<p>Fermat, I’m glad you’re sick of this thread you started and won’t be arguing anymore. Seeing as how you are from Texas like I am, you know good and well most Texas businesses don’t value a degree from Princeton anymore than they value one from UT Austin, A&M, or SMU. If you want to work on Wall Street, fine, I’ll give you that. A degree from PHY is what a lot of investment banking firms are looking for. Anywhere else in the nation, and the ivy league does not matter nearly as much as you claim it does. If I thought you actually went to Princeton, I would agree with the poster who said she’s ashamed of you. The viewpoint you have spouted in this thread is ridiculous. Good riddance to you.</p>
<p>Funny how you guys spend all your time trying to refute my argument, yet you doubt that I even attended Princeton.</p>
<p>That just shows you value Princeton so highly such that you fail to believe I actually attend, and yet at the same time you try to argue how Princeton “doesn’t matter.”</p>
<p>If it really didn’t, you wouldn’t be spending all your time in this forum, high school students wouldn’t be working their asses off to attend a top college, and people wouldn’t be complaining about US News rankings.</p>
<p>We all know deep inside, those who complain only do so because it’s something others have and they don’t - and thus feel the inferiority complex and need to play down its importance.</p>
<p>Similar to all those haters on Occupy Wall Street - whining and complaining about others making more money than they are when they could spend that time getting a job for themselves.</p>
<p>The reason to attend Princeton is to obtain a great education. Success as measured by income depends on education, intelligence, hard work, making the most of opportunities, ability to network, etc. </p>
<p>Princeton economist Alan Krueger has found that students who are similar to Princeton students but attend state U achieve an income similar to Princeton graduates. </p>
<p>In 1999, economists from Princeton and the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation looked at some of the same data Professor Eide and his colleagues had used, but crunched them in a different way: they compared students at more selective colleges to others of seemingly comparable ability, based on their SAT scores and class rank, who had attended less selective schools, either by choice or because a top college rejected them. The earnings of graduates in the two groups were about the same perhaps shifting the ledger in favor of the less expensive, less prestigious route. (The one exception was that children from disadvantaged family backgrounds appeared to earn more over time if they attended more selective colleges. The authors, Stacy Berg Dale and Alan B. Krueger, do not speculate why, but conclude, These students appear to benefit most from attending a more elite college.) See: <a href=“http://www.nber.org/papers/w7322.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nber.org/papers/w7322.pdf</a> </p>
<p>Attendance at HYP increases a student’s chances of being admitted to a top grad school. I also believe that Princeton students upon graduation may be able to receive job offers that are more difficult for state U grads to obtain. See: <a href=“http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~lombardi/edudocs/eide.pdf[/url]”>http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~lombardi/edudocs/eide.pdf</a> </p>
<p>The universities with the highest starting salaries are MIT, Cal Tech, and Harvey Mudd. If you want a high starting salary after college major in STEM. </p>
<p>Attend Princeton to obtain a great education. A high salary is just a bonus.</p>
<p>What’s wrong with majoring in politics? Purportedly, investment banking firms care very little about the major. They only care about the school name.</p>
<p>And is economics really even all that useful in investment banking?</p>
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<p>Yes, but what if you can’t land a banking job? With a degree in Government, sorry even if it is from Princeton, it wouldn’t really garner you very good job prospects outside finance sector. (In reality, employers outside investment banking and management consulting don’t give a fu-c-k about the prestige of your college. They care much more about your marketability, college major, skills, and work experience as an employee)</p>
<p>That is essentially my point: attending a top Ivy gives you chance to get IB jobs, at the same time, it comes with a big downward risk. In other words, it has great room for both big upshot and big downward potential with regards to employment outcome. As shown in this thread, getting a banking job even at a top Ivy is no where guaranteed. </p>
<p>With a degree in humanities, in case you strike out on finance, chances are great that you will either end up unemployed or get a job working in non-profit for 35k/ year, just like where many of humanities majors from Ivy end up. Hence, it really is a risky proposition and path that I wouldn’t pursue. A safer option is to major in STEM, accounting, computer science, etc, regardless of where you attend college, for surer bet at a strong job placement.</p>
