So, how valuable is NHS?

Parents Corner
1

<p>Tonight my son will be inducted in NHS at his school. He's currently a sophomore and I understand he has to beat the minimum GPA and remain active with community service, etc until graduation. </p>

<p>But, other than that spiffy hood he'll get to wear at graduation, what's the big deal? I mean, for the types of colleges he'll be applying to, won't all the applicants be NHS members? And if so, it must not be much of a differentiator, right? </p>

<p>Don't misunderstand me. I'm very, very proud of him. I'm just curious as to how it can help him. </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>CC is the only place I've heard people scoff at NHS. My son is still awaiting word on whether he'll be accepted (no doubt in my mind). He seems to think it's a nice honor. Our NHS kids do some great community service!</p>

<p>But I guess it is pretty run-of-the-mill to colleges.</p>

3

<p>I think the problem with NHS is that its admission criteria differ from school to school as do its activities/services, so unless an admissions officer keeps up with what the individual NHS chapters are doing, it's hard for them to compare apples to apples. I wouldn't say it's completely meaningless, but if, for instance, there is room to list X number of memberships/honors on an application and there are X with more definitive criteria, it makes sense to leave off NHS. My daughter left it off her UC application for this reason.</p>

4

<p>I think it depends on the campus and the sponsor. We had our NHS induction last week. I think the top 25% of the class had the GPA to get in in, so it's not that it's so selective. However, the sponsor happens to be about the coolest teacher on the campus. She teaches the G/T AP World History/preAP English block that lots of them had sophomore year. She has a real heart for community service and leads them in many meaningful projects. (The cost of admission to the NHS ceremony for the kids was two jars of peanut butter for the local food bank; they lined the hundreds of jars across the front of the stage for the ceremony.) So whether or not it gives my son any advantages in the college application process, I think the sponsor and the projects will be a positive influence on his character.</p>

5

<p>I agree that among the benefits of belonging to NHS are the requirements for school and community service and leadership responsibilities. Some young people are able to experience these opportunities through scouts or church, but for many others, they never have the chance to become involved in tutoring or volunteer activities. While it is true that participating in causes such as these are good for ones college resume, I think that most people recognize the true value that these activities have in the molding of ones character.</p>

6

<p>I felt the community service element was the best thing for my son too.</p>

7

<p>It's not going to hurt you, but unless you do something worthwhile for it, it's pretty worthless. Not that there aren't plenty of people who do worthwhile things with NHS. But that was certainly not the norm at my school, and from what I've seen here, this is true of many other schools.</p>

8

<p>Here we go again. I'm so glad my S is graduating and is off the admissions treadmill. Value in college admissions isn't the only reason to do an activity or join a club. NHS happens to be a pretty good thing at our high school for some of the same reasons people have given here. Organizing your entire life around what looks good to admissions officers is pretty hypocritical. How about doing things you feel passionate about? If NHS activities don't thrill you, don't join.</p>

9

<p>NHS is viewed by many as a "resume padding", and for many many students that is all it is. Kind of unfair to those who take it seriously - but that's life...</p>

<p>For the most part, you don't need to be in NHS to do all that NHS members do - so it's not like NHS "enables" you to be involved in the community.</p>

<p>From what I've seen, community service "counts" for college admissions only when the student is very deeply and seriously involved, preferably with some results to show for that involvement. Merely listing numbers of "community service hours" does not do much, even if the numbers are high.</p>

10

<p>So maybe if it was an important/meaningful part of your ECs, would it work put on an application something like, "Coordinated NHS sponsored blood drives" rather than just noting that you were a member of the NHS?</p>

11

<p>If you are an officer in NHS, that might be somewhat noteworthy. Our HS takes NHS very seriously, but I know that is not the case at many others.</p>

12

<p>My daughter got a small (couple of thousand a year) scholarship for NHS membership. we came across a few such scholarships at non-Elite schools.</p>

13

<p>Washington College in Maryland does recognize NHS as important. One of my son's friends received a $10,000 scholarship (or $40,000 a year) because she is an NHS member. Not an officer, just a member.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, at my son's school, NHS is something to put on the resume, but the organization does very little. Most of the community service comes from our LEO Club members My son is an officer with that group.</p>

