<p>ED to a meets-full-need, no-loans college worked great for us. We’re not “very low income” but are middle class by normal standards (not by CC standards). Kid was an “on the bubble” applicant stats-wise with a quirky transcript, so glad we went with an ED application. Gotta do your homework, though, and not close any doors until all the FA details are known.</p>
<p>^ In a nutshell the best case for Ed is the fact that your best chance to get into a top school or your Reach school is ED. If you don’t believe that, it’s because your not paying attention.Many schools explicity tell you it’s your best chance.I’ll say again that you may get your best aid pkg ED. For those who claim they need to compare all pkgs. at end of RD to know they are getting the best deal, they give up the ED bump and still will never know if they got the best aid pkg.They think they’re guaranteeing the most informed decision. I think they’re kidding themselves.</p>
<p>I agree with captofthahouse and report a similar experience than the one katwkittens had.</p>
<p>I already posted on CC that I was accepted by some top National Unis and some top LACs. Financial packages differed to the tune of $10K per year by the meet full need schools. These were all need-based packages (I got some merit aid packages by smaller schools, but I am excluding them from the $10K difference comparison). I also pasted quotes of one of my award letters when someone said that schools follow a common methodology. The letters from some schools specifically state that they do not follow the federal methodology so that they can award more money. </p>
<p>My family is stright salary income. No business income or other strange things such as mariage or military that could rationally justify these huge differences.</p>
<p>What I posted before is something like this: If you do not care about $10K per year, apply ED. If you want to compare packages and potentially (likelly?) save $10K per year ($20K in the case of katwkittens), apply RD to multiple schools. It is your choice.</p>
<p>^ How is it that you “know” you wouldn’t have gotten a better deal ED?? What about missing out on getting into a better school with the ED bump?? If missing out on that doesn’t bother you or your child that’s your choice. Ignoring it’s value is also your choice.</p>
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<p>Again, as others have noted, the “ED bump” may be illusory. Yes, there’s a correlation between early application and higher acceptance rate. But correlation is not the same as “cause and effect”! There’s also a correlation between demonstrated interest and higher acceptance rate (at some schools), and between more qualified candidates and higher acceptance rate. Either of these (or any of the other factors cited above) could explain the higher acceptance rate for ED candidates. You cannot be certain that the successful ED candidate would not have been equally successful applying RD!</p>
<p>As for Inpersonal, since he or she was only recently admitted to college, I think it’s a bit early to worry about his or her child’s college prospects . . . :rolleyes:</p>
<p>^ If you want to believe the ED bump “maybe illusory” thats your perogative. I think the data proves you’re mistaken. I keep seeing a few posters telling horror stories. I’d like to see someone quantify how many people have been “harmed” by ED . I know many people swear by ED. I’m one of them.</p>
<p>Why would you get a better deal with ED? That is not in the basis of yield management, nor at all what any logic would assume.</p>
<p>ED states you will attend if accepted, it is binding. And the first package sent to a student is an estimate ONLY. Not binding. You the student are a captive consumer, trapped. Yes, if it is not at all possible you can withdraw all the while missing deadlines and other opportunities for merit scholarships and non-binding EA opportunities.</p>
<p>All falls under risk analysis, missed opportunities and lack of any choices come April.</p>
<p>We have only addressed the financial implications versus the illusion of a bump in chances for acceptances. And that is all it is, a chance. What truly increases that chance is the admission committee depositing your application into the full pay pile.</p>
<p>If you are a low income high need applicant your application included a brightly neon colored fee waiver, not to be missed. They know exactly what pile your application will be in. Then sorted into hooked and unhooked…recruited athlete, legacy, double legacy, developmental admit, celebrity, URM or a combination of all of the above.</p>
<p>And then after all that there will be some slots left…why would a school practicing heavy yield management/cost effectiveness give the same applicant a better financial application package for ED than if they applied RD?? They don’t have to, the student has already agreed to attend.</p>