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<p>I am puzzled by your reading comprehension skills. </p>
<p>What I am saying is not geared towards Princeton specifically, but overall to the Ivy League and other top privates. No, going to an Ivy won’t even come close to guaranteeing you a good job upon graduation, as evidenced by the career statistics sources from Princeton itself. The largest employment sector of Princeton grads was in non-profit where 16% of Princeton grads ended up at, with starting salaries of 36k per year. Frankly, this is very mediocre salary and mediocre job, supposedly for those godly Princeton students who are future leaders of our generation under your imagination.</p>
<p>For instance, I would be pretty annoyed if I end up with some 36k job after Princeton or whatever, and I see my friends who majored in accounting at our state school making double the salary of what I am making. To be honest, I am pretty sure I can make that much even if i dropped out of high school.</p>
<p>That was in response to Tigerlicious’ post.</p>
<p>And if you’re going to compare Princeton to state schools, please don’t compare a humanities major at Princeton vs a math major at a state school. Clearly, the difference in success there comes from the major, and not the school.</p>
<p>Our argument clearly centers on the degree of success attained between schools. If you want to argue about which majors are better for the job market, then I agree with you that quantitative majors are better than humanities majors.</p>
<p>But that still does not bolster your argument that a kid from Princeton does not have any advantages over a kid from a state school. </p>
<p>Also, if you’re going to give me those statistics of unemployment at Princeton, please provide the employment statistics of a state school, or Cornell, or whatever crappy lower tier Ivy you went to.</p>
<p>That would provide a more meaningful measure as opposed to “OH A MATH MAJOR FROM A STATE SCHOOL IS CLEARLY BETTER THAN A POLI SCI MAJOR FROM PRINCETON, SO THE STATE SCHOOLS ARE BETTER”</p>
<p>Your argument is clearly flawed.</p>
<p>If you think a political science major at Princeton is screwed, then a political science major at a state school is REALLY screwed - that is a more logically sound statement.</p>
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<p>See, I never compared state school math major to humanities major at Princeton. That is not the point. Why is all-else assumption irrelevant here? Because that is not the point. The point is that one’s choice of major plays a LARGER role than the choice of SCHOOL you attend, you ■■■■■■. Hence, your OP that 'Going to Princeton will set you up for life" is flat-out wrong. Instead, you should rephrase “You should major in X,Y,Z and do well to maximize your employment potential after college”. That is much more in-line with reality. How many times do you need to read same crap to understand? </p>
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<p>Actually, I think they both are screwed equally. Look at the employment stats. You can’t really get much worse jobs than non-profit gigs paying 35k a year, which many of humanities majors at Princeton end up with. Or, many Princeton grads graduate unemployed. (25% of them) I am sure someone from no-name school can work decently hard to get a 35k/year job, no problem. The point is that if you strike out on finance/ top consulting, and you are humanities major, then you are EQUALLY screwed coming out of Princeton, as any other State school grad.</p>
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<p>The reason I provided Princeton’s career stats is because it is the most comprehensive data among Ivies. Princeton is the only Ivy that makes it mandatory that its graduates take post-graduation survey so it has 98% of all its graduates’ post-graduation job placement. </p>
<p>You can call Cornell a crappy lower tier Ivy all you want. I don’t care, I didn’t really like Cornell all that much due to its crappy location and terrible weather and I am happy I got out. I am attending Columbia Law School tho, which is uber-elite.</p>
<p>Also, I got over 2300 on SAT and 173 on LSAT, so if these standardized test scores are any indication, I did better than your revered average Princeton classmate. Average LSAT score of Princeton students applying to law schools is 165 and an average student from Princeton won’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of getting into a top 6 law school.</p>
<p>Bottom line: for certain careers such as Investment Banking, Management Consulting, and Law, where you go to school matters. For the vast majority of OTHER careers, not so much. </p>
<p>If you said something like “Going to Princeton will improve your chances of getting an IB job, if that is where you want to go into”, then I would agree with you.</p>
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<p>This is credited.</p>
<p>This argument is stupid but what was your GPA LazyKid? If your LSDAS GPA is between 3.0 and 3.3, what kind of LSAT score do you need to get into NYU, Columbia, Penn or UVA? Will a 175 cut it if I apply Early Decision to one of these places?</p>
