So, Why Do I Hate ED?

Paying for College
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<p>For some families the process works, everyone is happy and the student goes on his/her merry way to the ED school. But I have also seen cases where students have been almost inconsolable over a wait list or denial at an ED/EA school and scrambles to reorganize their list (after having been advised to have more balanced list). Our school gives 4 financial aid workshops between September and January and every patent feels that they have it all worked out. </p>

<p>I teach junior advisory and do push in lessons to the senior class economics course. Every student says there parents are ok with the cost until the award letter comes out.</p>

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<p>^ I agree that it’s a roller coaster of decisions and emotions. We decided to do ED because we knew my son’s best chance for UPenn was ED. It worked out inn the end but we did spend 4 days in limbo discussing the fin aid pkg. I didn’t sleep at all during those 4 days.</p>

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<p>I am one of those long time posters with the 5 kiddos who applied to college for undergrad and grad school since 2000. 13 years and 5 kiddos. One child alone applied to 34 undergrads. And not one single ED choice for the reasons stated previously.</p>

<p>And Penn was one of those schools, for the Jerome Fisher program (M & T). Again no ED. And no EA single choice either. Only EA and RD. Since the FAFSA can only be filed after Jan 1, any financial aid package received with the ED acceptance can only be an ESTIMATE and not binding on the school’s end, was not good enough for my child. His decision, not mine. He knew the $$ situation going in and knew enough that he would be a captive consumer if he applied ED.</p>

<p>He was accepted to Penn’s M & T program, Swat, Amherst, princeton, Harvard, Duke, MIT EA, Cal Tech EA, Rice, Cornell…32 schools. With 32 DIFFERENT financial aid packages.</p>

<p>Same EFC at all 32 schools. High need, low income. Best packages Amherst, Colby and Penn. And by best I mean “preferential packaging”. Schools that met 100% need varied by $20,000 PER YEAR. Some with loans, some without. Some with research funds and laptops. Some with tuition for other schools and programs while attending their school. Some with workstudy some without. Some $3000 needed for summer work while others said not necessary instead we will provide additional funding for other opportunities…London School of Economics, Hungarian school of Science and Mathemetics.</p>

<p>$20,000 per year differential, same EFC, same kid 32 different schools.</p>

<p>Different packages made for easy comparison and some room for “reconsideration” at HIS top choices, not theirs. We would never have known as a family that there was so much room for “negotiation” and it would never have been to our advantage to apply ED. Son is of the opinion ED advantage ONLY advantages THE ADVANTAGED. Period.</p>

<p>Speaks to son’s decision to major in calculus-based economics at p’ton and have his research be overseen by the recent winner of the nobel prize in econ. </p>

<p>Same process just occured in son’s applications to medical school and the ensuing financial aid process as there is ED options there as well. Again he did not use ED rather cast a large net with the same EFC and had eye opening results, not usually seen in the med school admission process.</p>

<p>My words of caution are as they always are, if you need ANY and I mean ANY (by your definition not the schools) do not apply ED. EVER.</p>

<p>Again, 5 kiddos, 13 years of applying undergrad and grad and 100s of applications and no advantage ED.</p>

<p>Kids have made our info available to the local high school families and their GCs so it has been beneficial to many others in the past 13 years and has helped many who did not know.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>For those families who have need, the differences in aid packages and the negotiating room when you have these different results from like schools can make a lot of difference in the family quality of life for a long time forward. The impetus is to accept the ED offer, the momentum, the desire, those puppy dog eyes,first choice, can you do? , what if this is the best you are going to get, etc, etc. Most people cannot commit to a hard dollar figure. Particularly not in a vacuum, and not over time. With RD, maybe you will find out that Swarthmore will give you $10K more than Penn and you can use your whole Unsub Stafford towards EFC instead of most of it being part of your package. If you are on a strict budget and this is a tough go for you, that little piece of info can make a big difference. You are paying this at least 4 times over in most cases, not just that one time, bear in mind. </p>

<p>If money is not the issue, or all are in agreement that the ED school choice is truly second to none and worth a lot of sacrifice, fine. Go ED, take your chances. </p>

<p>With a lot of young adult kids who all have and had college bound friends and classmates. I’m also going to tell you, that for many who did go ED and were thrilled that senior year as one of the annointed with the college process done by the holidays and first choice school in the bag, did not stay with that school, many because the finances were undoable. On paper, and in theory, the ED aid offers were doable especially since all family attention was put on justifying and figuring out how to do this. In reallity, the roof gets a leak, the car needs to be replaced, you need three root canals, and grandma is crying cuz her dentures hurt, and you want your mama to have teeth that work. Second sibling has a hearing issue, and needs some outside help, and you lose some hours at work. Your health insurance goes up along with your social security contribution. You are offered an incentive that is foolish to turn down to put money in your 401K plan. Your college kid wants to switch majors to something that makes good sense, but has to take a course in the summer, and the only local school that offers it is a private one. You get a chance to go to Europe with a friend on a super luxury tour at a bargain basement price that you know you’ll never see again due to friend subsidizing most of it --oh, and she asked you because her breast cancer recurred and it is stage 4. I am talking real life here. All of a sudden State U prices look mighty good, and I know a dozen kids off the bat who ended up at Binghamton after ED at Holy Cross, Lehigh, Swarthmore, Haverford, just to name a few off the top of my head. For all of the above reasons. Every single parent said that ED was what “forced” a decision that was more than they really could afford at the time, and they were all jubilant and all systems go when it happened.</p>

