Smith vs Mount Holyoke

<p>I am looking at Smith and Mount Holyoke and like what I have learned about both. I will be applying as a third year transfer with a studio art major in need of generous fin aid. Anyone have any useful comparisons I should consider (especially about academic workload, campus life, the surrounding area, and the general college experience?</p>

<p>I know the map is not the territory, but from studying the websites of Smith and MHC I get the sense that these two schools have very different “personalities” (i.e., institutional cultures). Is this a valid observation? Thank you for your help.</p>

<p>I personally am looking at both schools, but prefer Smith. It seems to be a bit more intense as well as a bit “angrier” (for lack of a better term)</p>

<p>MHC, however, tends to have LOTS of cute traditions</p>

<p>Rocket, I am not sure I get your meaning. “Angrier”? In what sense? I see you are from PA. I’m from CA, and there is no chance I will be able to visit either campus. Have you seen either school?</p>

<p>hahah…sorry…my friends and i use angry in a non-traditional sense. Angry just means more driven, intense, and a tendency to take no sh_ t</p>

<p>i plan on def. applying to smith for this reason, and will apply to either MHC or Wellesley</p>

<p>As college towns go, Northampton has it all over South Hadley. My D really liked Northampton but wasn’t crazy about Smith for other reasons. We did a drive-through of Mount Holyoke and South Hadley that took all of 2 minutes. D didn’t want to get out of the car. The campus is gorgeous, but the town is pretty much a non-entity, and it seemed not so easy to get from there to Northampton, clearly the liveliest town in the Five colleges area.</p>

<p>My thumbnail for Smithies is bright, quirky, and driven. Or “formidable.” If arguing were an intramural, Smith would have a very high degree of participation.</p>

<p>I don’t have much direct experience with Mounties. (Or are they holy okies?) But from the gestalt of everything I here, they seem less inclined to push boundaries, not as quirky or “edgy,” and perhaps not as competitive.*** My D’s reaction to MHC when we touring was the same as BClintonk’s D and for the same reasons. However, she loved Smith and there was an almost audible “click” every time she walked on campus, from two overnight visits to move-in.</p>

<p>*** N.B., Smithies tend to be competitive in terms of driving themselves, not versus each other.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure they’re called MoHos.</p>

<p>Another thing to keep in mind is what sort of campus look you like. MHC has a much more uniform looking campus than Smith, which has an architecturally very diverse campus. I think Smith also has a more compact campus, partially because it’s more urban.</p>

<p>Calling Northampton “urban” is a bit of a stretch. For the 5 college area, there is definitely more retail, restaurants, bars etc. in Northapmton and Amhest than in South Hadley…but neither Northampton or Amherst is “urban”. </p>

<p>It is really important to visit the schools…or…at least meet a number of students and recent alums to determine a school’s personality. Another way to get an idea of a school’s personality…that I haven’t seen mentioned on this site…is to read the Alum Magazine. Both MHC and Smith have quarterly alumnae magazines. It will give you an idea of what alums think are the important happenings on campus, and in the world at large. While these magazines are also PR tools, the “rose colored glasses” have a more realistic lens than Admissions materials.</p>

<p>As for TheDad’s comment : “If arguing were an intramural, Smith would have a very high degree of participation” – I would suggest that’s true of many students at women’s schools – especially those schools that were part of the 7 Sisters.</p>

<p>Specific to Art, the Mount Holyoke Art museum is an integral part of the campus. Shows are originated there, and then travel. They also receive traveling exhibits. The Friends of Art Group is extremely active and helps create contacts and networking for students throughout the US and the world.</p>

<p>This page…at the bottom…contains a list of places where recent Mount Holyoke studio art majors have had internships, and might be of interest to you: [Mount</a> Holyoke College :: Studio Art](<a href=“http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/cdc/9138.shtml]Mount”>http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/cdc/9138.shtml)</p>

<p>Thanks everyone! You’ve all given me some very useful info. That MHC internship link is impressive, 2Boysima. I have “toured” both campuses via Google Earth and MHC looks beautiful. I take it the main objection of Ds to MHC has been its isolation. I’m not sure how I would deal with that either. How realistic is the five college consortium arrangement, i.e., how far apart are the campuses. I know it opens up the possibility of a wider selection of courses, but I don’t want to ride an hour on a bus to take a course at a college I don’t attend.</p>

<p>Many of the students at Hampshire, Smith and Mount Holyoke take at least one Five-College course in their 4 years at school. A much lower percentage of UMAss students do it. So…it’s manageable.</p>

