Anybody with insights as to how these compare academically, socially and other opportunities such as internships or study abroad?
What about work load?I don’t mind working hard but I am wary of super competitive environments-like my high school-and would like to avoid overt grade deflation.
I am a CA guy interested in getting out of state for some new experiences.
I am interested in psychology, cognitive science or political science and am considering law school.
Both schools were generous with aid but SMU is more expensive so it will cost about $6000/year more.
I’ll present a UR side, I guess.
On the academics side, UR is definitely a strong choice for those topics. Also, their focus on pushing interdisciplinary work and undergraduate research would be awesome for people into research (and law school). I don’t think the school is that keen on grade deflation, but I’m well aware that UR is generally considered above average in class difficulty. I will say that I have experienced a very collaborative environment thus far and have found study groups to be something of a norm for harder classes. I will note that UR is supposed to be one of the best schools for internships, employment, and study abroad experience if rankings are anything to go by (off the top of may head, they were recently bragging about being #3 on Princeton Review for Best Schools for Internships among other things), and you’ll have plenty of opportunity to intern, work, or volunteer in the city.
Have you visited either by chance? I’m not familiar with SMU so I can’t give any comparison, but I’m sure a Christian university would probably have a very different feel versus a university like Richmond. Not saying it’s good or bad, but it is different and most students usually gravitate to one over the other.
I have not visited either one yet.
I am planning to attend Experience Richmond in a week or so.
One of the reasons that I am asking on the SMU thread is that, at least here on CC many, many people speak very highly of UR and it is obvious they love it.
I don’t want to dismiss my opportunity to attend SMU (Honors) but visiting is expensive unless I am super excited about it. There don’t seem to be as many people who just love SMU in the same way.
It may just be the CC crowd, but I would be very interested to hear what people like-and would change- about both schools, especially SMU.
SMU has a wealthy preppy vibe. Both schools are offer solid business programs. You really should visit both schools before deciding.
^ Seconded, word for word.
I have heard the “wealthy preppy” thing about UR as well.
Is it more prominent at SMU as far as the social scene?
I am not wealthy but I have been attending a private high school so I don’t mind a little of that.
The main thing I don’t like is arrogant, uppity people.
Is that what you are talking about at SMU?
Oh, and it will end up costing about $25,000 more.
Just wondering if anyone at all thinks it is worth it??
Wealthy, preppy vibe is not exactly a convincing commendation.
I think at both you may find that vibe. Here (SMU) its more concentrated on a group of people completely uninvolved on campus, so I never interact with them. I have found a wide range of leadership opportunities and a diverse student body. The connections have been incredible, so finding a job was easy. Also as a d1 sports fan, its nice to have rooting interest for football. 12/10 would recommend, message me if you have other questions.
I can’t say anything about UR. And all I know about SMU is when I took my D there for a college visit in February and by talking to others who went there. We are from CA also. She will definitely be applying - she really liked the school. Southwest flies direct to Love Field which is 10 minutes from campus. It’s a cheap ticket and you should really go and take a look for yourself.
SMU is a beautiful campus in the middle of Dallas. Internships are easy to come by - at least what we were looking for my D. I am not sure about your particular areas, but you are in a huge city - I can’t imagine it would be difficult. That is a large factor in her decision vs. looking at other schools that were much more remote. The SMU alumni connection is outstanding - one of the best around.
I think the whole arrogant, uppity people vibe is blown WAY out of proportion. Sure - there are wealthy people there, and you will find that at U of R too. But everyone we interacted with and know who go there were down to earth. Between those two schools, that is not your make-or-break decision.
Look at your particular program and the classes they have to offer at each school. I found that to be extremely helpful in the decision making process. Not only if they have a major you like, but an abundance of interesting looking classes. I looked at UR briefly for my D, and although it looks like a great school, her particular program she was interested in seemed a little light in the class choices.
Dallas > Richmond
I lived near Dallas for several years, and though I didn’t dislike the city, I very much disagree-
Richmond > Dallas.
Ok, so is it possible that SMU needs more of an official CC presence or are there less true fans?
I agree that both Dallas and Richmond seem like great cities-though personally I might favor Richmond-but why would anyone choose SMU?
Lots of people have thoughtfully explained why they chose Richmond. I am honestly leaning that direction–though getting to Richmond from CA is not as easy or cheap…
Is there anything awesome about SMU?
Did anyone else come down to choosing between these schools?
@jamesk2014 Can you respond? You have been very helpful in the past. Knows a lot of people who applied/ transferred from places like Vandy and others I can’t recall. He loves the school and can answer a lot of questions.
The CC board on SMU is pretty light, except for those who always talk about the social scene vs. the academics.
But if you are talking about the price getting to Richmond, you would be saving $25k right off the top so that can buy you a lot of plane tickets. The convenience factor is not there, however.
I don’t know about anyone transferring here from vandy, I have friends here that chose SMU over Vandy, and my best friend is at Vandy so I see the differences. I do have friends who transferred from Emory, Tulane, UMaimi (OH), Umiami Fl., NYU. A few small liberal arts schools, etc.
People choose SMU for the academics, the city, and the network. There are few places in the country that have a network that can rival smu and it will preserve you for post grad.
