Actually she was done with all school requirements by the end of 10th grade. We do not like AP mess with current COVID situation. Last year school did not allow face-to-face AP exams… We had enough. CC classes are way above AP in our case. We have a very reputable CC.
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@WayOutWestMom your thoughts about this? If a student completes these courses at a CC…will this suffice at most medical schools.
@momsearcheng Another thing for you to consider. Many, if not most medical school students do not enroll directly after undergrad school. They take a year…sometimes longer…to do things like medically related work and volunteer work, shadowing, MCAT prep, etc.
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Yes we thought about this. But there is literally nothing to take in school except APs and we do not like as I mentioned above with all that AP mess for two years. Will medical school care where you took Calc1 ? I doubt it. Psych 101 if you took 102 and more in college. Not really. Sociology and English are just general Ed. Physics did not fit into her major. She would have to stay for extra year in undergrad to fulfill requirement. There would be tone of advanced BIO and Chem to prove herself in 4 year college. She does not plan to have BIOChem major that is why the following approach was chosen.
Many students take AP not because it is better, but because this the only way they know… Actually CC classes are stronger and better. We did it in 12th grade with older child and regretted that we did not take CC classes earlier. All classes transferred to GaTech ( I hand picked them.) I understand that Medical school is not GaTech, but anybody reasonable should not care about intro classes if a student proved himself through MCAT that test that intro knowledge. If the Medical School will deny admission to a student who had many BIO and Chem classes in 4 year school, research, good GPA and MCAT, then it is not correct medical school…
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From what I saw so far my DD intro CC are very challenging and hardly can be less challenging than say at College of Wooster. Her Calc 1 is way above AP Calc that my other kid took in HS. HS allows retakes, drop low scores. Not the case for CC. She is working her but off in that Calc class.
Your daughter would likely get $15,000 - $17,000 a year, honors classes have smaller classes. It’s a beautiful campus with a really fun Main Street, there is a lot of school spirit and so many clubs and activities. When my daughter visited she was wow’d by how happy the students were. Christiana hospital is right there on campus. There are about 7000 fewer undergraduate students than UMD, 10,000 fewer than Pitt (and gives a lot more merit than Pitt).
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Many medical schools will be fine with CC credits for pre-reqs, but not all of them will accept CC credits. There are a fair number of number of schools that specifically say they will not accept any pre-reqs taken at a CC.
And those medical schools that do accept CC credits for pre-reqs strongly recommend (and in med school speak that mean require) all CC credits be supplemented with additional UL electives in the same discipline as the CC credits if the student wants to be considered a competitive applicant for med school.
Now UL bio isn’t a problem, but UL physics courses will be advanced topics physics major classes. And gen chem credits will need to be supplemented with inorganic, analytic or physical chem coursework (not ochem or biochem).
FWIW, not all med school accept AP/IB credits either, and every single med school that does accept AP/IB credit expects all AP/IB classes will be supplemented.
And it doesn’t matter how hard you think their CC classes are. It matters what the adcomms think. And unfortunately there is a widespread perception that CC classes are less comprehensive and less competitive than courses taken at a 4 year college.
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My daughter researched the AP courses that medical schools accepted. Some accepted them, others did not, and they all had a limit. No school accepted them all.
CC courses are not more rigorous than AP at our HS, and our CC has articulation agreements with many excellent schools…
If a school accepts these credits, be prepared to take high level college classes in that subject while in undergrad (this should be researched).
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Med schools get as many as 10-18 applicants for each available seat. Adcomms can afford to be picky. Adcomms are actively looking for reasons to deny applicants… Not having fulfilled the basic stated requirements is an easy way to remove an applicant from the pool. Having an outstanding MCAT will not make up for any deficiencies in pre-reqs, GPA or ECs.
P.S. Med schools get audited on a annual basis by their accrediting body to make sure they are adhering to their stated admission requirements. A med school can lose accreditation over admitting a single student who doesn’t meet those requirements. Med schools --and medicine as a profession-- are enormously risk-adverse.
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I think it is important for the OP to balance what they think is reasonable/think they know with what is the actual practices of the colleges and med schools that they hope are in their future.
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https://www.aamc.org/media/6016/download?attachment
Maryland is one of the most difficult states for pre-meds. Only 10% of MD residents who applied to Maryland med schools (UMD and JHU combined) matriculated in-state. Maryland is a more difficult state for pre-meds than California. (Which is notoriously difficult. )
This means your daughter needs to have an application that fulfills the requirements of as many med school as possible since she will need to apply very widely for best chance of gaining an acceptance.
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Here is another one
https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admissions-doctor/articles/how-medical-schools-view-community-college-credits
Why accept a blog post by some anonymous person who may or may. to have any knowledge of this topic? Go to a primary source–the med schools themselves.
SUNY Upstate College of Medicine
Frequently Asked Questions | College of Medicine | SUNY Upstate Medical University
“Applicants should avoid taking more than one or two prerequisite science courses during the summer and avoid taking them at community colleges.”
Ichan School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/medical/admissions/regular-track/requirements
Q: Can I take my courses at a community college, or must I take them at a four-year college or university?
A: We have no requirement about where you take courses, though the Committee on Admissions does take that into consideration in evaluating your application.
Johns Hopkins Medical School
Prerequisites, Requirements and Policies | Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine M.D. Program
The School of Medicine accepts prerequisites completed at the community college level. In order to be competitive in the selection process, we encourage prospective applicants with community college prerequisites to supplement these courses by taking advanced courses in related subjects at their four year institution.
