<p>“Smith has a good pre-engineering program.”</p>
<p>It is not a pre-engineering program, but a fully ABET-accredited engineering program. And with a 3.5 GPA from it, one is guaranteed admission into the engineering graduate programs at Notre Dame, UMichigan, Johns Hopkins, Darmouth, Tufts, and Princeton.</p>
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<p>That guarantee was removed from the webpage a couple of yrs ago.</p>
<p>When researching the program, I was informed by the Linda Jones, if the truth be told, a woman with 3.5 GPA undergrad engineering degree would almost certainly be accepted anyway. No guarantee is needed.</p>
<p>CrewDad: thank you for providing up-to-date information.</p>
<p>For whatever reason, among the kids I know (i.e., the friends of my children), Smith and Holyoke are not really seen as direct competitors. Smith attracts applicants (and matriculants) whose academic resumes are much glossier. Both my children have close friends at Smith, and two of them graduated in the top 5 (<1%) of their high school classes, at a school where most of the kids at that level wind up at an Ivy or close equivalent. One was salutatarian, an all-City athlete, a fine actress and musician, and a three-year winner of the school’s public speaking competition (with guess whose kid coming in second the last two years, with a runoff round in 12th grade), and Smith was her first choice wire-to-wire. I only know one woman who went to Holyoke in the past 10 years. She was a lovely, solid person, and a very good athlete, but a merely decent student at a second-tier high school.</p>
<p>I have a close friend whose two girls chose each different school. Just a matter of personal preference.</p>
<p>JHS’s experience is not echoed in our community. The same women apply to all five of the women’s colleges, though not necessarily all five.</p>
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<p>Tell your D there’s a great Indian restaurant in Amherst. My youngest D went to a high school soccer camp in the area for a few years. H and I would always go to the restaurant after we dropped her off.</p>
<p>My D visited both schools (as well as Amherst) on a college visit to the area. We definitely felt there was a difference in the two colleges. IMO Smith seemed like a more vibrant and diverse community, but that’s based on a tour and info session and spending some time in Northampton, i.e., a first impression. </p>
<p>There are many old mill towns in MA similar to the one you saw (Fall River, New Bedford, Lawerence, Lowell, etc. etc.) I don’t know how places like that will ever come back.</p>
<p>My daughter and I did quick visits to both last year and our experience mimics the comments of most posters. Smith seemed more energetic and earthy while MHC was more of a classic campus and beautiful … (almost urban versus leafy suburb feel). Two great schools … I highly recommend visiting both as I’d bet one will grab you while the other will not … which one grabs who is totally dependent on the student!</p>
<p>India House in Northampton is pretty darned good. D insisted that we include it on her last round of restaurant meals before we left and I didn’t complain.</p>
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<p>Odd, because Mt. Holyoke’s middle 50% SATs are actually a bit higher than Smith’s: 1150-1380 at Smith, versus 1230-1420 at Mt. Holyoke. In other respects, e.g., number of applicants and acceptance rate, they’re almost identical.</p>
<p>I know that. I’m just reporting what I see.</p>
<p>If it makes you feel any better, I don’t know of any women who have gone to Wellesley, either.</p>
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<p>SATs were optional at MHC during the reporting period. Only 60% of the MHC applicants reported scores–obviously the higher scorers. Smith recently became SAT optional. Next reporting period will show a significant change. MHC and Smith are within 2 percentage points of matriculated women in the top 10% of graduating class.</p>
<p>Being very familiar with both colleges, I don’t believe it’s accurate to say Smith’s academic resumes are much glossier. </p>
<p>The number of cross-applicants is significant.</p>
<p>Ok…all of the above comments are true! I will only add my few cents…</p>
<p>D #2 looked at MoHo and although she <em>liked</em> it and was accepted, she didn’t love it. She was not overly impressed with the caliber of student there. She expected a very high level of commitment to academics and intelligent young women, and maybe she was just in the wrong classes to shadow, but she was whipping answers in her head and the class was stumped. That was in Chem and I think Spanish. The girls she met at lunch she felt were rather materialistic. Remember, just her impressions here. The campus is indeed very pretty, the art museum is nice (I would not say fabulous esp if you have been to large museums). It is country-suburban, not really rural but close. </p>
<p>D #2 attends Hampshire. Her BF is at Smith. It does have a totally different feel and I would agree with the above posters re: the intensity. Ditto Lesbianism, that comment was accurate. High percentage if that is something that is important to you. The BF does not like Smith and tried unsuccessfully to transfer. Reason? The attitude by faculty and staff that you are a “Smith girl/woman” and that is all that matters. In fact, my D’s room mate this past year at Hampshire was a Smith transfer. She felt it was very narrow minded. Also Smith does not encourage courses within the consortium according to all 3 of them as “why would you want to do anything anywhere else?”. However they would all say that Smith has a higher intellectual level over MoHo, more in line with Wellesley. </p>
