sniffing around the BA/s without being insulting

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>So, we are rounding out D's list and trying to find a few great BA options. </p>

<p>We all know (or so I've been told) that at some schools, if they offer a BFA as well, that the there is a definite negative bias against the BA kids compared to the BFA kids as being more "serious" about the craft. Oh of course they get to audition, but the professors know the BFA kids better and in some schools there may be classes or programs not available to the BA's. (at SFA for example, the fabulous study abroad program is only for the BFA's.) We also know there are schools where the philosophy is that a well rounded liberal arts degree is first and foremost and that there is no compensation for not being a well educated thoughtful person and that such qualities make for a better actor, and their BA program is very good and produces graduates who are very well prepared for a profession as a performer. These schools might also have very good music and dance programs where a student interested in MT could get a lot of extra voice and movement if they wanted to.</p>

<p>So there are these two schools of thought and most people are in one camp or the other, and I can see both sides of the argument. We also know that BFA and BA from one school to another are widely varied and it's kind of a relative term. D and I think that she falls in the middle - she does like academics (except for math) and she doesn't want a true conservatory education in that she doesn't want to have no or very minimum general classes. But she does want a conservatory experience in that she does want her theater department to be SERIOUS about theater and not what I call a "token" department. By token department I mean that it's clear that theater isn't a big priority to that particular university (every school has it's shining stars and it's not so shining stars, after all) and it mostly exists for the purpose of producing education majors. As opposed to the schools that flat out brag (with good reason) about the quality and depth of their theatre programs.</p>

<p>(I mean, no school comes out and says "well, we have a mediocre theatre program if you really WANT to do that, the theater is over behind the mechanical building dumpsters somewhere" but there are clues as to how much a university has invested in their performing arts. And not to denigrate the professors who might be very dedicated and talented, but if the system is limiting them, I think they can only compensate for so much.)</p>

<p>So she'd be happy in a BA where there is a lot of opportunity to get extra classes and experiences, lots of shows, summer programs, internships, etc. OR, in a BFA where the quality of the rest of her education is still pretty good. But mainly what I want is for her not to have any built in hurdles in the program itself that she has to fight. I mean, why sign up for that when there are SO many schools to chose from? Time enough to beat her head against the wall after she graduates. I believe college is a time for training, not for "getting used to rejection." If she just wants to get used to being rejected and as a result not having access to the best possible training, well hell she hop a bus to NY NY and do that for free. ha ha.</p>

<p>So when I call these schools with BA programs, or schools with a BA and a BFA also, how do I delicately ask if they either aren't really that much geared towards a professional program (in the case of the BA) or if they consider the BA's mostly bound for teaching and reserve a lot of the desirable experiences for the BFAs? </p>

<p>Or is this something that the faculty will be quite frank and open about and I shouldn't worry about how to ask it? I did talk with one BA program this week and the guy immediately knew just what I was asking about and he was very frank and helpful in explaining what his program was and was not. (and it sounds like a GREAT BA program too, 3 HUGELY famous and talented actors are alumni) But it was a BA program that did not offer a BFA also and I'm thinking the issue of "how do you treat your BA's" might require a bit more tact that "does your BA program prepare them for a profession as opposed to teaching."</p>

<p>So...advice?</p>

2

<p>With schools that just have a BA, I would not presume the aim is a profession in teaching. Look for BAs that have a performance track or lots of coursework in acting and related things. While a BA is not a professional degree program and one idea is to do a BA + MFA, plenty of BA programs have quite a bit of performance oriented coursework and production opportunities and are not simply the study of theater. Examine the curriculum and “tracks” if they have “tracks” within the major. Find out if graduates have gone onto performing careers.</p>

<p>If the school has a BA and BFA, ask the differences. Examine the BA curriculum. Find out what courses are open to the BA students. Find out about casting opportunities and which shows are open to BA students to audition and ask current students if BA students are truly cast in department productions that are open to both BFA and BA students. </p>

<p>I don’t like to paint with a broad brush stroke, but overall, I would have SOME hesitancy about attending a BA in theater program at a school that also has a BFA program but would double check directly. In some cases, the BA is “second fiddle” to the BFA and casting opportunities may also be more limited in terms of the competition. There are just too many really good BA Theater programs without a BFA and I’d prefer if I were seeking a BA, to attend a school where the BA is the CORE of the theater program. Examples: Skidmore, Brandeis, Vassar, Northwestern, Muhlenberg.</p>

<p>PS, in my opinion, the student, not the parent, should contact faculty directly to ask specific questions about the program. I think faculty would prefer that as well.</p>

