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<p>Academics ARE meat and potatoes! In my opinion, “academics” include AP and remedial classes in the areas of English, History, Math and Science and SHOULD be publicly funded. Not speech, debate, basketball, etc.- those are wonderful, exciting, interesting, worthwhile activities that parents and kids should fund.</p>
<p>I understand that Germans will pay for a student to attend university because the taxes a college educated person will pay over a lifetime of work more than makes the education investment worthwhile. </p>
<p>I am disturbed by the parent who thinks that parents should be the ones who pay for offspring opportunity. Take a stroll over on the fin aid pages. There you will see high school seniors struggling to figure out the FAFSA and other application paperwork in the absence/withdrawal of their parents. All it takes to be a parent is to donate a gamete. Many, many fine people go on to become excellent employees and family members without the support of parents. Kids should be helped who do not have parents up to the job – it is in the interests of society and security to do so. </p>
<p>Instead of opportunities only for the well to do, what about a rising tide that lifts all boats?</p>
<p>^^I concur. If all activities were pay only, I wouldn’t be able to be involved in ANY activities. It seems dumb to punish a kid because of their family’s situation. It’s a PUBLIC school and activities should be offered to all or none.</p>
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<p>Again, these activities are wonderful, and I would hope that parents would take the appropriate steps to fund them for their children. I think we’re discussing differences in political and economic theories here. We’re being taxed to death for these “extras”. If property taxes (in my area, that’s what funds public education) were lowered, there would be more disposable income for parents to fund their own activities and for charity to fund activities for children whose parents couldn’t afford these activities or chose not to fund them. People should be in charge of their OWN money, not the state, not the government. I’m not a socialist, so to me the German experience is not one I want to emulate. You might not be surprised to know that I’m also in favor of vouchers. I agree to disagree!</p>
<p>It isn’t ‘dumb’ to punish a kid because their parents can’t afford piano lessons any more than it’s dumb that our family is being punished because we can’t go to Europe this summer, or have a boat, or own a ranch.</p>
<p>Even if you lowered property taxes my family(as well as a large number of families) would not be able to afford to do ECs for their kids. Furthermore, there are a number of parents who WOULDN"T pay for their kid’s ECs…the Property taxes force them, otherwise they would never write the check so Suzy can play softball. Either offer extras to everyone for free, or offer them to no one. If it is a public school all opportunities should be equal. </p>
<p>Think about it, you and your neighbor each pay different amounts of taxes, right? Let’s say the guy next door pays less than a fourth of what you do(for argument’s sake). If his house was on fire, he still deserves equal access to the fire department, no? Public services should be available equally…that’s why they are PUBLIC</p>
<p>Oh, and to add, I am a socialist…:D</p>
<p>In my state, the responsibility is to provide an adequate education. To that end, the state provides about $3,500. Most know that school expenses run about $10,000 these days so the local town has to kick in the rest.</p>
<p>There is often wide disagreement on what public schools should provide and the resulting consensus is often determined at the ballot box. On a macro level we generally see rationing by price as better districts have houses that cost more so getting into a better education system is frequently difficult for those that can choose where they want to live.</p>
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<p>Public services are often available at a fee. Our state and federal parks require fees to get in or park. Schools provide free lunches to those below a certain income level. Many districts provide free developmental services to students below K. Many school districts rent out their auditoriums for meetings. Many school districts rent out their gymnasiums for private rental. Many schools in the Boston suburbs rent out their high-schools to private chinese language schools.</p>
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<p>What’s that saying- if you aren’t a socialist when you’re young, you have no heart, if you are a socialist when you’re old, you have no brain? I think it was Winston Churchill. Well…I think we are rapidly getting to a point in our economy where there will be some difficult choices, and the near socialist system that we’ve built will simply be too expensive to maintain. We simply won’t be able to provide everything to everyone. Personally, I’m sorry that there are some kids who won’t be able to play softball or whatever- but there was a time, not too long ago, when THAT was the status quo. Think bak to the depression and past, it was the one room school house. Not only did the US survive- we THRIVED to become the economic powerhouse that we are now. We did fine without debate teams, skeet shooting, etc. in schools. Maybe it’s time to get back to basics. </p>