<p>“Isolated” is a relative term. When arriving at the Mount Holyoke campus, you’re not travelling through fields and forrests…you go past homes and businesses. There are restaurants, a spectacular book store, gift and clothing stores and a movie theatre within walking distance of the campus. Grocery and drug stores are about a mile away. But the quantity of retail choices is substantially lower than in Northampton or Amherst.</p>

<p>I know you’ve posted on the 2 colleges threads…and…that’s probably a better place to get most of your questions answered by a current student. We parents have some biases when it comes to schools we’ve attended or our kids have attended! We also can answer your questions from what our kids have told us, or what we remember from when we attended the school…but current students can give you a better idea of today’s practicality of things like taking a 5-college course.</p>

<p>Smith is long-rumored to have a more palpable sense of lesbianism than any of the other sisters, so my only advice would be to make sure you are ok with that.</p>

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<p>It took you 2 minutes? You must have driven very slowly if it took you that long. As I recall, the “town” of South Hadley consisted of a post office and about a half dozen little shops clustered near the campus and a few resdeintial streets beyond that. At least Northampton is a real town.</p>

<p>I liked both schools though. But D had an unfortunate incident while walking around Smith (she was accosted by a derelict panhandler whose pants were falling off) that turned her off to the school. Also in my casual observation a lot higher percentage of the Smith women had tattoos - which can be viewed as either a positive or a negative, depending on your opinion of tattoos.</p>

<p>As someone with looooong familiarity with the area, I can tell you that kids from each college do take courses at the others, and there’s a terrific bus system that gets you from one to another easily. It’s actually easier for Amherst/Holyoke/UMASS/Hampshire kids, because they’re all on the same side of the river, and Smith is across the bridge (which is a pain in the neck for traffic). From UMASS/Amherst to Mt. Holyoke is only about 20 minutes, with Hampshire on the way there. Smith is anywhere from 1/2 hour to 45 minutes, depending on traffic on the bridge. Noho is a great little city, but South Hadley is very charming, with more going on than meets the eye. And one last thing–always remember, it’s not a sacred tree (“holy oak”), it’s an entire egg (“whole yolk”)! :)</p>

<p>Both are beautiful in terms of landscape architecture, the relationship of the buildings to the grounds. You feel it when you walk around.</p>

<p>Mt. Holyoke;s building architecture was extolled above, so I’ll add mention that Smith’s landscape was designed by Frederick Law Olmsted, America’s foremost landscape architect of the l9th century. He also designed Central Park in NYC, Delaware Park in Buffalo, and more. He integrates buildings with curving pathways, beds of shrubs and flowers, large trees, and a small lake. When you travel the Smith campus, it unfolds as you walk along. </p>

<p>Since you enjoy art, that would be important to you to be surrounded by physical beauty. Both places are very attractive.</p>

<p>Smith is right up the hill from the small City of Northampton, a dynamic and very livable place. Artsy stores, cafes, and political activity characterize the main street, around a mile long with a crossroad of equal length to define the downtown. The side-streets and neighborhoods are close-knit and pleasant in terms of housing. I’ve never been to Berkeley but I’m searching for a comparable place in California for you to imagine Northampton; maybe even parts of downtown San Francisco? Posters for independent arts projects, grass-roots political meetings, gay community causes are abundant in Northampton. </p>

<p>South Hadley remains the least changed: old, well-kempt, sweet, small rural farmtown crossroads, but nestled in the woods under the tree canopy. If you’ve read Robert Frost’s poems or Thornton Wilder’s play “Our Town” you can imagine a small rural community in New England. To me it feels like a beautiful dream. YMMV. Your mileage may vary, but that’s my reaction to So.Hadley.</p>

<p>Imagine a well balanced in a triangle of 3 towns: So.Hadley, Amherst, Northampton. South Hadley (Mt.Holyoke) is closer to Amherst (l5 minutes) with Hampshire College along the way, as mentioned above. University of Massachusetts is also in the town of Amherst, with very ordinary buildings/highrise dorms all on one side of town and not visible from the town’s center. UMass adds some 25,000 students to the community, and I agree that Amherst is best described as suburban, but with historic roots as a small town from the l600’s. </p>

<p>Smith to Amherst usually takes 25-30 min (except for rush hour or big weekends). MoHo to Amherst might be l5 minutes. Smith to MoHo, I’m guessing l5 minutes. Please double check this with students. </p>

