<p>Well, when I say binge drinking, I guess I am thinking of “pre gaming” drinking that goes on in dorms or houses.</p>
<p>Counterintuitively, I think the crackdown on alcohol has contributed to excessive drinking. Back in the dark ages (80s) when I was in school, we were allowed to have beer etc in our rooms and of course the frats served anyone. You only got in trouble if you were causing a problem on the hall.</p>
<p>Subsequently, we could have a beer or two after homework was done, or have a few at a party on the weekend. You could get tipsy, stay sober, or hammered or somewhere in between</p>
<p>Now, as i understand it, students can’t have alcohol in the rooms and many fraternities and other parties have to have wristbands or ID checks for those over 21. So kids have to be more sneaky to drink. Hence someone keeping a bottle of vodka hidden (easier to stash than a case of beer!) and then he and his friends doing a few shots before going out, since they may not be able to get served at a party if they are not 21. Much easier to drink too much in that scenario. And harder to just be the guy who wants to go to the party but maybe not down 3 shots of vodka first.</p>
<p>In the old days, a group of kids could all go to a party together and no one necessarily noticed who was drinking what. Now that it is all surreptitious I think there is more peer pressure.</p>
<p>Again this isn’t me worrying that my S will become a partier It’s concern that it is harder at SOME schools to find people who enjoy other things.</p>
<p>I think the suggestion to look at other clubs/activities is a good one. Also, to read the papers and I will plan to do both.</p>
<p>The National Advisory Council of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcohiolis reached a consensus on the definition in 2004:</p>
<p>“A “binge” is a pattern of drinking alcohol that brings blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 gram percent or above. For the typical adult, this pattern corresponds to consuming 5 or more drinks (male), or 4 or more drinks (female), in about 2 hours.”</p>
<p>Typically, the surveys have asked for how many drinks in a “drinking episode”, as no one watches the clock, or does blood draws. (As I have already noted, experimental data indicate that most students underestimate the number of drinks they actually have.)</p>
<p>blossom–news reports and whatnot will only report the worst. So, one or two kids are puking on cars in a parking lot but what about the 1000 other kids that had 2 drinks, danced some and went home. Where are the news reports about them?</p>
<p>mini–again 5 drinks in 2 hours is “binge” drinking? BAC at .08 is JUST at the legal limit, meaning if they had 4 drinks in 2 hours they would be "legal’ to drive. That is hardly a “binge”. That is barely past social drinking. Back when I was in college having 4 drinks in an evening was pretty common, and probably the “norm” for those that went to the bars, etc. The “drunks” were having 10+ drinks in an evening out. Again, I think the whole “binge” drinking is blown out of proportion or at least those reporting on it forgot what THEY were like in college. Also, there is as much alcohol in 3 shots of vodka as there are in 3 beers…</p>
<p>The drinking cultures of colleges are not all the same. As mentioned previously, rural college, colleges with fraternity-dominated social scenes and sports-centered colleges all seem to have more drinking. Although college-aged drinking does happen at all colleges, when drinking is a pervasive part of socializing - it affects all students. My son, a freshman at a large state-related university, pulled a non-responsive student from a running shower one night and called for help. Apparently the friends of the passed-out student left him in the shower, not thinking or caring that he could have drowned. At that school, one with a big sports program, but not especially known for its drinking culture, vomit was a common sight in the mornings. Partly because of these experiences, my son transferred to a small LAC where students seem to drink beer (and smoke pot) in moderation. But some highly ranked LACs have terrible alcohol problems. We visited one in new England the morning after 6 students were hospitalized for alcohol poisoning the night before. And for people who think all students drink and it’s not a big deal - alcohol poisoning is extremely dangerous. Dying from alcohol poisoning is common. Those students were lucky that their friends notified the authorities and got them to a hospital.</p>
<p>As parents, we can’t protect our college-aged children from everything. But to think they will not be influenced by what goes on around them seems naive. I agree with the posters who mentioned reading school newspapers and asking current students to get an idea about a school’s drinking culture. Lots of students start drinking in high school. Those same students are attracted to the idea of drinking in college. A college’s drinking culture attracts like-minded students which perpetuates that culture.</p>
<p>"mini–again 5 drinks in 2 hours is “binge” drinking? BAC at .08 is JUST at the legal limit, meaning if they had 4 drinks in 2 hours they would be “legal’ to drive.”</p>
<p>As noted, the average non-binging drinker who thinks he had only four drinks on average (it seems) actually had NINE. (And mind you, the BAC is for adults. In terms of size and development, many even late teenagers aren’t there yet.)</p>