<p>If applying RD they know you will have other options and they need to be MORE competitive. And you will have other options not only for information purposes but in order to better ANY initial offer.</p>
<p>Aside from the financials aspects of ED, some students come April are not of the same mindset as the previous October. 17 and 18 years olds might be hard pressed to truly know all the financial and educational ramifications of an ED decision.</p>
<p>I am glad it works out for those who have successfully used the ED pathway. But I will again state if you have any financial need this is not an admissions pathway I would recommend. It advantages the ADVANTAGED (and that includes the school itself).</p>
<p>As far as son’s lost opportunity for gaining admittance to a “better school” with ED, there were no better schools. He was accepted to them RD and EA. The idea of a “better school” or a “dream school” was lost on him. He applied to enough schools where he would find a “better fit” and do well at any of them.</p>
<p>There are no “dream schools”. Just dreams with many different paths and schools to realizing their goal. So for him and my 4 other children the option of ED was useless.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>^ How many times are people going to misrepresent the Ed process?It is NOT BINDING for fin. aid applicants. You WILL NOT miss any deadlines. ALL your other applications remain active until you determine if fin. aid pkg works for you.The problem is that the points I’m making aren’t about your son. I also strenously disagree with your conclusions. You have a right to your opinion, but many including myself don’t agree with you.</p>
<p>Agree completely with you Kawkittens. My D applied in the dark ages without the net price calculator and our FA awards differed by $10,000. </p>
<p>I did a few different net price calculators for a few schools and they differed by $8000, this would be a huge difference to me. </p>
<p>My D and H wanted to apply to her favorite school ED but I held firm. At the school presentations they make it sound so easy and you will have a great advantage applying ED. It’s easy to drink the kool aid. But I held firm, and she applied RD and was accepted. She was a good candidate and in the end it didn’t make any difference, but she got to compare FA packages and was able to have a choice.</p>
<p>Rebel11 you have been on this site for less than a month. Your son applied ED to Penn and to Rutgers. He is interested in becoming a physician. We have a pre-med forum here on CC which you might find informative. Your daughter is interested in applying to Penn and P’ton.</p>
<p>My son a recent alumni of Princeton might be able to provide some valuable insight to you. He is also a recently admitted medical school student having completed 27 applications and was successfully admitted to many of his schools with “interesting” financial aid packages. Hopefully this site and the parental/student info provided here will help your kiddos with successful endeavors.</p>
<p>When I refer to our families’ financial aid packages it is for all the children for their undergrad and grad school applications. Not a data point of 1 but rather hundreds of applications and packages with the same EFC year after year. With a multitude of results.</p>
<p>It can be overwhelming to new posters the vast amount of knowledge on CC and in my ensuing years here I have come to appreciate the wisdom of so many and their various perspectives. It is wealth of info.</p>
<p>So welcome to CC and eventually you might want to wander over to the pre-med forum and tap all the long-time posters there who might provide valuable insight for your son as he pursues his pre-med studies at Penn.</p>
<p>One of my son’s top choices was at penn’s Jerome Fisher program which seemed to be a great combo of what he was looking for, a BS in biomedical engineering and a BA in econ from Wharton. The admitted students day was impressive but p’ton offer was better in the end.</p>
<p>Again welcome to CC!!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Thanks Kat, I’m going to take you up on that. We’ve got along road ahead of us. My Daughter wants to get a PHD.My son’s friend is a Frosh @ Princeton now. She loves it. Whats not to love?PS: My son had a Priority review appl. in @ U. Rochester and 10 other completed applications ready to submit in case Penn didn’t make it affordable for us.</p>
<p>Rebel, you said yourself that it took you 4 sleepless nights to decide to bite on that Penn package. And you are one of the lucky ones, because you were able to come up with a way to deal with the final numbers. Many families really are not sure what they can afford and fool themselve when something their child really wants is just within reach. A few thousand dollar gap is not a big deal for those making a lot of money and whose finances are in good shape even if they do not make a lot of money, but it can mean the beginning of disaster for a family that is not in such position. </p>
