So how did your S/D make THE decision?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Air Force Academy - Colorado Springs
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<p>This thread is directed toward those parents and thier middies/cadets that were lucky enough to recieve more than one Appointment to a Service Academy. With an AF appointment in hand, and anticipating an Annapolis version to follow, I would love to hear how THE ultimate decision was made - i.e. which SA to attend.</p>

<p>First of all, I fully understand that this is the son/daughter’s decision, and that it is not “all about the parents” but as one, I can’t imagine the difficult decision my son will have to make in the coming months if both A’s arrive. Back when I was 17 my big decision was whether or not to put headers on my 69 Chevelle, not “where do I want to spend the next 4 (or 20+) years of my life”…</p>

<p>Now I’m sure that a number of you went thru the “pros and cons” of each academy so I’m hoping that you could offer some advise on how to support a son/daughter with this incredible decision. Note that I’ll be posting this same thread on both the Naval and Air Force forum links so try and keep your answers fair and balanced. Yes, I know “Zoomie all the way” will be the answer here, but I expect the folks over on the NA forum will be saying “It’s the Navy way or nothing” too! :)</p>

<p>Below I’ll throw a few examples of the pro-con quandries my son will be sorting thru - maybe they’ll provoke some suggestions to kick things off:</p>

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<p>Obviously there are a ton of other deciding factors (who gives him a higher chance of becoming a pilot, etc) but I’ll post this thread “wide open” for you experienced folks to comment on, asking for your continued advise on how to support a youngster with the biggest decision of his life.</p>

<p>We all look forward to reading your responses.</p>

<p>Dknightfam</p>

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<p>For my D it was difficult for subjective reasons. Once she looked at the objective issues (i.e. which branch of the military (mission) is she wanting for a career) it fell into place. The question transitioned to after the degree (regardless of your anticipated life at the specific SA) can you envision yourself in the day in / day out of this particular branch of the military? Her conflict was that she preferred one school over the other but the opposite branch in the military for the careeer portion of the commitment. When she was able to verbalize that, it all became easy. Thinking of it in terms of 20 years in a branch of the service that is not optimal for the individual is not an easy thing to envision. She can see herself makeing a life long career in the one service but cannot see doing more than her commitment in the other branch. So, once she recognized that - it was a done deal.</p>

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<p>I couldn't agree more about Momofhopeful's note. It's all about what your son is looking for afterwords. Life in the military branches is VERY different. Start by talking to the career officers in each branch. My son became enamored with the AF becasue of what he saw the graduates doing -- both pilots and those that chose other careers. He began to see himself as an AF officer and this was much more important than the particular classes offerred, or majors or the way the academies looked (although he did find West Point depressing and the beauty of the mountains inspiring in Colorado). He got the sense that that the way the AF took care of their own people was unique and their willingness to support higher education later on a big plus (e.g. to be a major you generally need an advanced degree). When he saw some non-pilot career paths that were exciting, it sealed the deal because he knows that you can never fully count on being PQ's, even though he currently is. Flight probability was important and the stats can be misleading here. I believe that based purely on the number of slots reserved for USAFA grads, the probability of flying is slightly higher than at USNA but this is hotly debated and you will have to look at the numbers for yourself. Good luck to you and your son!</p>

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<p>Great replies so far and thanks for reminding us all of the ultimate goal of going to a SA - i.e. a career in that branch of service. </p>

<p>As someone mentioned on the other forum, just making the decision to pursue a military life itself really is the big decision, so perhaps the choice between multiple SA's shouldn't be as huge as I inferred originally. My son has been planning / working toward this "decision day" for years - a request to attend a month long summer camp at the Valley Forge Military Academy when he was just 9 yrs old started it all. More recently, 3 yrs in the USN Sea Cadet program earning a PO1 rating has proved that he's on the right path. </p>

<p>Of course, as all young 17 yr old males do, he wants to fly fighters, so AF and NA hold somewhat the same regard there (though he's alot more familiar with Navy due to the Sea Cadets and our east coast proximity to Annapolis....). But somewhere along the line he's going to have to make the choice between the two, and hopefully your reminders of what's important will steer him in the right direction....</p>

<p>Keep em coming and thanks for the advise.</p>

<p>Dknightfam</p>

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<p>


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<p>Obviously there are a ton of other deciding factors (who gives him a higher chance of becoming a pilot, etc) but I'll post this thread "wide open" for you experienced folks to comment on, asking for your continued advise on how to support a youngster with the biggest decision of his life.