<p>It’s true, as another poster said above, that there’s constant car traffic on the two-lane “Route 9” between Northampton and Amherst to slow the bus. But, to be fair, traffic is at its very worst when the PARENTS clog the community for orientation, homecoming or and graduation weekends, when I also recall 45 minutes. Ask students what’s normal because it’s actually only a l0-mile distance, but traffic-y. </p>

<p>There’s much more happening in the city of Northampton than in South Hadley so it’s more of a community cultural destination than is South Hadley, where you might go outside to see the stars at night. </p>

<p>There’s an unusual mountain ridge that divides South Hadley from all the rest, although if you’re from the West you’ll laugh that’s even called “mountain.” It’s a gentle group of hills, but they run East-West. It’s the only East-West ridge of its size east of the Mississippi; usually they run North-South. So it’s a physical barrier, but hardly, and the bus goes right through it. </p>

<p>Co-curricular activities bring students onto each others’ campus, as well as the courses. For example, I saw theater productions at Amherst College with actors from Mt. Holyoke, dancers from Smith. Concerts, clubs and seminars at Smith attract men and women from all the other schools.</p>

<p>I’m surprised no one has yet repeated the old adage, “Smith to Bed, Mt Holyoke to Wed.” Or was it the other way around? I forget…</p>

<p>Smithies are know for being more argumentative. Northampton has its charms, but South Hadley is really beautiful. At Mt Holyoke the Art Museum is stunning, as is the greenhouse, and oh yeah, you can take riding lessons and even board your horse. </p>

<p>The local food movement is very strong in “the Happy Valley” (as many locals refer to it) and the Connecticut River Valley actually makes both S. Hadley and Northampton warmer than a lot of other places in New England. You will find superb teachers at both schools.</p>

<p>Smith has some grad students and a much bigger endowment. I’ve had friends who teach at both schools who’ve asserted that Mt Holyoke is better in the sciences while Smith is better in the Humanities…</p>

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<p>LOL. Yes, we did drive very slowly to make sure we weren’t missing anything (we weren’t), and also because the campus is quite beautiful. It really is. But the main reason it took us 2 minutes is that we turned over the bridge and ended up out by the horse barns where someone was leading a very slow horse across the road, so it took us a little while to turn around and get back to the main highway. All the while DD—who mostly grew up in Manhattan and who at the age of 5, while we were driving through a typical leafy Chicago neighborhood of 2-flat and 3-flat buildings, announced that she liked Chicago because “Chicago is out in the country, and I like being out in the country”—was consternating about how far it might be to the nearest subway stop and how many days it might take to get from South Hadley to the nearest decent Indian restaurant.</p>

<p>I’m sure many people love it, but it’s intensely small town/rural. Except just a few miles south of South Hadley is a really beat-up and bedraggled old industrial town—Holyoke, I think, but maybe Chicopee—that time and all the responsible parties seem to have forgotten 50 years ago or more. I had forgotten what old New England mill towns look like after they’ve lost their industry. This one’s frozen in that moment. A chilling sight.</p>

<p>Both schools have strong art depts and impressive collections (not uncommon for a women’s college and probably dating back to when well-bred, well-educated, accomplished young women were expected to paint and play an instrument) - - but I thought Smith’s collection was about twice as large as MHC’s. Not sure which is stronger in humanities, but it’s hard to believe that Smith is lagging in the sciences - - it’s the only women’s college w/ an on-site engineering program and a brand new science/engineering building.</p>

<p>So. Hadley is beautiful, but there’s very little to do in town. Noho offers much more, so much so that despite the relative ease of travel b/w MHC to the other schools, EVERYONE goes to Noho, which was recently voted one of the best college towns.</p>

<p>Remember, too, that you’re going for the school, and not to hang out in town! :slight_smile: Both schools are great, and they’re gonna have you working pretty hard, so don’t imagine yourself spending hours on end wandering the shops… The most important things to find out have more to do with the course offerings, professors, facilities, and that great intangible, the student “vibe”.</p>

<p>My D and I visited both schools (seven years ago!) and found they had different personalities completely. Smith is larger and has a greater variety of dorms (houses), which may sound trivial, but because all your meals are taken in your house, and it’s the center of social life at Smith, the houses are important. Smith has a good pre-engineering program. I thought MHC had a beautiful campus…</p>

<p>I preferred Smith; my D preferred neither and ended up applying to Bard and Wesleyan (of the schools we saw on that trip). (She ended up at Reed.)</p>

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<p>Smith eliminated dining in a number houses. Whole other story.</p>