University of Florida College of Medicine
FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions » FAQ » Medical Admissions » College of Medicine » University of Florida
Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses at my local community/junior college?
A: In order to create the most academically competitive application you should take all prerequisite courses at the most competitive bachelor’s degree granting institution where you can gain entrance. You should try to complete your pre-requisite courses at a four-year institution
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
https://www.einstein.yu.edu/educati…pplication-procedure/course-requirements.aspx
Whereas course work at a four-year college or university is our benchmark, if a student chooses to meet a competency component via an alternate route such as through laboratory experience, through an advanced placement course, a course taken at a community college, a course taken abroad (during a semester abroad for which the undergraduate U.S. degree-granting institution gives credit, or for which AMCAS will verify and report the grade), or an online course, he or she should seek guidance from his or her advisor to ensure that the option meets the above guidelines as well as the rigorous academic standard required by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.
George Washington University
MD Program Frequently Asked Questions | The School of Medicine & Health Sciences
Do you accept community college credits?
Yes. The Committee on Admissions does accept coursework taken at a community college; however, it is preferable to have the pre-medical coursework taken at a four-year college or university.
Florida State University College of Medicine
http://med.fsu.edu/?page=mdAdmissions.admissionRequirement
Listed below is the pre-requisite coursework required for all matriculates to the FSU COM. Advanced Placement, CLEP, and dual enrollment credits fulfill the course requirements. However, courses taken in a traditional classroom at a four-year institution are considered to be more academically competitive.
Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
MD Program Admissions Requirements | Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
Two pre-requisite science courses can be fulfilled with AP credits, community college courses or through a study abroad program.
Texas A&M Health Sciences Center College of Medicine
Medical School Admissions
Policy on AP Credits, Credits by Exam, and Dual Credit
We generally prefer that applicants take the prerequisite courses at 4-year accredited colleges and universities rather than utilize advanced placement credits, credits by exam, dual-credit, pass/fail course work or community college courses. We do not dismiss these credits; and, if they have been taken, we will accept them toward meeting the prerequisites. In fact, if an applicant has placed out of a required level course, we will also accept another course in that discipline at the same or higher level. Again, our preference is that applicants take graded courses at 4-year institutions, particularly the prerequisites in the biological sciences and the chemistry series.
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
http://www.medschool.vcu.edu/admissions/md/faq/#q43
Are community college classes accepted as prerequisite course credit?
They may be, but the Admissions Committee generally expects students to complete all prerequisite courses at a four-year undergraduate institution.
Yale
https://medicine.yale.edu/education/admissions/apply/premed.aspx
Pre-medical courses must be completed in a U.S., U.K., or Canadian college or university. U.S. Community College courses are acceptable, provided that the courses include laboratory work and are comparable in content to courses at four-year colleges, universities, or institutes of technology.
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
http://www.medschool.vcu.edu/admissions/md/faq/#q43
Are community college classes accepted as prerequisite course credit?
They may be, but the Admissions Committee generally expects students to complete all prerequisite courses at a four-year undergraduate institution.
Weill Cornell
http://weill.cornell.edu/education/admissions/app_faq.html
Can I take my prerequisite courses at a Community College?
It is not recommended.
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Creighton University SOM
Creighton University School of Medicine has no defined prerequisite course requirements. However, as preparatory to the MCAT and a rigorous medical school curriculum, we recommend the following recent (past 3 years) coursework in an accredited 4-year college/university in the United States or Canada
Carle Illinois College of Medicine
Community college credit is accepted and Advanced Placement credit is accepted when succeeded by a higher-level course in the same subject at an undergraduate institution.
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OP— based on the number of DE credits your daughter has, how many years do you anticipate she will be spending at the 4-year college that she is applying for? Will she enter as a freshman, or with sophomore or junior standing?
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The US News article that you posted has a link that looks like it might be very helpful for your daughter – a link to the Medical School Admission Requirements Database. Medical School Admission Requirements™ (MSAR®) for Applicants | Students & Residents
That might help your family with concrete information even beyong what WayOutWestMom has provided. Hopefully you will find a number of med schools where your daughter’s existing and planned curriculum will be a good match – and if she finds she needs to do something differently than she is currenty planning, she still has time. Best to know early than when it is towards the end of her undergraduate time.
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Physics in particular is the most problematic if a pre-med needs to take more advanced courses, since the typical introductory physics for biology majors and pre-meds courses are not suitable for preparing to take more advanced physics courses (unless the pre-med initially took introductory physics courses that are suitable for physics majors).
If a pre-med took introductory physics for biology majors and pre-meds and then takes introductory physics for physics majors, would they have to mark the latter as a “repeat” on the medical school application?
AP physics 1 or 2 (or B) credit would have similar issues.
MSAR is a subscription-only database published by the AAMC (American Association of Medical Colleges)
A one year subscription costs $29. You can purchase it here: Medical School Admission Requirements (MSAR) for U.S. and Canadian Medical Schools (Online)
However, the OP needs to be aware that admission requirements can and do change from year-to-year. What’s acceptable today may not be in 4-6 years fro now when her daughter is ready to apply.
(Famously --or perhaps infamously-- Ohio State University SOM added an mandatory anatomy & physiology class to its admission requirements 2 weeks into the application cycle 4 years ago.)
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That seems so unfair! I bet it caught a lot of people off guard and scuttled the plans of many.
The best information is going to come directly from the medical school.
I agree that it’s a good idea for students to research what they think the undergraduate process entails… versus the reality of what it entails.
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