<p>Also noted, what I see as changing is NOT so much the number/percentage of bingers (I said that above), but the INTENSITY of drinking, both in terms of amount per episode, and the number of episodes in a two week period (and the number of “heavy drinkers” - those who have 2 or more virtually every day).</p>
<p>“Again, I think the whole “binge” drinking is blown out of proportion or at least those reporting on it forgot what THEY were like in college. Also, there is as much alcohol in 3 shots of vodka as there are in 3 beers…”</p>
<p>To me, the data scream just the opposite. To your last point, the three “shots” of vodka poured by the average college student is 5.4 drinks (and for half, it is more).</p>
<p>Hmmm … seems like about the only thing that’s changed at Lafayette in the last 45 years (other than they now admit girls!!!) is that instead of just turning a blind eye to the partying and underage drinking, the administration is now semi-sanctioning it.</p>
<p>Probably just the engineers, though. The liberal arts kids would never do such a thing. =D</p>
<p>OP, I understand your concerns about your introverted son. S1 went to a big university. He did NOT get into the party culture, which I am grateful, but he also seems to be in his room a lot more than I would like. He is just finishing his sophomore year and I know he has friends and goes out, but he isn’t haven’t the “college experience” that I imagined. Talking to him though he is very happy at school and with his experiences and choices. When my introverted S2 son was looking at schools, I was guiding him more to smaller LACs at first, but changed my mind. I now believe you have more opportunity to be “yourself” with less peer pressure in a larger university because of the sheer numbers of other freshman/students…you are bound to find a group that you fit in with eventually. We’ll see if my theory is correct this time next year after S2 is done with his freshman year at a different large university. Good luck to your son.</p>
<p>I might have missed it upthread, but I would think that in terms of “fit” the more important question than parties at big vs small would be urban vs rural. At an urban campus of any size a student will not be beholden to the prevailing culture in the same way that they would be at a more isolated school. Whatever the consumption stats are, any given student would have entertainment outlets more readily available off campus in a vibrant, urban setting. The drinking culture might be equally dangerous for those who participate, but avoidance would be easier. At a rural or isolated campus your student will be a “captive audience” and I would think be more likely to fall into participation or be very uncomfortable (no data or “evidence” to support - just conjecture). I know the sub-free housing people will likely pipe up but I speak based on my own state’s urban vs land grant campus “culture”.</p>
<p>My D1 goes to an LAC that has a reputation as having a somewhat significant “drinking culture”. When we went to the parent meeting when we dropped her off, the college president talked about how campus security was NOT going to try to stop alcohol use, but just make sure the kids are safe (in fact, I think he had been quoted in the Wall Street Journal on stating that the drinking age should be lowered, and he had to leave our presentation to take a call from a reporter regarding that statement). I found it very unsettling. But I knew that D1 had a good head on her shoulders, was not a regular drinker, and was determined to get the most out of her college education.</p>
<p>She is graduating in two weeks near the top of her class. While she has been to some parties on campus, she is definitely still not a regular drinker. We were talking recently, and she said she probably has one drink a month. She found friends in her freshman dorm (regular dorm, not sub free, although we had discussed that option) and some clubs she joined that are pretty much non-drinkers, and built her social life around them. Freshman year roomate WAS a heavy drinker, and they had some conflict over roommate keeping alcohol in the room. D moved out in the spring with a roommate she was more compatible with, and the initial roomate dropped out of school at the end of the year. Except for that one problem, it has been pretty much a non-issue for her.</p>
<p>The only difference from OP’s kid is that D1 isn’t an introvert. My D2 is (HS junior), so this is something I am also thinking about for her. Based on D1’s experience, we are probably willing to go down the rural LAC route for D2, knowing that there will be a significant group of people who won’t be heavy drinkers even if there are some who are.</p>
<p>Being a numbers type of guy I really like Mini’s posts, and I suppose I have to believe them, but I find the numbers amazingly low. Initially I thought my perceptions were just based on my own experiences, as well as those of my hard partying son and his friends, but they aren’t. My D is the epitome of Miss Goody Two Shoes, and hangs out with a similar group, yet even her crowd frequently binge drinks. </p>
<p>We also have lots of friends with kids in college right now and they are constantly reciting stories of massive amounts of drinking on their campuses. </p>