<p>If the dollar amount in the aid packages meet or exceed expection, all is well. If it is waaay out of line and a call to fin aid does not come to a resolution, the decision is cut and dry and easy too. It’s when it’s more than you expected and calculated it to be and you are having to finnagle and pinch and maybe even cheat a little on the budget to make it work with a lot of hopes and ifs in there, it can be a problem. As you know, it’s not easy to give up that ED accept, and for many fin aid folks, those packages are more along the line of gulp, think, sleepless nights before taking it with a lot of families taking it that should not have. So to cavalierly say, one can just say no, is really not giving a clear and complete picture of what usually transpires. And people rarely know this, because even those who say “yes” only after sleepless nights and some creative air financing usually put their best face on things in public. It’s a few years down the line that the cracks in the case develop.</p>
<p>An acquaintance of ours was happy as can be when his talented, beloved , wonderful daughter got accepted ED at her first choice school Oh , the joy and the smiles and life was wonderful. When he went to his accountant in March for taxes, his accountant said he was crazy, mad, and fiscally irresponsible to even consider taking on that financial load and specifically showed him why. This is a guy who is pretty danged responsible and level headed about these thing, by the way. He was thoroughly shaken, because he also had recently experienced some disasters at home, you know, the tooth breaking increase in health premiums, the car dying, a car accident, the basement flooding and expensive home repair immediately needed, other kid has some needs and things he should be getting, wife says no bonuses this year at her company and business is slow there, big tree in yard is dead and in dangerous position–needs to be cut down, and the list goes on. Oh, and the PROFILE estimate is off enough so that the final aid package is probalby going to be a few thousand less. DD has senior expenses and is offered the deal of a lifetime to go with friend to Europe mostly on friend’s family dime, but some money is needed and it cuts into expected summer job income, and Grandmom has take a turn for the worse and family feels everyone should come for a visit and also expect some future visits to the west coast as a result. All of a suddent that financial aid package that was going to make it just doable is really not adequate. </p>
<p>In this case, though the girl had sent out notices to all her other schools that she was accepted ED and was withdrawing her other apps, our state school ignored the notice, which it tends to do. Has happened before. She was accepted there to the Honors College with a merit award, not much, but bringing the price down to under $20K plus with our state program there was a couple grand more she could get staying in state. At least a dozen of her friends were going there and when the daughter got wind that the $40k tab to FIrst Choice U was a thorn in the famlly’s financial hide, she said she would just as soon go to State U with absolutely no regrets. This was the girl who was on her knees praying to get into FIrst CHoice U, who had tears in her eyes with fear and joy. Who wanted this more than anything in the world, now saying, “gee, it’s no big deal”. What a difference a few months made. </p>
<p>And this scene would play itself out even more if those choices were out there. </p>
<p>I dislike ED because this sort of stomache churning stress does not happen with those who can pay full freight and for whom all of this drama is not in the picture. It’s bad enough that there is anxiety and stress waiting for the admissions decison, but those who are have need have this as well. I have seen otherwise responsible people break from the expectations, momentums, emotions, child’s fervent desire, the desire to give this to child, and go with a package that they should not had taken. WIth no other sure thing on the table, it’s so much easier and likely to do this.</p>
<p>Hi CPT, You have some solid points that people need to consider. We had a few days in flux because they had some questions re: CSS profile. After a few clarifying answers from us they gave us a solid pkg. You’re right we’ll never know what we would have gotten elsewhere,but I believed the only way we might have gotten more money is via merit to a lower rated school. It is as you say very difficult to give up an Ed admit(especially to an Ivy).We believe the extra money we might pay is worth it for UPenn. We didn’t believe any top school that was on our list would exceed Penn’s offer in any meaningful amount.We took the bird in hand.</p>