<p>Money wise, Smith is generous if you need it, ditto MH. When we visited MH they told us quite frankly that if accepting a student over another student came down to $$ they would take the one who needed less money. My D and her BF have both heard that Smith is accepting more students of lower educational standing if they have the ability to pay and don’t need finaid. FWIW. I do not know where they stand on transfers. </p>
<p>The Pioneer Valley is a fabulous place to be for college students unless you want a city life. Boston is a couple of hours away. But with UMass, Hampshire, Smith, MH and Amherst all w/i 20 minutes of each other there is so much to do. My D says she will never get to experience it all. It is stunning in the fall and cold but all of New England is, in the winter. They usually get plenty of snow. The Smith campus has lovely old houses for many of their dorms and they, too, have traditions especially w/i the houses. All the women’s colleges have traditions. See if you can talk with an alum from each place. That will give you a sense of the school, I think. You might also consider Wellesley which is 15 min outside Boston, near the M of Fine Arts, all that Boston offers and is a lovely campus in a mid sized town. Good luck!</p>
<p>We have to get our acronyms straight. (No pun intended.) It took me awhile to figure out what the “BF” was doing at Smith. I thought it was all veddy, veddy modern, until it occurred to me that BF might = BFF.</p>
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<p>That’s silly. Smith is need blind for the first 95 % of applicants. The college is very upfront about the fact in some years the last 5% of evaluations are need-sensitive. Smith, MHC, nor any college, is foolish enough to jeopardize its academic standing by lowering its standards. A slippery slope indeed.'t</p>
<p>Edit: Budgets are done a number of years in advance. Financial aid total dollars remained the same despite the downturn.</p>
<p>As someone looking at Smith and MHC, I really am glad to see this thread. I’ll contribute my thoughts on the two schools.</p>
<p>MHC seems to be a bit preppier and a little bit more isolated
Smith seems much more intense, and more rigorous</p>
<p>I might apply to both, but Smith is def. my first choice</p>
<p>The reputation of both schools, as far as right here in the 5-college area, is stellar–excellent, highly qualified kids go to both. Not the experience of JHS at all. There is definitely a reputation for Smithies to be more driven, intense, issues-oriented (primarily questions of gender/sexuality are very big at Smith in all arenas), while Holyoke is seen as a somewhat more relaxed student body with less agenda-driven academics. Both schools are terrific, and both have full access to the 5-College exchange, which can be just great. And yes, the Indian restaurant in Amherst is quite good! 
In fact, there are lots of good restaurants in Amherst, some cute ones in So. Hadley, and a bazillion in Noho.</p>
<p>My D just graduated from Barnard, so I have no horse in this race. I think distinctions about campus atmosphere, such as driven vs non-driven, issues oriented vs laid back are helpful.</p>
<p>However, it is painful to read of any of the seven sister schools (well, the remaining five that is) jockeying for position to be seen better than her sisters.</p>
<p>Probably all five have been guilty of this at some time. Now particular schools seem to be convinced that they are superior. However, all five schools offer an excellent education as does Vassar the once seven sister school.</p>
<p>Smith and Mt. Holyoke’s stats are virtually identical, even down to admit rate.</p>
<p>Although Smith has been credited with more diversity here, Mt. Holyoke has the more international community.</p>
<p>“Better” is not only a relative term, but as with “beauty,” it is in the eye of the beholder. For D, who is black and interested in architecture/engineering, the larger number of domestic black students, the on-site engineering program, the open curric, the unparalleled array of courses (landscaping minor at a LAC!!) and Noho just a few steps from campus, Smith was far and away a better choice than MHC. OTOH, if Smith had been just a subway ride away in at W116th Street instead of 3hrs away in Noho, even the lure of Columbia across the street would have been insufficient to coax D (who complains about having to make an effort to meet men) to consider applying.</p>
<p>My sense is that Smith students are, as others have noted, a bit more intense than their Moho sisters, and the Smithies tend to present a stronger admissions profiles (based on students offered 21st Century awards as MHC, but who were offered only STRIDEs at Smith). And Wellesley students are rumored to present stronger profiles than the Smithies. </p>
<p>Sure, you can rank the sister schools, just as one can argue endlessly about Amherst vs Williams vs Swatty or H vs Y vs P - - but it’s really splitting hairs.</p>
<p>Um this is really splitting hairs, but Barnard and Columbia are not really across the street from one another.</p>
<p>They are virtually one school.</p>
<p>D did not go across to the street “to meet men.” 40% of her courses were there. And there were men in each and every single Barnard class except first year seminars.</p>
<p>She preferred Barnard to Smith because she is a very urban creature and she felt Smith is cultish. Her words.</p>
<p>I did not want to post this at all, but it does pain me to see how subtly putting other schools down seems necessary to burnish Smith’s image.</p>
<p>I do think it’s wide array of courses is fabulous. I also think Noho is one of my favorite places.</p>
<p>However, I think the Leadership Institute at Moho is great, and the PhD production at Bryn Mawr is great.</p>
<p>And Barnard/Columbia have more classes than any one could ever make use of.</p>
<p>I don’t think that makes Barnard a different school, though the applicants do have pretty glossy profiles.</p>