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<p>My LSDAS GPA was 3.7x. Rounded up, it was close to 3.8. </p>
<p>For NYU, you stand a chance with 175 LSAT / 3.3 GPA, but admission is unlikely. To crack top 6 law school acceptance, the general consensus is that minimum GPA of 3.5 is ideal, along with 172+ LSAT score. However, if you have something ridiculous like 178 LSAT, you might get into to NYU/ Columbia with 3.2-3.3 GPA. But, it is crapshoot at that point. I heard from some sources that people with this kind of stats in past have been both accepted and rejected at NYU/ Columbia type of schools, and there is no consistent pattern. Within my group of social circle, I don’t know anyone with such a high LSAT score (176-180) that I don’t exactly know how admissions pan out for individuals with such scores.</p>
<p>My friend had 3.46 GPA with 175 LSAT and he was wait-listed at NYU and Columbia. Penn is also unlikely. You will have decent shot at splitter-friendly law schools such as UVA, Georgetown, and Northwestern. For example, Northwestern requires that you have at least 2 years of full time work experience. But, if you do have this work experience, you can have 3.0 GPA and still get in, if your LSAT is above 171-172, with early decision application.</p>
<p>OK, finally we are getting somewhere, Lazykid.</p>
<p>You believe “one’s choice of major is more important than one’s choice of SCHOOL.”</p>
<p>You could have stated that from the very beginning rather than nitpicking at all these little data points, humanities vs quantitative majors, etc.</p>
<p>I disagree with you FULLY on that one.</p>
<p>CHOICE of SCHOOL > CHOICE of MAJOR.</p>
<p>And to all of you who think the IVY League education ONLY matters on Wall Street, then you’re fooling yourselves.</p>
<p>Do you really think, in ANY type of job sector, they would take a state school grad over an Ivy League grad CETERIS PARIBUS?</p>
<p>Hell, no.</p>
<p>Also, LazyKid, as a Cornell alum and current Columbia grad student, what are you doing on the Princeton forum anyway? You don’t belong here. It is for intelligent people only. Please go back to your own dirtbag forum which I never even bothered to click on when I was applying to schools.</p>
<p>I wonder what the admissions officer was smoking when he admitted you into Princeton, Fermat. A friend of mine is applying to Princeton for '16. If it’s populated by elitist pseudo-intellectuals with reading comprehension issues then I should probably discourage him from doing so.</p>
<p>Yeah, you probably should discourage him from applying. Even so, he’ll probably still apply, because he knows it’s Princeton. Hahaha.</p>
<p>“You can call Cornell a crappy lower tier Ivy all you want. I don’t care, I didn’t really like Cornell all that much due to its crappy location and terrible weather and I am happy I got out. I am attending Columbia Law School tho, which is uber-elite.”</p>
<p>Check this out. The same LazyKid that has been berating me for an elitist prick is calling his own school “uber-elite.” Man, you just went against everything you just said. Practice what you preach.</p>
<p>And most importantly, to the applicants out there, I didn’t mean to be such a prick until you guys started attacking my original post. I still stand by what I think. It is a very critical time in your lives and I hope you take your application seriously. Going to a top notch college is SICK, and opens just so many more doors. Best of luck to the applicants.</p>
<p>I agree with lazykid , school does not matter , going to princeton or Harvard or whatever will not grant you a 100k salary , it is absurd to think so. It is you the person, not the school name, that matters . You could go to a state college and still get WAY better jobs than Princeton Grad or whatever. </p>
<p>And Format , could you please keep calm and keep the discussion civilized , no need for hate language, people are juat discussing and presentin their thoughts , you can’t make everyone agree to your point of view , that’s impossible. </p>
<p>BTW Cornell is a great place to be in .</p>
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<p>I happened to look around this forum cuz my bro is applying to colleges and he’s applying to Princeton. So I just happened to look around. And, dude, I am sure you were a development admit or URM/ sports -admit at Princeton. Your maturity and intelligence level are lower than my 6th grade sister. You are quite arrogant and ignorant. There is no way you got into Princeton with your level of intellect, if you were a standard white applicant with no hooks.</p>
<p>And, why do you keep resorting to ad-hominem attacks, you prick? I don’t give a f-uck that you are making fun of Cornell or whatever. It doesn’t bother me. Actually, I disliked Cornell. Just because I proved your points are ■■■■■■■■, it doesn’t make me a ■■■■■■.</p>
<p>What do you call a person who corrects a ■■■■■■■■ person’s outrageous views? You said going to Princeton will set you up for life, and automatic ticket to 100k job on the street. You are a clown. It’s either you are too dumb to understand simple statistics on the survey, or have too crappy of eye vision to read for crap.</p>