduate in great standing (D. with Honors Summa Cum Laude) and go on successfully to their next destination in life, S. is working, married and raising his own family and always has tons of friends around him, D. is in Med. School and also always surrounded with friends everywhere she goes. Both are very outgoing. Both went to state public college with great “drinking” reputation. According to S., he witnessed many kids who were very restricted at home and who enjoyed thir new “freedom” a bit more than they should have, they fell out of their original tracks and some fell out of college.
Talk to kids and maybe let them try certain things under your supervision, so that they are more aware of their own bodies and consequences of their own behaviour. Restriction and control is only good up to certain point. If they desire to do so, they will find the way out, even if you chain them down. Prevailing culture or whatever, not everybody is drinking and passing out at every “drinking” place, there are relatively few that created certain “drinking” reputation. However, it is everywhere, cannot be avoided, reputation or not. </p>

<p>Reputation of certain place has no correlation to what your kid will do at this place, none at all, no statistical tie whatsoever.</p>

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<p>Good news–pot smoking to replace drinking. Happy now?</p>

<p>[Study:</a> Teen marijuana use on the rise - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57425725/study-teen-marijuana-use-on-the-rise/]Study:”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57425725/study-teen-marijuana-use-on-the-rise/)</p>

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<p>Could we agree on a definition of binge drinking?</p>

<p>The CDC defines it as “A pattern of drinking that brings a person’s blood alcohol concentration to .08 grams percent or above. Typically this occurs When men consume 5 or more drinks, and women consume 4 or more drinks in about two hours.”. </p>

<p>Is that what all of us are thinking when we use the term “binge drinking”? Reading some of the posts on this thread leads me to believe that some of us are defining it differently</p>