<p>And, Rebel, it is affordable without a big stretch. That is important. The problem with ED is that a lot of kids are doing this now as it has become the thing to do in many schools and communities. The push and pressure to do this becomes enormous, and I don’t know how many times I’ve heard exactly what you said, that there is no down side financaillay, just say no if your don’t get enough money". Need and affordablity are rarely thick black lines on one side of a figure, and when you want something badly, especially for your child, you are going to waver alot on one side of that line, sometimes to extreme financial and future detriment.</p>
<p>There was a dad who posted earlier here who has done his homework, and his son clearly wanted to go to CMU as his first choice. They asked for an early read from the school, and got it on estimated numbers and were told that CMU guarantees full need for ED kids accepted but not for RD kids. The number was doable, and for them, it was worth it. Even if they could get into school choice #2 for free, CMU was preferred for a number of reasons. In a case like that, I was on board totally with ED. However, when I brought up a few little tidbits, it did take the dad aback a bit since he had not thought about them. I still think in that case, even with need, ED is the way to go, but few people are as prepared as this applicant and his parent are. </p>
<p>Most every single person I know personally who went ED had no good understanding of how financial aid works. Neither do most people who apply to colleges, anyways, but with ED that loss of comparisons is a real problem when you don’t know the process well because you have NO idea what the ramification of that package. You think your kid will take out loans to help pay for what your family contribution is supposed to be and you find out that the only loan he can get is the Staffords already tucked into the package. SOme of the packages are not so spelled out either when the estimated awards come out. Until the real awards are given, those are just estimates and could change so the detalils are often ommitted. You think your kid will work a few hours during the school year for living expenses, only to find out tha some of that aid includes work study, so he HAS to work all right, but not for those living expenses, but to get to that full fin aid number. Yeah, not so good. Some of those schools assume you get some PELL money, but you know, if that actual FAFSA EFC doesn’t come out the estimate you may get a big fat zero in that area, and don’t think the school is going to necessarily make that up. You provided the estimate back in Ocober or NOvember so it’s on you how correct that was and if you lose eligibiilty for some low income money because your estimate was a bit low, well…too bad. </p>
<p>For some schools like Penn, Williams Amherst, Swarthmore, to name a few, the packages tend to be very good, and I do believe that it’s going to be tough to beat an ED fin aid package from them. But as Katwkittens and Sybbie will tell you, it does happen. Their kids did apply to such schoool and when they saw the array of offers, the differences were staggering. A family that will be suffering financially and barely can afford, really can’t afford that aid package but talked themselves into saying they could might well have gotten a better deal that would have made life a lot easier from a like school RD. Not a problem if one can truly afford that ED school and that was truly the first choice and all are on board that it’s worth every cent, but that is not always the case. Also, what’ is very important that is present in your situation and not with some other families is that, you the parent are very much involved and informed. Too many parents’ have that “we’ll work it” or “it’ll all work out” as their mantra until it doesn’t work out.</p>
<p>ED1 worked very well for us, but you have to do your research, student has to go in with eyes wide open that the financial aid package may not work, and you have to have all your other applications ready to go. We don’t have any surprises on our tax forms, and the aid given was almost exactly the same as the net price calculator. I never called his ED school his dream school, as he had others lined up, but it was the one that suited him best, it was on the same coast, and he wanted a relaxed senior year.</p>
<p>Cpt, you paint a tough picture of a guy with all those disasters, who still went ahead with the ED app. Did they all occur after turning down the other schools? </p>
<p>If their tab was 40k at the ED school, something sounds amiss. Did he originally think he could pay that? Was the NPC off? It sounds like maybe it wasn’t a meet full need school or his income was that high- or she didn’t qualify for merit. And, despite the tab-- they went ahead and accepted???</p>
<p>I can only say that if D1 had done ED and the offer, despite my research, left me with 40k, we would have said, “no way.”</p>