<p>As to the fire example, I think we can all agree that there are certain things like fire, plice and national defense that can best be handled on a larger scale by a city, state or national government. Personally, that’s about ALL I would ascribe to the ‘government’.</p>
<p>Ok, so the kids who can’t afford ECs would then be at a disadvantage to go to college. If you don’t have ECs these days, you really can’t get into top schools. So, because of their parents inability to pay, these kids would be barred from entrance to top schools(who would give them stellar aid packages to get them through undergrad)
Hmm…cuz that makes sense. The class divide is already huge, but let’s make it bigger. </p>
<p>I belive schools should be in the same category as fire and safety…it’s too big of an issue NOT to be handled on a larger scale</p>
<p>My parents are both socialists as well…so I guess they don’t have brains…</p>
<p>Colleges are certainly able to compensate for student family income.</p>
<p>^^not if the student cannot even get in</p>
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<p>Colleges make allowances for income in admissions and financial aid.</p>
<p>It would be entirely discriminatory to prohibit an entire group of tax-paying students to participate in activities. America would become more classist than it already is. America is based on freedom and that freedom involves social mobility.</p>
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<p>So should all kids get free lunches if any of them do?</p>
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<p>How many kids really use ECs for anything other than showing things like ‘leadership’…something that I’ve read many times here on CC that can be shown any number of ways and not necessarily in school. Homeschool kids have ECs that they pay for.</p>
<p>Maybe without ECs we’ll actually see a return to world leadership in math, science and writing skills? Maybe with a voucher system we’ll see good art, technical and vocational schools that actually prepare kids to make a living?</p>
<p>A truly motivated kid like yourself will be noticed and recruited by a college regardless of their parents’ ability to pay. </p>
<p>As to your parents’ economic beliefs, that’s their business. For me, socialism is nothing more than abdicating your personal responsibility and work ethic to a government nanny.</p>
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<p>If public schools offered ONE meal choice to ALL kids, rather than the myriad of choices (burgers, sandwhiches, soup, salad bars…etc…) we could certainly afford to feed every kid every day. When I was a kid, there was a fruit, a vegetable, an entree, a roll and water or milk. That was it. When did we get into the business of offering up restaurant meals in school cafeterias?? This is what’s for lunch at our local high school: [Austin</a> Independent School District : Lunch Menus](<a href=“http://www.austinisd.org/schools/menus/hs.phtml]Austin”>http://www.austinisd.org/schools/menus/hs.phtml) Amazing.</p>
<p>If I hadn’t seen this with my own eyes, I would not believe it. But:
I have seen whole cohorts of kids who have NOT gotten involved in gangs, drugs, crime, etc. because they have gotten involved in ECs (sports, mostly football and basketball).
It might be more expensive to incur the costs of crime, including imprisonment, than to pay for ECs for these kids.
Yes, I know you will say that this is individual responsibility etc. etc. but the reality is that when individual responsibility fails, and it often does, we are all affected. So we might as well try, as a society, to prevent the bad stuff.</p>
<p>I understand where you’re coming from, I really do. I just can’t help but think of all the students who would be completely thrown out of ECs if they were pay only. Think of urban districts, or really poor districts. If no one is willing to pay(unless they are forced to through taxes), then all ECs would disappear. While this could lead us back to being world leaders in math and science, I really doubt it. I play an instrument for 10 years and I truly believe it’s the reason I’m good at math now. ECs and school are connected and success in one normally drives up success in the other…</p>
<p>I understand that we can’t provide for everyone, but, for something like education(and I consider ECs a necessary part of education), I think we need to do our best to at least try</p>
<p>EDIT; cross post with levirm. I completely agree. If there are no ECs, what do you propse this kids do with themselves? There’s a reason there are boys and girl’s clubs, big brothers, etc. Keeping kids busy keeps them safe</p>
<p>^Absolutely.</p>
<p>Besides taxpayers who approve levies, the world is full of unsung heroes who coach sports, make costumes, or encourage young musicians, even though they don’t have children or theirs are grown.</p>
<p>Does anyone really believe kids whose parents can’t provide “extras” for them should just hang out on street corners? Or sit in front of the TV? Is that better for society?</p>