<p>Proposal 2 would eliminate affirmative action at Michigan public universities, essentially, U of M. If it passes in November, when does it go into effect, I assume for the class of 2008, correct?</p>
<p>It would take effect immediately I think. So it would have an effect on at least part of this year's graduating class as well.</p>
<p>I believe U-M will have 10-30 days to get into compliance, so it wil effect this year's applicants.</p>
<p>What are everypme's thoughts? Do you think it will actually pass?</p>
<p>It is likely that it will pass because they have been doing some heavy advertising. Listen to AM talk radio, there is an ad specifically about UM: A dad is talking about how her daughter didn't get in and someone else who doesn't deserve her spot got in. Something along those lines.</p>
<p>Well I have news for that dad:</p>
<ol>
<li>Your daughter applied too late.</li>
<li>She is a dumbass. That is why she didn't get in, you son-of-a-*****. Don't blame minorities.</li>
</ol>
<p>I read that yes is ahead 49% to 33%, so it's probably going to pass, unless something changes the next month. </p>
<p>How will this change UM admissions? Will they eliminate the race box? Wouldn't they still find a way to figure out race (either through FAFSA taxes or just general understanding of the name)?</p>
<p>Given the legal consequences of violating the law (damages and reputational problems), and the experience of California, the passage of MCRI will likely significantly impact minority admissions at Michigan. And attempts at obsfucation will not work. Both Cal Berkeley and UCLA have been hit hard by Prop. 209 - but in the interest of balance, other instititutions in the system have benefited and overall the graduate rate is up, thus leading some to believe that people are being better matched to schools relative to their skill set and achievements.</p>
<p>What are the legal consequences for the university if they chose not to comply? The state cuts funding? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that would have too big of an impact on the university. I think michigan is doing a fine job on its own at making sure it's the kind of university it should be, and admitting the students that should be admitted. This place is going to be really dull if this bill passes, and the place fills up with even more kids from Rochester, Troy, Ann Arbor, West Bloomfield, Grosse Pointe, etc... If I wanted to attend a homogenus school, I would have made that choice. Michigan/Ann Arbor won't be the same if the awesome mix of people at this university is destroyed by bitter people who refuse to accept the idea that maybe the playing field isn't 100% level just yet.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that it will pass. The thing about polls for an issue like this is that they tend to underestimate support. There are many people who will openly support MCRI, but there are also those who won't come out and say it because they don't want to be nailed as a racist, talk about a sensitive issue, etc.</p>
<p>MCRI will fail in Wayne, maybe Oakland and Washtenaw, pass in Macomb. I think of the rest of the state as more conservative, so I'll guess that it passes almost everywhere else.</p>
<p>what is prop 2? if you say yes = no AA but if you say no = yes AA?</p>
<p>You got it.</p>
<p>thats jacked up! AA rules! if prop 2 passes, you can expect the black and latino associations calling it racist! just like they did for UCLA, who only accepted like 85 black kids out of an entering class of 5,000.</p>
<p>Hauck - although MCRI does not address a private right of action, you can bet an army of lawyers would be poised to bring such a case in the event MCRI passes and current practices or something like it are continued. Damages paid to applicants is something surely Michigan would like to avoid, and given the issues at hand, litigation will neither be cheap or of benefit to the school - at least given existing legal precedent (and this Supreme Court will only make it worse). I understand your point re diversity, but proponents of MCRI will surely point to the California experience, where URM statistics at the less prestigious Michigan schools will likely reap a benefit, along with improved graduation rates. So while perhaps a loss from the eyes of Wolverines, it is not necessarily so from a broader perspective. (Michigan's URM grad rate lags well behind, for example, Berkeley's). The real problem remains the achievement gap - which unfortunately AA has not remedied. And that is a problem that Michigan cannot address alone - a universal cultural change is needed. I would think MCRI will pass, and can only assume that the reason Michigan has not publicly related a contingency plan is that they are hoping the enforcement of the resolution can be forestalled by litigation, somehow, or some way, which with the "right" trial judge, is a possibility. Not a pretty picture for those wedded to the status quo.</p>
<p>Yeah, I say **** the affirmitave action, but the above poster is totally right; we are just going to end up with rich *******s from rochester, troy, etc.</p>
