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<p>Not true where I grew up. I entered HS in 1970 (40 years ago!) and the HS offered a variety of clubs, sports, band,chorus, publications, etc. There were no student participation fees for any of this. In fact when my Dad attended the same HS over 60 years ago, they had many EC’s sports/arts/clubs.</p>
<p>So I do not understand your statement at all.</p>
<p>^^Did someone actually say that?^^</p>
<p>We had a full slate of extracurriculars at the high schools I attended in Maryland, New Jersey and New York in the 1960s. For that matter my grandfather had extracurriculars – no extra fee – at his public high school in Chicago. And he was born in the 19th century.</p>
<p>How many kids really use ECs for anything other than showing things like ‘leadership’…something that I’ve read many times here on CC that can be shown any number of ways and not necessarily in school. Homeschool kids have ECs that they pay for.</p>
<p>I volunteer quite a bit in the public schools, and I know a young woman who had learning challenges ( mainly processing speed), and because she was also quite bright, she perceived herself as " different", and did not seek to get the help she needed in elementary or in middle school ( this was a K-12 school), although she had an IEP which specified an hour of pull out every day.</p>
<p>Her parents had difficulty finding a way to help her understand that it was Ok to get help when needed, but as a 6th grader, being perceived as " special ed", was a bigger deal, than being able to complete the work.</p>
<p>The school she attended however had what some places would call " extra curriculars" embedded into the curriculum.</p>
<p>One of these EC’s were the seven winter sports Fridays that her school used for students to go to the slopes , for the younger kids to ski, snowboard or snowshoe and for the older students ( high school age), to teach them ( after completing a training program run by the resort).</p>
<p>( the students who remained at school had many choices of activities for those days, run by staff, parents and upper classmen)</p>
<p>Her friends had been snowboarding for several years, and she had never been, but her 6th grade teacher thought she would get something out of it and made sure she received a scholarship to go. ( the parent group gave scholarships and provided equipment and clothing for those who asked).</p>
<p>Because she was determined to keep up with her friends and because she perceived taking a physical risk on the mountain was not as intimidating as the risk of raising your hand to ask a ? when you were the only one who didn’t understand, she was riding Black Diamond runs in a few weeks and the confidence she earned from trying something difficult and succeeding & and the respect given her by her friends when they saw her determination translated into more success back in the classroom, it wasn’t as scary to take a chance at school cause she knew she would get it eventually.</p>
<p>Physical challenges, just accomplish that more clearly, than more hours spent cramming for a skill that is just out of reach,</p>
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<p>Depends on the person.</p>
<p>When I was a teenager, I used to visit the Barker Engineering Library and I ran across a paper on a programming project (DOD I think). I spent huge numbers of hours trying to program the thing myself but was unable to figure out how to do so. But there was a great deal learned in the search. I was able to understand how to do it many years later after learning the applicable theory. What was learned was how to accomplish very difficult tasks that required considerable time, effort and stamina.</p>
<p>What was learned was how to accomplish very difficult tasks that required considerable time, effort and stamina.</p>
<p>I guess I don’t understand your example.</p>
<p>I get that when you were a teen you worked on a programming project unsuccessfully ( but apparently quite happily).- so are you saying that effort changed your interest/approach while you were in high school?</p>
<p>No, it was far more useful later in life in professional work. I wasn’t particularly successful in high school or my first year in college but did quite well in the working world. Later on, college was comparatively easy. The time that I spent working on computer projects, successfully or unsuccessfully provided somewhat of an impetus to go to college but I didn’t really understand what college was all about until my kids started going to college.</p>
<p>ECs aren’t the only motivators out there.</p>
<p>Back in the 60s and 70s in Texas, there were no multimillion dollar football stadiums, etc…
but I digress from my original point. The money will run out. People will be taxed to death. Then, the ECs need to be funded by parents so that academics will be saved.</p>
<p>^</p>
<p>There are still no taxpayer funded “multimillion dollar football stadiums” in most places. Perhaps where you are (Texas)? Not here.</p>