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<p>Here's my perspective on these questions.</p>

<p>1) While being an IC may help 4 dig year since you miss training sessions and sit at rest at lunch with your team; typically its much more difficult to bond within the squadron and often you may not be looked on highly by uppers or classmates. Really, I think it makes it more difficult, especially AFTER 4 dig year due to squadron jobs or activities. You become a strong unit with the team, but less with the squadron. My experiences, but not everyone is like this.</p>

<p>2) Courses are not very generic. After 3 or 4 semesters, the majority of classes will then be major's courses. One semester I have 15 credits worth of chemistry classes and 3 credits core. So, once 4 dig year is over (and probably a semester of 3 dig), its much more specialized.</p>

<p>3) For the pilot decision. I think the Navy waivers more and the restrictions are much less....but think about the lifestyle. You would be based at sea on the carrier for months at a time. AF, you get to stay on bases for years at a time. Simplification, but it gets the point across.</p>

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<p>The boy came up to me one day in May before he was finished with 8th grade and mentioned he may want to go to an academy, asked if it was like college. After wiping the pop off of the computer screen (because I didn't see that coming!), I gently explained to him what going to an SA entailed. I also wrote down the web sites for him to go on and explore. He asked which one I would pick. I told him it wasn't my choice, it was his.</p>

<p>A couple of weeks later, he comes back and says, "I want to go to the Naval Academy in Annapolis." I told him that was nice, but to look at civilian colleges, too. Daddy went civvie. </p>

<p>After his first "Academy Night," the boy got serious. He finished his Eagle, went to his guidance counc. and told her of his plans, and then sat down with us to discuss high school courses. Then came NASS. </p>

<p>He applied for all three. Army turned him down w/in a week flat. Navy and AFA welcomed him, but AFA interfered with Boy's State and he was already signed up for NASS before the AF came through with their invitation.</p>

<p>Early June saw him fly (away from me for the first time; I CRIED!! But that's another story) to NASS. When he came home, you couldn't shut him up. He loved USNA, everything about it and wanted to go there and only there. We told him to really think about his reasons. </p>

<p>What it came down to was job selection and traditions. The boy is a go, see, and do kid. He would NEVER do well sitting at a desk; not that is all you do in the other services. He wants to be active. Thus, the Navy was his choice. He could sea, land, air. There were lots of choices. More than the AF could offer. </p>

<p>Also, tradition means much to the boy. Army and Navy have longer traditions than the AFA.</p>

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<p>just have to chime in</p>

<p>WP "that school on the Hudson with over 200 years of tradition unhampered by progress" :)</p>

<p>and pop....lmao, that makes me giggle.</p>

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<p>LFWB choices were between USNA and USMMA. (the only two schools he applied to) </p>

<p>My son grew up living and dying the Naval Academy. He even had his birthday parties at Navy football games. He did his sophomore science fair project at Rickover Hall. There was nobody who wanted to go to the Naval Academy more than he did.</p>

<p>But his junior year in HS one of our friends who was a Company Officer at USNA suggested that he also look at Kings Point. </p>

<p>He did an overnight his junior year and then after he did NASS he did another overnight the summer before his senior year.</p>

<p>His reasons were that his main goal is to become an Officer in the US Navy which he could do from either school; He liked the idea of actually going to sea and working at sea for a year rather than just during summers; (that was very much reinforced after actually having gone to sea last year for four months and circumnavigating the earth and actually managing operations on the bridge of a 700ft ship -- he went back to sea Monday for eight months); he felt the Midshipman at KP were more down to earth than the Mids at USNA -- no "rock star" mentality; he liked having access to Manhattan; and he liked being able to compete on a varsity team -- DIII vs DI.</p>

<p>Those were his reasons for chosing USMMA over USNA before going there. They have only been reinforced.</p>

<p>Besides the fact that he tells me he's pleased with his decision everytime I ask him, the observables are that I have one happy, challenged, and very enthusiastic kid. And that's all I hoped for no matter where he went to school.</p>

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<p>BTW: They are Mids, not "middies", just like they are Cadets, not "bus drivers" :p</p>

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<p>Sorry, Air Force is better. No question. :) Navy's ok. I guess. But I should be nice since my sister is enlisted Navy. And since I applied to Annapolis myself! :)</p>