<p>I support MCRI. I'll tell what really is dicrimination. That minorities here are more likely to get RA positions. And that an RA on my floor, who is against MCRI, is not comfortable with people expressing the opposite viewpoint.</p>
<p>Me and someone else in my hall put up a thing on our doors in support of MCRI. She basically scribbles all over it, and slips a bunch of anti-MCRI flyers under our door.</p>
<p>However, she is the same person who spams the entire Couzens community against Catch an Illegal Immigrant Day, and gets away with it. She also plans to put something on her door in support of MCRI.</p>
<p>If me or the other kid scribbles over that, we are prolly in danger to having to move out. Hell, if we email the entire Couzens email distribution about our beliefs, we will have to move out because some ppl in the hall will be looking for our heads.</p>
<p>It really goes a long way to show how some rivals of MCRI are not willing to play fair. It seems like an RA can spam the entire community with a 500 word email about her beliefs (completely ignoring the fact that some ppl in the hall think otherwise, and that the mere act polarizes the dorm hall), while other ppl like me cannot even put up a simple sign that says nothing but "vote yes for No. 2", without getting it defaced.</p>
<p>She is also the same person who blames us for being "controversial"...well, at least we don't send out emails to 600 ppl in the hall for our own selfish political motives.</p>
<p>I don't care what ur beliefs are, but you gotta play fair.</p>
<p>PS. The fact that the MSU RHA officially is against MCRI is disturbing. To have an official organ of a university hold that stance really polarizes the community and segregates those who think otherwise. </p>
<p>[/threadjack]</p>
<p>I'm on the RHA here...I don't know if we have a position. But if it comes up in a meeting, I will probably move to close debate. I don't know how that will work though, because a good number of the RHA seats are dedicated to the multicultural boards for the residence halls.</p>
<p>
[quote]
we are just going to end up with rich *******s from rochester, troy, etc.
[/quote]
First, of all, Michigan can still look at income. The disadvantages you have are STILL taken into effect. Just not the ones that are as superficial as race.</p>
<p>Second, hopefully this will prompt the Michigan state government to take a closer look at its education system. The problem could be remedied a lot more effectively if they simply diverted funds from the already well-off schools to the urban "bad" schools. And if you're right that now only rich kids will get in (which you're not), then that will free up the state from paying a ****load of Financial Aid which can also be diverted to urban schools.</p>
<p>Another thing I hate about the opponents of this bill is how hypocritical they are. For instance, just about any faculty member who's expressed his/her opinion on the matter is anti-MCRI. "The goal is to get races to come together, interact, assimilate, etc." they say. But then why do we have a "Afro-American Lounge" in South Quad??? Isn't that kind of contradictory to the point? If you have all the blacks congregating together, doesn't that defeat the whole concept of diversity? Also, I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong), that minorities (blacks and latinos) are graduating at a lower rate than majorities. Aren't we setting them up to fail by giving them a leg up in the admit-process then? The bottom line is, we need to help these kids in elementary through high school. It's not too late in college, but it's much more ineffective.</p>
<p>I agree with BigE. We need to help the underpriviledged at the base of education - grade school, middle school, and high school, not college. Simply, whether one decides to choose the right path in life does not start in college, it starts when they are little kids. If they enjoy school and learning at an early age in a good academic environment, they are more likely to suceed and go onto college. We need to allocate alot of money to high schools, middle schools, elementary schools.</p>
<p>Socioeconomic status isnt really diversity; diversity is cultures and beliefs! whites dont have culture (since American culture is really based on EVERYONE ELSES) and the beliefs are mostly the same-- WASP!</p>
<p>"Diversity"? A couple minority students from my school now attend Michigan with me. Kids that wear $60 Polo shirts and $150 North Face fleeces, drive brand new SUVs, etc.</p>
<p>I did better than these kids in high school. Kids that had the exact same opportunities as me, parents had the same income level, parents went to college, etc. In fact, I'd say that the kids I'm thinking of are only what I would consider to be "average" Michigan students. And they don't have to pay tuition. These kids add nothing to the diversity of UM. Just some more rich Rochester, Troy, Bloomfield, etc. kids</p>
<p>That's my beef with AA. Kids who don't even deserve it (or need it) being pushed ahead of more deserving students because their grandmother was a minority and dad (VP of a Fortune 500 company's regional office, etc.) says to check the box on the applicaiton.</p>