3

<p>there is a definite difference between the BFA and BA programs here at USC, I’m aware of that. BFAs have a BFA show every year, as far as I can tell. It obviously gives them an advantage in being cast in more shows over their time here. Some of the BFAs do have a superiority complex, too, it’s true, and it is kind of hurtful, but there are also a lot of BFAs who are incredibly nice people. I have two friends who are freshman BFAs and they are among the nicest people I’ve ever met, and there’s no “oh, you’re a BA” condescension or anything like that. I think it is harder for the BAs to make a name for themselves in the theatre department just based on sheer numbers, but there are quite a number of BAs who do so. I think it just takes more work/perseverance.</p>

<p>That’s just my perspective about USC. I didn’t apply for the BFA because I knew I wanted to study musical theatre and film. I would love to be a BFA and spend all that time acting, but I love more being able to have the freedom to study other things.</p>

4

<p>Good and thoughtful answers - thank you!</p>

<p>Soozie - you said "in my opinion, the student, not the parent, should contact faculty directly to ask specific questions about the program. I think faculty would prefer that as well. " and I absolutely agree but there’s a logistics problem - she leaves for school at 7:30 to do private rehearsals before school (she’s Tracy in Hairspray! wheee!) and she’s at school until after five for rehearsals. I have found that they don’t really answer the phone at schools before 8:00 or after 5:00. So she’s not really able to call during their office hours - she has an hour between the end of school and the start of rehearsal a couple days a week but she’s having her coaching then! Oh, and there’s no way she can call during school, they’d swoop down and confiscate her phone. If she even had time, which she doesn’t.</p>

<p>How can she get ahold of them? I wonder if she could email that she wanted to talk to them but explain her schedule and make an appointment to talk on the phone after hours.</p>

5

<p>She can do a lot by email-- D has had very good luck that way-- often they’ll put a student in touch with her so she can get some very candid and helpful answers…better than would be likely over the phone. </p>

<p>And not to state the obvious, but websites can really be goldmines-- look at the classes required for a theater major and right away you can tell which places you’d be more interested in. Then you can go from there, seeing who the faculty are, what plays they’ve done recently, etc., etc. It seems as if there are more and more performance oriented, auditioned BA’s-- I seem to stumble over one every day (University of Tampa was today’s). Of course with the audition you can’t be 100% sure so you’d still need a solid backup-- but you can find programs that have a lot to offer and where a good audition is likely to stand you in pretty good stead. </p>

<p>One thing about the arts is that there are so many really dedicated artists, in every field, who are grateful to have teaching jobs, that you can find great professors in places that might seem unlikely. (Connections to the business, less so, but I certainly know people who’ve done wonderfully well coming from lesser known programs. A great student and a great teacher can go a long way together.)</p>

6

<p>She’s interested in Tampa, too! It would be quite a deal to visit any time soon but maybe later in the spring. She does love Florida. </p>

<p>Yes, a good BA program would suit her fine. She’d be fine with a BFA that didn’t sacrifice a solid general liberal arts background too - the one thing that has comforted me most through all of this is the knowledge that she’s really not one to get hung up on labels. She’s all about what the actual experience is going to be like and she knows that all that really matters is where the best fit is for her. And I really do think by the time we are done with the process she’ll know where that is.</p>

<p>But OY it’s a lot of work!</p>

<p>She’s actually doing her independent research project on this - she’s creating a custom designed course and guide for want to be theater majors from our region, with info on the dif’s between BA’s and BFA’s and an overview of most of the options within an 8 hour drive of us plus a few selected far off options. This is kind of a cool thing to do because her theater class isn’t weighted like an AP or DC class, but if she does this independent research project in it, they’ll weight it like an honors class which should help as the sky would certainly be falling if she got less than a A in theater. (knock on wood - last semester was the first time EVER she didn’t make a 100 and that’s when she did her first IR project so naturally she ended up with a 93 somehow. I swear her teacher did it out of spite. :-p Not really. I guess. lol. But a weighted anything is better, so she might as well put all she’s learning to even more good use and also help out the kids coming up behind her, if they can’t be talked out of going into theater either!</p>

7

<p>As far as contact with the schools…
This is simply my opinion. I think parents can do things like make calls to line up audition appointments, flights, information sessions, and other logistics and secretarial tasks. I think that the direct contact with professors and department heads should be between student and faculty. </p>

<p>I totally understand the student not being able to make calls during the work day! Believe me, I had two daughters who left the home early in the morning and got back into the night every day all through their schooling. Not to mention that cell phones didn’t work where the high school was located (we’re rural). My kids contacted department heads and faculty prior to their visits to ask to meet with them, to observe their class or if they had specific questions. This was all done via email. I think this is easier for all concerned anyway. I have never spoken to faculty on behalf of my kids when they were applicants or once they were in college. </p>