<p>I actually started laughing when I read your post, nurseypoo, because your son sounds exactly like me when I got home from USAFA summer seminar. I came away from the Academy absolutely pumped and I had to make myself shut up after a couple of hours blabbing to my sister on the phone in the airport. I first found out about the service academies my freshman year when my brother applied to the Naval Academy, and kind of had them in the back of my mind until my junior year when a cadet from my hometown came back and talked to one of my classes about the Air Force Academy. </p>

<p>I applied to USAFA, West Point, and Annapolis, in that order of preference. Looking back, I wouldn't be able to pinpoint one specific thing that made USAFA number one for me. Part of it, I'm sure, is that I've never had the opportunity to visit either West Point or Annapolis. I know more about USAFA and I know that I will be happy there. It's possible that I would like one of the other academies better, but I just had to accept that it wasn't possible to explore each one. </p>

<p>Another huge factor for me was that I just really felt like God was leading me to USAFA specifically. When I went there for summer seminar, I just really felt at peace and I somehow knew that it was where God was calling me for the next 4 years. I can't say that I wouldn't have liked to see the other academies so that I could make a more informed decision, but it just wasn't possible and I had to trust that God knew what He was doing and that I must not have needed to visit West Point or Annapolis, because the Air Force is where I belong. I have to trust that that's where He wants me.</p>

<p>I also really agree with making your decision based on the branch of the service itself and not on the Academy. One of my USAFA friends went on exchange to West Point this year, and she observed that both academies are really pretty similar. It's what comes after you graduate that's vastly different. She actally appreciated the tradition at West Point, but preferred the career opportunities in the operational Air Force better than those available in the Army. One reason that I chose not to go to West Point is because I don't really want to end up marrying a guy who goes career Army. That may sound ridiculous, but it was a factor for me. I've heard that it's easier to have a family in the Air Force and also that they treat their people better. And in all likelihood I'll probably marry someone in whatever branch of the service I enter, so... And I don't want to be out at sea, so it wouldn't make too much sense to go to Annapolis.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is that if you don't end up liking the operational Air Force, it is easier to cross-commission into another branch than if you graduate from, say, West Point. At least, that's what I've heard. Army doesn't let it's people go once it has them, because they need all of the officers that they train, whereas on the other hand the Air Force is faced with a reduction in forces.</p>

<p>And plus, I'm a West Coast girl. Can't help it. I love Colorado. And I know I will love the Air Force Academy. That's what helped me make my decision on which appointment to sign. There are many more reasons why I love the Air Force Academy, but I'll be quiet now. :)</p>

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<p>This may have been posted before, but its still a good read.</p>

<p>This was written to a young man who was selected to both the Air Force and Navy Academies and asked for advice from Bob Norris, a retired Navy pilot, about which to choose. Bob's reply: </p>

<p>Young Man,</p>

<p>Congratulations on your selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming a fighter pilot is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I'd be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself "Which one am I more likely to thrive in?"</p>

<p>USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogenous and macro. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot ... so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one.</p>

<p>Navy Snapshot: Naval Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your ass until you become a lethal force. And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. The hottest girls in the bar want to meet Naval Aviators. That bar is in Singapore.</p>

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<p>^^^^Sent to my husband at work when word leaked out that the boy was applying to the Navy, of all things! :D</p>

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<p>Just wondering: I just learned that my cousin will be getting married over a weekend in October. Would I be able to leave the academy to see her get married over that weekend?</p>

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<p>Ya same deal.</p>

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<p>it depends on the weekend. you can always send up a SSS (Staff summary sheet), but that could or could not get passed. it depends on how well you are performing, what is occuring that weekend. your chain of command (up to AOC) must approve it. if you are doing well, the biggest factor is whether that weekend is crucial training or not</p>

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<p>my son was able to leave for a family wedding right after Basic. He filed a staff summary sheet and it was approved. Weddings and funerals seem to be reasonable events for even 4-digs to get leave. We were surprised that this was doable. We made sure nobody completely counted on this because of what eagle36 said -- it depended on what was going on and performance. The latter wasn't a problem and since the scheduled "activity" was scheduled AFTER the staff summary sheet was approved, he was allowed to leave! It was great. (Don't expect to change into civies for the wedding!)</p>