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<p>What this discussion shows me is how complex it all is. I already feel most families don’t sufficiently educate themselves about all the college topics, potential issues, and the full-on processes. </p>

<p>Any decision, including what is the “best” offer in the spring of hs senior year-- can still pose problems later on. You could take that most-generous RD offer and still run into health/well-being issues and life opportunities that conflict. Anything short of a full ride could lead to later challenges. (Hey, even going far from home can cause inconveniences, if you take the contingency planning that far.)</p>

<p>I think OP’s point may be: don’t assume. On that, we agree.</p>

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<p>And the first offer you got may have been your best!!. As for Ed @ Penn, anyone who doesnt know your chances are much greater Ed isn’t paying attention to the facts .Most of you are claiming the benefits of Rd over Ed without acknowledging the real benefits of ED. And they are very real at many schools.Penn being a HUGE one.24% ED acceptance.</p>

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<p>You absolutely can ALWAYS make the wrong or right decision. But you don’t have any basis for comparison when the choices are take it or leave it. With RD you can have that array of choices and know if your first choice school is giving you the best offer, or not. You don’t know. Yes, ED offers most students a better chance of acceptance. You pay for that by losing your choices. Not a big deal when you know you are going to paying full freight and don’t care. But if you have monetary issues, it could mean a big deal on your financial picture and opportunities for a long time hence, if loans are involved. </p>

<p>College decisons are often made with the spotlight on them without taking into account that the rest of life goes on, and that the decision has to be integrated in with one’s life. When financials are an issue, it can particularly affect the whole family’s quality of life.</p>

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<p>As a poster noted above, ED usually includes a chunk of athletes, maybe faculty kids, legacies, etc, and other super kids who happen to be hooked. Our unhooked kids do not automatically get the exact bennie of the apparent admit %. You don’t just look at this as “your chances are much greater.” Also, I am extremely hesitant about using ED for the bump, unless the kid truly is qualified for that school. The admit is where the door opens, that’s all. </p>

<p>Btw, D1’s RD offers were all virtually the same. Bottom line in expectations from her and from us. I am not pretending this is simple. It can work, it can fail. Families have to really know what they are doing.</p>

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<p>Even with all of the “specialties”, ED usually gives a nice bump up for applicants. I admit that fully. And some schools will out and out say that the financial aid packages are the best for the ED applicants. CMU does not guarantee to meet full ned for all of its students, but it does for those who are accepted ED. So, yes, there are benefits to applying ED, and yes, for some kids it might be the best way to go. But, if money is a pressing concern, it is not.</p>

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<p>Of that 24% acceptance what percentages are D1 athlete recruits, legacies and developmental admits? What is the real percentage of the unhooked, “regular” students?</p>

<p>Daughter was strongly advised to apply ED to Penn by her rep and respective coach as a D1 athlete. She did not knowing the ED decision would trap her from examining any and all choices she might have.</p>

<p>Son’s initial packages had Penn’s as one of the top 5. However, after seeking 'reconsideration" from his other top choices Penn’s package fell quite short.</p>

<p>If you apply ED you have no way of knowing what your student’s FINAL revised package would be. There would be no way to know. Unless of course someone else went through a similar process and ended up with a far different package.</p>

<p>Yes there might be a slight advantage to unhooked, no need required (FULL PAY) students applying ED. But the disadvantages to those with ANY need far outweigh any perceived benefits.</p>

<p>When the discussion is involving tens of thousands of dollars per year for 4 years I can find no advantage.</p>

<p>As for son or daughter thinking they needed or wanted the possible boost from ED it wasn’t something they considered. If the school wouldn’t accept them for who they were without the games of ED it wasn’t a school they wanted to attend.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>Son’s initial packages in no way resembled his final offers. And after matriculation his packages were revised again. Sophomore year he had 12 revisions. This was due to additional awards both institutional and outside scholies.</p>

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<p>If you can it, and you know that a similar school might well cost alot less, in some cases $10-20K less per year, as others who have gone through the process many times and have seen the offers can attest, go right on ahead. The problem is that school’s aid package might have been negotiable for a lot more if a like school comes up with more money. [ My son got a merit award DOUBLED in a five minute conversation from his first choice LAC when he said he really wanted to go there but he was accepted to in state Cornelll and the cost differential was causing family issues. From a school that is not particularly generous, and does not “negotiate” as a rule. They did want to see the acceptance letter, but they also anteed up] You don’t know. But if you really decide it’s still worth it, and you understand what you are possibly losing for those extra percentage points in being accepted and can afford it, that is a decision that is your own business. Most people don’t get this and it is not spelled out like many of us who have experienced it are doing here. </p>