<p>I have a daughter applying to grad programs right now and she is living in Europe. She has a big time difference. She has written every program…either dept. head or faculty in her area to ask very specific questions before deciding whether or not to apply. All wrote back but actually they wanted to chat with her by phone and lined up times that worked for both (given the time difference). I realize that is grad school but in any case, email was the first point of communication. And I’m surely not involved. My D has chosen to share her drafts with me to see but I’m not directly involved. I’m just “support personnel.”</p>

8

<p>Just hearing about the differences between the BFA and BA programs at CCU, I would suggest she ask questions like:
Can BAs audition for all productions (mainstage/second stage/musicals and straight plays/etc.)
Do BAs and BFAs take the same acting classes? If no, do the same faculty teach the acting classes for both BAs and BFAs?
If interested in voice/dance, are those classes open to BAs? If they are, are there ever any actual openings in the classes for the BAs?</p>

<p>As soozie pointed out, looking at the actual 4 year curriculum can be so helpful in narrowing down the list. And of course, talk to a current student if she can. My D knows BAs at several schools that also have BFA programs who are really happy with their choices. But is does vary widely so I think it’s great your D is really doing her research - and really cool that the is putting that research together for her school!</p>

9

<p>Well, time available for in depth research has been might dear and scarce but she is giving a great deal of thought as to what kind of program she wants, and as we go along she’s getting an idea of what to ask and what to look at. I am pleased that she has been able to discern at least two schools that she really did not think had programs that were a good fit for her.</p>

<p>I’ve had to sort of show her how to investigate a school because she had never really done that sort of thing before (it’s kind of like being asked what you want to order at a restaurant without having been given a menu) but she’s starting to catch on and internalize the process. She didn’t have any idea the difference between a BFA and a BA at the beginning of this process. One helpful thing was some of the early college visits over the past summer and the professors who visited with her were very nice about explaining some of the general information as well as the specifics of their own school. </p>

<p>I know it’s impractical and just about impossible to visit every “maybe” school on the list, but I think visiting the 3 or 4 schools closest to us were an invaluable experience for her to get a look at the “menu” so she’d know what to ask for, in a manner of speaking.</p>

<p>I think once (general) you really understand and are familiar with all the variations possible in a program and know what you do and don’t want, the questions flow naturally. At the beginning of the process she’d have to have read questions off of a list and I’m not sure she would have even really understood what she was asking or the answers - she has never been exposed to any of this vocabulary, she has not had any close friends or older siblings go through any of this process yet so it’s still kind of overwhelming to her.</p>

<p>But she’s catching on.</p>

10

<p>This is a great conversation, and I really appreciate your starting it. Good luck to your D!</p>

<p>We have been in much the same position, and I’d say my D has also learned what works for her and what doesn’t, by a combination of website/curriculum research, and how she’s felt at the campuses she’s been able to see. I’d say that after a few good visits, she can make much better choices from the websites of schools we can’t visit yet. It just does take time, and the best advice we were ever given was that for the performing arts (as with some other majors) kids do have to start much earlier than kids looking at “regular” schools. Luckily we got that advice when she was in 10th grade!</p>

<p>There’s also some of this that will have to be left to chance, or to fate, or to knowing that nothing will be perfect and you have to make things what you want. My D has a varied list of BFAs and BAs (both auditioned and not). There is such a big difference between choosing among possible schools to apply to, and choosing among the schools that actually accept you. It’s a long, multi-step process. And she’s also very aware that she’ll continue to have choices once she’s in the program she chooses, and as she plan her steps for after college. </p>

<p>What I think will help my D is that she is not idealistic; she looks carefully at elements of certain programs and carefully at the school in general (criteria pertaining to how happy she’d be spending 4 years there). She uses specific needs she’s developed and she listens to her gut. Also, she decided a while ago not to try for any early commitments; she wants the whole year to get as much of a feel for the schools and for what she wants as possible.</p>

<p>What I’m impressed with is her patience - she’s more patient than I am, much of the time. She wants to digest the process properly, and she also doesn’t want to ruin her school year completely by obsessing over this alone. Balance is really important to her.</p>

<p>Having mentors to help, and advice here and elsewhere, are all invaluable. And also sometimes we have to just pick a path and go with it. And I think that the application-audition-acceptance process will send my D down a path that will be right for her. So far she’s done a pretty good job with her role.</p>

<p>The only thing I’d suggest to anyone is to ask a lot of questions and try to see a lot of specifics. But that can be hard for teenagers, since they tend to like to have answers “sewn up.” I think the only way to get past that is to have a clear understanding that these decisions can’t be scientific, and we’ll constantly re-evaluate, that there’s no shame in that. What’s important is the long journey, and there are no dead ends.</p>