The cities are different I prefer the opportunity of Dallas and the uptown/ highland park area tht the school is in are some of the nicest in the country. Many more people looking at richmond are also looking at the schools in the northeast so it is also smaller (1000 a class) so less people do look at both.
SMU has an awesome arts collection, easy ways to get involved at the top. We have nine student reps to the board of trustees among others. We also have higher competition in both football and basketball. The game day experience is hard to beat with tailgates happening on campus at the boulevard.
The advantage of the bush library and the speakers he has brought to campus rival my friends at more prestigious schools and afford incredible outside the class opportunities. There are 8 lectures a year (very major ones) and then special ones sprinkled in (Jeff Bezos is coming to campus in a few weeks).
All the opportunities during your experience coupled with the excellent post-graduation prospects are what set it apart for me. It will certainly be fit, but try and check out the area on google maps it is close to the city, without the noise of the city in a beautiful area, it makes the difficult classes somewhat better.
If you are leaning towards Richmond and already have a trip planned there, then go visit with the intention of that being the school. If the travel distance and logistics are things you can see yourself dealing with (think also about getting your stuff there - hopefully you can fly Southwest and take free luggage) and if the people and environment are what you were hoping for then I think you should commit and not spend the money to look at SMU also. Since it is quite possible that you will spend your years after graduation in that area, or the east coast, you should make sure you are OK with that too. Most of your professional contacts and alumni base will be there.
If your trip to Richmond leaves you with some doubts, then book a trip ASAP to SMU and check it out. This was the situation my daughter was in last year. She had an amazing offer at Tulane and we thought that was going to be the school she would commit to. However, our visit did not go too well and she was left with doubts about attending. I put her on a plane, by herself, to visit SMU again for Destination SMU. I had taken her there about 1.5 years before during my homecoming weekend and, while she liked it, it was too much “mom’s” school. Anyway, within a couple of hours of Destination SMU starting, she texted me and said she had found her school. She met lots of friendly students and it felt so much better than at Tulane (for her!) I had warned her about the stereo-types of SMU students but I knew that, from my experience even decades earlier, that the school was made up of people from all types of backgrounds and whether they had money or not did not necessarily determine what kind of people or friends they would be. She is a freshman and has had so many opportunities to be involved in campus organizations and she is very happy. She would probably like to come back to Arizona eventually but loves what Dallas has to offer and would be totally OK with working in Dallas / Austin / TX too.
I think you’ll be very happy at Richmond but this is truly a case where you won’t know until you at least visit. Your opportunities should be similar and, in both cases, it will be up to you to take advantage of them. You might consider booking flights on Southwest now to Dallas and, if you are happy with UR, then you can get them applied towards credit for when you fly out for orientation, etc. to Richmond next time.
@labrad00dle agree 75% Richmond > Dallas
Mainly due to climate, how pretty Richmond can be, both have great food and much to do.
FWIW, my eldest son went to a school “slightly to the west” of SMU. His best friend from HS went to Richmond. When accepted at Richmond, this young man received the usual “wow…great school” compliments. When he visited my son at TCU, (as a junior), he expressed his regret at choosing Richmond and said that were he to do it all over, he would have chosen a school like TCU. In his words, Richmond was dull and overrated. He didn’t hate it, but he regretted his choice, and as a 2nd semester junior, there’s no retracing your steps. Post-grad, it took him 9 months to find a job, while my son had a job the day after his last class ended.
Now, TCU is not SMU, but the schools are often compared to each other. My youngest chose SMU for his major and for the myriad of internship and post-grad opportunities offered in the DFW Metroplex. Look at all of the companies relocating HQ or ops centers to DFW. The alumni network is outstanding. The campus is gorgeous, the weather can be hot in September and October, but is generally pretty nice. As parents, we were impressed with the level of academic support provided to SMU students. If you struggle, help is always there. Plus, it’s easy to get to SMU. Dallas is a direct flight from most cities, and if you fly into Love Field, it’s a quick 10 minute ride to campus.
I realize that there are likely many CC members who have had a great time at Richmond, but I am just sharing one viewpoint. YMMV. Best of luck with your decision.
Thank you everyone for all the detailed responses.
I guess I will attend the accepted students day at UR this weekend and see how it goes.
I have done further research about both schools and they both seem fantastic–but I still wonder if SMU is worth more in the long run.
The Richmond Guarantee seems like a great opportunity for summer internships.
There are fewer people from my high school that have heard of Richmond and that kind of bothered me at first, but now I think it’s kind of cool…
Much of SMU’s preppy and wealthy reputation comes from years past as it has a tradition, like many private schools in affluent areas, of being favored by children of the upper middle class (I think the “wealthy” term can be overused, as there are certainly gradations of wealth). If you review past Common Data Sets, however, you will note a steep rise in average grades and test scores of entering students, which speaks to a different type of student than 20 years ago. SMU has extremely strong alumni networks in Dallas, and the idea (suggested above) that Richmond is better than Dallas for internships and jobs is ludicrous (Dallas-Ft Worth metro area is 6x size of Richmond and you will face competition from far more comparable students from local colleges in Richmond, such as UVA, W&M, W&L, etc.). I personally am not fond of Dallas, but it is one of the leading business centers in the country and SMU is located in the prettiest and nicest part of town.