<p>Overall though I tend to agree with the theory that a large school might be better, in that it would offer more choices, and more students in terms of raw numbers that are similarly inclined.</p>
<p>On a related note: I have read a number of studies that indicate that the later a kid starts drinking, the less likely they are to end up a problem drinker. Having seen firsthand with both my son (and myself) how over drinking can affect someone’s life, I decided to take a cue from a friend and try something different.</p>
<p>I offered my 2 Ds $5,000 (and told them it would probably be more like $10k) if they would not drink (or smoke) until they were 25. It’s totally an honor based system and I would bet my life that both would tell me instead of lying if they reneged on the deal.</p>
<p>When talking with your kids about the risks associated with excessive drinking, talk to them as well about what their responsibilities are (and aren’t) to fellow students, friends, room-mates - who have had too much to drink. Non-drinkers or ‘sippers’ often find themselves awkward situations where they feel obliged to protect someone else who has over-indulged and is behaving in a way that is potentially dangerous. Should they call a responsible adult at 2am to take over? Should they haul a room-mate away from a situation that they suspect the roomie will regret in the morning? Or is that none of their business and they should walk away? What if a drunken friend is talking about driving or leaving with someone in a car who has had too much to drink? </p>
<p>For young people who haven’t faced these situations before, it’s hard to know what to do when you are on the spot. Fellow partiers may decide that its not their business and they don’t want to get involved, leaving your kid wondering what to do next. If they’ve at least thought about it ahead of time, they can be better prepared - and keep everyone a bit safer.</p>
<p>From my limited experience matriculating at a school not far from a big city, but having taken a semester at a small, isolated college, I can tell you that the drinking culture FAR exceeded the norm at the remote school. There was literally <em>nothing</em> to do on weekend nights with the exception of partying hard. I found myself caught up in that culture very quickly. Back at my suburban school, I drank but it was mixed with other things to do simply by virtue of having access to different places nearby.</p>
<p>From hearing the experiences of MANY recent college graduates, it’s clear there is very heavy drinking going on at most (maybe not all) colleges, no matter what the setting. It is also true that at all schools there are those who do not enjoy that kind of scene (they may drink moderately or not at all). The question is how does a student find them and how does the university support those choices? At many schools the only alternative to heavy drinking is gaming - also not the right scene for many students. In the university near where I live (large, urban campus, big athletics), there is lots of binge drinking, but the university also supported a small group of students a few years ago who wanted an alternative scene - they envisioned a “salon” environment where people could meet, talk about ideas, etc. The university was thrilled, and now gives them a room every week, and supplies tea and snacks. They sometimes watch movies, sometimes have readings, sometimes play cards - whatever strikes their fancy. The group has grown as people catch wind of it. Finding these kinds of options may be hard, and may even require OP’s S to take the initiative to start something. (FWIW, few if any of these kids fit the non-Caucasian, female, religious stereotype).</p>
<p>It’s really not difficult. As a freshmen, I wandered around my dorm on weekend nights and found people who weren’t partying. I’m NOT an outgoing person, I just didn’t want to sit by myself. Found a great group of friends that way. </p>
<p>Many Us sponsor alcohol-free activities on the weekends. </p>
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<p>I doubt that’s true. I really, really doubt that. I doubt at ANY school that the “only” or even “primary” alternative to heavy drinking is gaming.</p>
<p>So I’ve been thinking about the drinking culture issues brought up in a bunch of threads lately, especially in the aftermath of the Lafayette death. I was no angel & neither was DH, and our friends all indulged as well but I can’t think of anyone who “pregamed” and got hammered every weekend. Of course, we were both commuter students, blue collar, and working 1 or 2 jobs in addition to full time course loads. </p>
<p>So what’s the difference? Mizzbee (I think) had mentioned somewhere the rise in drinking hard liquor vs. beer (I remember all my group thinking hard liquor was for our parents. Ewww.) And Mini bringing up the marketing of the faux vodka type drinks such as Smirnoff Ice. Are there statistics saying that on campus students party harder than commuters (which I suspect) or that parent levels of income affect drinking levels?</p>
<p>One thing I can’t get my head around is where the $$$ for all this alcohol is coming from. It’s way more expensive to get a cheap bottle of vodka than a six pack of Natty Light. What happened to “poor college students?”</p>
<p>Many if not most students at residential 4 year schools are not poor. Vodka is very cheap. Commuters are not even in the same league when it comes to partying. Very different lifestyle</p>