<p>But there is a big difference in spending funds to provide students an opportunity to participate in EC’s as opposed to $tadium$.</p>
<p>I think that there was a wide variance in what schools spent for ECs 30 years ago with schools in general spending much less than they do today.</p>
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<p>Yes, there is a big difference. One of the things I’ve learned on CC is that some school districts don’t charge a pay-to-play fee. Then on the other end, at least one I’ve read about charges $150 per sport. (Our district charges $80.) Like property taxes, there really isn’t a “typical” athletics program, is there?</p>
<p>DB- I agree , there is a huge difference in school districts. Ours does not currently charge, but they are moving toward it for next year. There is a lot of outcry from parents and some of them have no concept that this is already being done in many areas.</p>
<p>I am curious as to how “parent funding” of EC’s would work. Would parents do fund raising or pay a fee for each activity? If a parent pays a participation fee or raises funds does he/she have the right to insist that their child make the team or gets a role in the play? If fund raising is consolidated, say through PTA/PTO, how is the money raised allocated? Would a wealthier parent be able to “buy” a starting position on a sports team? Just wondering.</p>
<p>Is there a consensus on the definition of EC in this discussion?</p>
<p>FallGirl, in our district a student doesn’t pay an athletic fee until/unless he makes the team. Beyond the player fee, all athletic fundraising is handled through the Boosters. In the rare occassion when an individual team has a fundraiser, I can say from personal experience that the highest earners don’t get favored-player status. (My kids “ride the bench” even tho we contribute a lot. 
And that’s perfectly fine.)</p>
<p>For the arts, all music performance is handled as a class for credit with auditions. No participation fee, but it’s up to the student’s family to purchase the $100 performance attire. There’s also a Music Boosters that raises money for travel expense, school instrument repair and purchase, etc. Our brand new harp and tympannys (sp?) are courtesy of the Boosters, not the County.</p>
<p>There is one Drama class for credit. The kids in the plays are members of the Drama Club, which has a $5 dues. There are 4 shows per year, and they all charge admission. This funds the next show. There’s also a very active Drama Booster organization. My kids aren’t active in drama, so I can’t report on any “buy your way in” controversy.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Fair question, page. I am thinking any type of “activity” which is not an actual “class”.It can get a little confusing as in our school as some activities are “co-curricular” (meaning they are part of an actual class). Some examples are: chorus (but not marching band or drama), newspaper, yearbook (but not literary magazine), DECA.</p>
<p>Just saw your post, DB. I am happy to see that you take the high road and don’t expect your kids to play just because you contribute a lot. But I can tell you, not all parents are like you. And if a team/activity is conducting tryouts and know that Johnny or Susie’s parents tend to contribute heavily, would Johnny or Susie be more likely to be chosen? They would be in the HS here.</p>
<p>Our school has a PTO and a Sports Booster group. I know that there is no small amount of friction over “who gets how much” in both. There is also a Band Parent group which already works very hard at fund raising for the band.</p>
<p>DB, timpani (that’s the plural).</p>
<p>thanks, pageturner. 
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<p>Aw, now, now…we all need to make mistakes. Otherwise, how would we learn?</p>
<p>Is “pay to play” common among NYS public schools? I know that it is not done in our area, but this region is far from typical of NYS as a whole. Not only don’t students/parents have to pay a fee for ECs, but fundraising is highly restricted and certain practices common in many schools are not permitted. A couple of examples: 1) students working on the yearbook are the ONLY ones allowed to solicit local businesses for paid ads; 2) students are not permitted to sell candy to raise funds during school hours (7:30 am to 2:30 pm).</p>
<p>BCEagle – You noted that school districts spend a lot more money on ECs than they did 30 years ago. I agree. We also spend a lot more money on teachers, teacher aides and administrators than we did 30 years ago. Expenditures in both areas have far exceeded the increases in cost-of-living in many school districts.</p>
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<p>Can’t say about sport teams, but I can definitely say this happens in both Drama and Chorus in D’s school. I refuse to play that game (OK, I can’t afford to play that game) and D has suffered somewhat.</p>
<p>That’s a shame, QM. :(</p>