14

<p>I believe Marist college is another that recognizes NHS with scholarships-- I could be wrong about that-- but if scholarship money is important, then NH membership would be a good thing. Why do people think it's not a big deal? Who doesn't want to be recognized for keeping their grades up?</p>

15

<p>OP; you brought up a good point about all the kids applying to colleges will have NHS, and therefor it won't be much of a differentiator. You are correct. BUT, for the student that didn't belong, they are automatically at a major disadvantage.</p>

<p>Here's an analogy. What's the big deal with the SAT? For schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc... everyone is going to have a 2100 or better. That's true unless you are apply and DON'T HAVE A 2100 or better.</p>

<p>College; even State "U" is looking for diversity. They are looking for academics, athletics, clubs, volunteer work, leadership positions, different cultures, races, sex, nationalities, etc... Remember, the purpose of college/university is for a learning experience. Colleges believe that the student body is actually a large makeup of that learning experience. In High School, you had the same amount of diversity you've had your entire life. In college, they want more diversity. So, assume for a second that EVERY student met a certain level gpa, sat, act, and other academic contributors like NHS. OK; now we know this group of kids can handle our school academically. Now, lets get diverse.</p>

<p>You should have your kid; assuming they want something more than local state "U"; to aspire to be the best at whatever they want and to become diverse. IB program if available; AP classes at least. Honor's classes if the other two aren't available. Basically, take the hardest classes you can while still maintaining the high GPA. Volunteer work, extra curriculum, sports, etc... COLLEGE IS A JOB INTERVIEW. You have to sell yourself.</p>

16

<p>The majority of NHSs are filler clubs with few requirements to enter and few meaningful activities. The only person who would be at a "major disadvantage" for not having NHS would be a person who had no other ECs, really. I'd rather think that for a strong applicant, not having NHS (but obviously being of the academic and personal caliber to qualify) shows an admirable lack of resume padding. </p>

<p>And I think NHS is about a thousand times less important than the SAT. That's one reason your analogy doesn't really work, and also the SAT is a scale, not really a have-it-or-don't kind of thing, AND it's required. ^.^</p>

17

<p>Again; I consider and equate a college application to a job application and resume. You can talk about padding and such all you want, but you have to look at making yourself competitive.</p>

<p>In a perfect world, you are correct that many of the things on your application are padding. But in the real world, if your involvements and achievements are valid, then you should exploit them. You are correct that you can have many other activities and grades to offset not being in the NHS. My point is; you should try and do all the things possible that you have a passion for and/or things that will help expand your resume.</p>

<p>If you look at the Common Application which is used by approximately 150 colleges; including the ivy's, west coast ivy; top 50, etc... they have a section dedicated to "Academic Honors". They mention AP classes, IB program, NHS would obviously fall into this category, and so on. What some people fail to realize is that when the vast majority of applicants have a certain trait on their application, that trait tends to become the expected norm. I.e. If 90% have NHS, then over time it is expected that a successful candidate/applicant have NHS on their application. Same with taking AP classes, the IB program, etc... There are sections in the common app for volunteer time, work experience, etc... It is expected that the applicants have these areas.</p>

<p>Now, does that mean if you don't, then you aren't competitive? No, it just means you will have to have some other specific area in your repertoire that makes you stand out. Remember; the schools are looking for diversity. The AP, IB, NHS, Volunteer, minimum ACT/SAT, GPA, Class Rank, etc... are all designed to take the INITIAL 23,000 applicants to Harvard for example, and drop it eventually to the 2058 that they will accept. Or basically just over 9%. </p>

<p>There are basically 3 areas that you need to concern yourself with when applying to a college/university. 1) The basic minimum requirements. Most schools will post the minimum GPA, SAT, ACT, etc... that they require. 2) The socially accepted "Norms" of an applicant. That is where NHS, Class Ranking, Extra Curriculum, Volunteering, etc... all come into play. 3) What makes you different and/or stand out?</p>

<p>It's this 3rd area that actually carries a lot of weight. Your diversity can definitely compensate for some of the accepted norms in the 2nd part that you might not have; such as the NHS. I've had a lot of experience with h.s. guidance counselors as well as college/university admissions personnel. Using Harvard as the example; they had approximately 23,000 applicants. You can automatically drop that number to about 18,000 because of students who applied and didn't meet the minimum standards set by the school. You can reduce this number further to about 13,000 because these students while meeting the minimum requirements, had nothing special going for them in category 2&3 above. Now is when it gets tough. You can check out the stats, and find a lot of 4.0 gpa valedictorians who were rejected from Harvard and such. Once the total number is now down to about 10,000 they will start looking for their diversity. Not every student will have a 4.0gpa. Not all will have a 2300-2400 SAT. The average SAT score for Harvard actually is as low as 2050 and as high as 2350. That's a low of room to work with. </p>