<p>Like cptofthehouse I don’t worry about the families who truly can’t afford the ED FA offer. If you really can’t pay you can’t pay and all you’ve lost is some time and energy. The cases I worry about are in the grey area- kid can attend the dream school, but it means dad will have to put off retirement by an extra 2 years, or kid #3 won’t get braces, or kid #2 will have much more limited choices when it comes time for her college search. I can just imagine the stress and buyer’s remorse when the applicant sees that his acceptance of the ED offer will create a financial strain on the family.</p>
<p>A friend’s child has applied RD to a bunch of Ivies, for which he is qualified, and ED to a school a notch below in the ratings. He truly is in love with his ED school, so we’re praying he gets a good FA offer, but I don’t know what they’ll do if the FA isn’t what they hope.</p>
<p>Cost was $60K. Fin aid was in the low 20s. Left close to $40K to be taken care of. Figured could borrow $10k including some Stafford on part of the kid, had $10 earmarked from savings and kid’s summer work and she could work during the school year as well to cover that… And they could come up with $20. SUNY is $20K and change. Easy to convince oneself it’s doable when you want it that badly.</p>
<p>As for all of those disaster, those and some is the story of my life last year. We didn’t do ED and we left a buffer, but I’m struggling making my kids’ school payments. And we don’t qualify for financial aid. My older son would go without health insurance rather than pay it himself and he goes off our plan in a month, and I am nervous of what the COBRA payment is going to be for that. My youngest needs braces, and my mother needed extensive dental work, my MIL hearing aids, and both needed new glasses. They get lowly pensions and I just can’t kick the grannies down the stairs, though they don’t count as core family when it comes to expenses for college. My one son is a cancer survivor and is adult follow up clinic at Memorial Sloan Kettering is not covered by our insurance and he was treated there, and I feel it’s important follow up be done there. And so we pay. My college son wants to switch to another major, means transfering to another school within his college and catch up summer courses if he is to graduate in time. Which mean more college cost–School of Business costs more. I need a new garage door, and my side walk is cracked and needs work —if someone falls walking on it, I am liable. The list goes on. </p>
<p>My bottom line cost for my kids was $35K. If they had been accepted to a college they so really wanted and it was $40K, the truth of the matter is that I would have capitulated. Yes, I am weak. I’m not sitting here from a throne up there dictating wisdom. I’m a danged fool too when it comes to my kids. </p>
<p>Oh, and yes, the parent I knew had all of those Disasters between beginning of Dec and end of March. He probably ahd other issues too during the year, but he didn’t have that $40K annual nut when he had them. I notice his DD wore braces, and his son is going to need them. I think his wife’s job has been cut to part time since then, and they have a different car than they had. His mother did pass away. His DD did go on that trip. I don’t think she found employment over the summer from what DS told me, a lot of his classmates and friends had trouble finding jobs this summer. His township is one where taxes were raised, and they have no school buses so you have to drive your kid to school, find a car pool or he walks on a dangerous path for up to 2 miles.</p>
<p>The other thing that has come up, is that the particular ED school does not take credits from other schools so you cannot accelerate or take a semester off and graduate doing that. I think they were planning that for the sophomore year. They would have two in college senior year which would help, maybe next year? , not sure. Am rambling now.</p>
<p>Rebel,</p>
<p>The problem I see is what if your son was deferred/rejected then he could have missed many of the deadlines for scholarships at many of his backups.</p>
<p>This happened to a friend’s son. He applied ED to his dream school. Everyone felt it was a sure thing. He did not research his backups or prepare any application. He was deferred in mid December. He had to scrambled to research his options and to get the applications in by Jan 1 deadlines. I am sure that some of the applications were not as polished as they would have been. This was a bright, high stats kid who just got bad advice. He missed most of the scholarship deadlines that he would of had a good chance at and needs.</p>
<p>This is not really a downside of the ED process but a problem of how people approach it. </p>
<p>I have seen several posts about people applying ED with their backup applications completed but not submitted. Why wait? Why not submit them for full merit consideration at schools that have merit/scholarship deadlines? Yes it can be expensive but cost of not doing it is high.</p>
<p>Hey noname & CPT, The only 2 schools that had deadlines for merit prior to Jan 1 we already applied to.So we didn’t miss any deadlines. I guess I could probably amend my philosophy to ED is a no brainer for those totally prepared with their eyes wide open.</p>