<p>By the way, Sybbie is spot on. So many parents are willing to pay anything for their kid to get into that first choice school, until it comes time to show the money. The Pied Piper tale lives on in many forms.</p>

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<p>I just want to say thanks to kat, cpt, sybbie and others for their posts on this thread - I have learned a great deal from it. Very glad that my D13 elected not to apply ED.</p>

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<p>Ed worked great for us. My son is now a Penn Quaker 2017 and we couldn’t be any happier with the way Penn treated us. Good luck to all and beware of the false notion that ED is bad for those who need fin. aid.</p>

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<p>@rebel you are the only one who likes it</p>

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<p>No. A lot of people love it. And when it works, it’s wonderful. It’s when it tanks, that it’s the problem. The reason I hate ED is that those who can least afford the downsides are the ones who end up suffering them. I have seen many a financial aid student pounding salt, barely making it financially at college with his parents in financial trouble, the accounts on hold, and he has no leeway since his Stafford loans are al used towards his aid award and he’s on workstudy with that time alloteed all towards his aid too, so none of that goes towards his EFC. When ED doesn’t work for someone who can afford the school, the kid can transfer. Money isn’t the problem. For those on financial aid, transferring is a problem because the aid is even worse, far worse for transfer students, and hardly any merit aid there. </p>

<p>How wonderful things are when all works out well, has to be weighed against the consequences when it doesn’t. Let those who fall in the latter category attest to how wonderful ED works.</p>

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<p>Au contraire. ED worked out great for us, too. Financial aid actually came in higher than the online calculator estimate. With no-loan, it was a no-brainer, and win-win. Of course, only W2 income here, so the Income calc was simple, and not subject to add-backs of non-cash items such as depreciation.</p>

<p>Also note that the financial aid award was provided at the exact same time as the acceptance in mid-Dec. Thus, if the $$ was not good enough, there was still time to submit other apps by the Jan 1 deadline.</p>

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<p>The question I have (for the ‘haters’) is how many of such kids/families are actually affected in a similar way? A handful? Hundreds? Thousands? If the latter, I could understand the disdain, but if only the former (however defined), why eliminate something that benefits thousands (big time), because it disadvantages a xx?</p>

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<p>Yes, you run the risk of not knowing about that great Swat package if you apply and are accepted ED at Penn. But OTOH, maybe Penn would have given the student $10K more than anywhere else, but they never find out if they go RD because they only could have gotten in ED. I think if the potential ED school is known for outstanding aid, and offers a substantial admissions bump for applying ED, you may risk as much by risking never getting that “outstanding” offer as you do by risking not seeing and being able to negotiate from multiple offers. It seems to me that there certainly are circumstances where ED can make sense, even if money is a major issue for the family.</p>

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<p>No doubt I’m biased. The the way ED worked for us was great. If you don’t fully understand the process and have the ability or desire to complete the CSS profile fully and accurately,You might not want to do ED. I had a detailed talk with my accountant before I decided to do it.</p>

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<p>I fall into the hater category, I guess, as blue bayou describes it. As I read through this thread, I think it is partially because of our family situation and partially because I hear more horror stories than successes.</p>

<p>For those who are successful and happy with ED, I do not have any problem at all. Go for it. I wish you the best.</p>

<p>However, for us it was not a good path. For our almost exclusively upper middle class friends, it is not a good path. For both of our kids, we did not apply for financial aid. However, we did not want to have to pay full price. Additionally, neither of my kids fell in love with that perfect school. We wanted to wait to compare all of the offers. ED was not a good choice for our kids.</p>

<p>I would not take it away from anyone else. I just want people to go in eyes wide open so they are not on here disappointed when mom and dad cannot pay the bill.</p>

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<p>We live in a primarily working class suburb. The upper income folks in our town like us are teachers, sales people, IT people, nurses, etc. Our son considered ED but it is almost unheard of at our public high school. I don’t think it’s b/c we don’t understand the process. I think it’s a different way of thinking. First of all, most of the kids we know, including my own, don’t get caught up in the “dream school” idea. They might have a favorite school, but money is such a factor, that few make a decision before they see the FA packages. Good or bad, it’s a working class/middle class way of thinking. That’s the way we buy most things. When we bought our last car, we had a few favorites and then we bought the car we felt was the best deal. I have wealthier friends who just recently bought a Lexus. They love Lexus. It’s a good car. They felt they bought it for a fair price. Why look at anything else? They can afford to think that way. For my family, we are not going to make our son opt for the least expensive school (he’s been offered full tuition at several state schools and I know most of our friends think he would be crazy to turn that down) but we all know even a $5000 savings is a big deal to us. Our son decided to go RD to see what is the best deal. Because that’s the way we do things.</p>