<p>From this point on, they are going to look for the things that make you stand out. Obviously, there will be a lot of kids applying from all the high end private schools of the north-east, California, Florida, etc... If you happen to be applying and you are from Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho, then you've already gained a lot of extra points. harvard stats show Male/female ratio: 48% / 52%
International: 9% Out of state students: 86%. These are just some of the things they look at. They also look at the major you want to study; your race; economic background; etc....</p>

<p>So; you can believe that NHS and certain other things aren't that important. That's fine. For many schools, you may be correct. However, the more competitive the school you are going for, the more important your resume/application is. If you have a student who is a freshman or sophomore in high school and they are interested in going to an Ivy, WC Ivy, Service Academy, top 50, or really any school that uses the common application; then they should be looking at as many of the organizations, clubs, leadership, sports, arts, etc... that their school has to offer. This includes NHS and anything else they have to offer. If you're applying to State "U", then it probably doesn't matter.</p>

<p>BIG P.S. For What It's WORTH. The SAT/ACT is NOT always required. Even to the more prestigious schools. The reason they seem to be required, is because that is all the student has to work with. If by chance you went to a community college out of high school and only took a couple of classes, then you have a transcript. You didn't need to take the SAT/ACT to get into many community college. MANY colleges/universities require the SAT/ACT OR A COLLEGE TRANSCRIPT. So, once you've got a transcript from that community college, you can transfer later to a 4 year college or university and many times never having taken the SAT/ACT. I've got 3 degrees and have never taken the SAT/ACT. But for the high school grad going straight into a 4 year university, it is usually required.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
If you have a student who is a freshman or sophomore in high school and they are interested in going to an Ivy, WC Ivy, Service Academy, top 50, or really any school that uses the common application; then they should be looking at as many of the organizations, clubs, leadership, sports, arts, etc... that their school has to offer.

[/quote]

Are you kidding? The last thing the most selective schools are looking for is a laundry list of "as many of the organizations, clubs, leadership, sports, arts, etc"...</p>

<p>By the way, many kids get into top 10 schools without NHS on their resume. For some it is because they have more important activities to list, so NHS "falls off". For some it is because they do other things, and NHS is not on their list of priorities.</p>

19

<p>"If you have a student who is a freshman or sophomore in high school and they are interested in going to an Ivy, WC Ivy, Service Academy, top 50, or really any school that uses the common application; then they should be looking at as many of the organizations, clubs, leadership, sports, arts, etc... that their school has to offer. This includes NHS and anything else they have to offer. If you're applying to State "U", then it probably doesn't matter."</p>

<p>Not true at all. Places like Ivies look for depth in ECs, not a laundry list.</p>

<p>They get thousands of applicants who are in NHS, and probably thousands of applicants who even are school NHS presidents. Virtually all of their applicants would qualify for NHS membership if their schools had NHS and if they wanted to belong to it.</p>

<p>Now, if an applicant is an NHS national officer or has created and organized a strong NHS service project in their community, those endeavors may make the applicant stand out, but for top colleges, NHS membership or even being a school officer isn't going to be even a tip factor.</p>

20

<p>Hi. OP here. </p>

<p>Well, the ceremony last night was very nice and rather brief. And, whether or not it matters to colleges, I'm glad he did it. The group of inductees and the officers who ran the ceremony are all great kids and the peer-to-peer role model experience alone will be worth it. </p>

<p>I did hear some stats last night. 160 students (total for soph, jr, & sr.) met the GPA miniumum for consideration (W3.75). Of those, 79 got in. Of course, membership is contingent on maintaining GPA. But, it can also be revoked for non-participation in service opportunities (6 per year). </p>

<p>So, while the GPA may be a tad low, the selection isn't guaranteed, and "good standing status" isn't automatic. To me, that doesn't sound like this is a "they'll take anybody" chapter. Or am I way off base?</p>

<p>Thanks for the comments.</p>