<p>sorry, i have to say, as a former bowdoin student, i went to the ocean quite frequently. and friends of mine lived on islands. so, i don't think it's uncommon for a bowdoin student to regularly be at the shore. </p>
<p>i did not, however, frequent boston, but i suspect i visited as much as midd students visit montreal. </p>
<p>this thread is an exercise in treating like things alike.</p>
<p>Laxtaxi:</p>
<p>Re-read post #13 for reading comprehension purposes. It clearly states that "my D ended up in Boston, and felt she could have survived Brunswick, but not Middlebury or Williamstown." To break it down in simpler terms for you: My D is in college in the Boston area, but thought that she could have survived Brusnwick, but not the so-called "isolation" of Middlebury or Williamstown. And yes, she was choosing from amongst a couple of those colleges last Spring.</p>
<p>And before you start ranting about how I am talking about Brunswick and do not have any knowledge of it since I don't have a Bowdoin student, I will caution you that I have been going to Brunswick 3-4 times a year since about 1980 or so, as both sides of my husband's family are from Brunswick. In fact, his Grandmother's house is directly across from the Bowdoin campus and is now called Riley House, I believe. </p>
<p>First you pick on Modadunn for her use of the word "stoic". Then you pick a fight with me about Bowdoin.</p>
<p>I still stand by my assertion that the actual TOWN of Brunswick offers more choices of stores, restaurants, etc. than either Middlebury or Williamstown. And yes, I have visited all three.</p>
<p>pb2002:</p>
<p>Did you have your first year orientation meal at Estes??</p>
<p>^Sheesh. Lighten up, Mom. I missed what you said about your daughter's school. I re-read the post as you asked and you are right. Mea culpa. But I'm picking fights because I challenged your comment? You posted an opinion. I challenged it. No sense getting all weepy over it. </p>
<p>I also re-read my last post and suggest you might do so too. Why are you defending your knowledge about Brunswick? I never questioned it. In fact, to respond to my question, you would have to have knowledge of Brunswick. I asked you to think of attributes of Brunswick and compare them to Williamstown and Middlebury:</p>
<p>pick an attribute of Brunswick that is actually utilized by Bowdoin students and you can find its corollary in either Middlebury or Williamstown </p>
<p>My premise is that one can find corrolaries of each positive attribute at each of the three schools. Far from questioning your knowledge of the three towns, I assume it. This was to point out that these towns are far more alike then they are different. I haven't read anyone disagreeing with that assertion. Do you? </p>
<p>I actually agree with you that Brunswick has more stores and restaurants than Midd or W'town. My assertion is that, while this is true, it is a matter of degree, and the towns are much more alike than they are different. This is in support of my assertion for the OP that the social lives of students of Williams, Middlebury and Bowdoin are more alike than they are different.</p>
<p>PB2002 points out that Bowdoin students do live on and enjoy Casco Bay. I learned something new and I'm glad. My assumption that Bowdoin students don't venture to the water much is apparently wrong. Attending Bowdoin and living on Harpswell or Orr's Island would be sweet. Probably the corollary at Middlebury would be to live on a sheep farm with great views of the Adirondacks. Similarly lovely vistas exist around W'town too. On balance, the gist of PB2002's information seems to be that the the "cool places to live during your four years in college" edge may go to Bowdoin.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Brunswick:Portland as Middlebury:Burlington as Williamstown:Amherst. I know all three towns and you can be exquisitely bored or wonderfully engaged in any of the three. They are all much more similar than they are different.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is some truth to this, except that (according to Windows Live Maps):</p>
<p>Brunswick:Portland = 29 minutes
Middlebury:Burlington = 52 minutes
Williamstown:Amherst = 98 minutes</p>
<p>Obviously none of these schools are urban, but my guess is that the Bowdoin experience really is more "metropolitan" -- or at least has the potential to be -- due to the relative proximity of Portland. Another factor is the size of the surrounding communities:</p>
<p>Brunswick: 14,816
Middlebury: 6,252
Williamstown: 4,754</p>
<p>(note that these are not the population figures for the entire "Town", which in New England covers an area of some 40-50 square miles -- these are the 2000 numbers for the "census designated places", or CDPs, which represent the communities in the immediate vicinity of the colleges)</p>
<p>This doesn't mean that Middlebury or Williams students are miserable in their isolation (on the contrary, the term "happy camper" comes to mind). But potential applicants should have realistic expectations regarding the availability of off-campus social and recreational options at schools like these. They aren't for everyone.</p>
<p>There could be people who apply to Bowdoin, but not Middlebury or Williams, because they perceive M & W as too isolated. Conversely, there could be people who apply to M & W, but not B, because they perceive B as too suburban.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I still stand by my assertion that the actual TOWN of Brunswick offers more choices of stores, restaurants, etc. than either Middlebury or Williamstown. And yes, I have visited all three.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Brunswick is twice the size of Middlebury, so I'd imagine that it offers twice the number of stores, restaurants, etc. That being said, IMHO, Middlebury is quainter than Brunswick or Williamstown. Many have called Middlebury the “quintessential New England town.” From the town green, to the Otter Creek running through the village center, to the small craft stores lining the side streets off Main, Middlebury is about as historic and picturesque as they come. And while Bowdoin may have the Atlantic Coast nearby (but certainly not a quick walk from campus), Middlebury is surrounded by mountains, which are visible from every corner of campus.</p>
<p>I hate to open up this can of worms, but... am I the only one that finds it funny that Williams kids would go to Amherst for excitement? I mean, why not just attend Amherst in the first place?</p>
<p>Jarsilver, that is kinda funny. Maybe the answer lies in those who like to live in rural areas outside major cities - enjoying the urban amenities without having to live there! Hard to consider Amherst as "urban" of course, but accurate in this context. Only on the Amherst site would someone suggest the answer is that Williams students can't get accepted to Amherst. </p>
<p>Corbett, those time-by-car figures are telling. I hadn't thought about the discrepancies in distances. Especially for Williams students, for whom Boston isn't that much farther than Amherst. As between Bowdoin and Williams students, I suspect that travel time to Boston is a virtual wash.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hate to open up this can of worms, but... am I the only one that finds it funny that Williams kids would go to Amherst for excitement? I mean, why not just attend Amherst in the first place?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The point is that Williams kids generally don't go to Amherst for excitement, despite the Brunswick:Portland and Williamstown:Amherst comparison posted above. It's a much longer and more difficult drive (especially on Route 2 in the winter). So the comparison is misleading. </p>
<p>I'm sure that Williams kids do travel to the Amherst area for entertainment sometimes, just as Amherst or Smith kids might travel to Jiminy or Brodie (ski/snowboard areas near Williams) for winter sports. But the reality is that travelling to Amherst is not a characteristic part of the college experience at Williams -- whereas traveling to Portland or Freeport may well be something that Bowdoin students do routinely.</p>
<p>Arcadia:</p>
<p>My H and I completely loved Middlebury after a visit in the fall and during Accepted Students Weekend in April-stunningly beautiful and so much like his beloved Colgate!! But, alas. We could not get D to look past the rural surroundings, where, she knew, she would not be happy. So, she is in Boston and having the time of her life.</p>
<p>H was especially disappointed because he could have hiked on the AT, which, I think, is not that far away??</p>
<p>Jarsilver: I think it's hilarious that Williams kids would go to Amherst for excitement, although if you've been to Williamstown, you probably can't blame them too much! Plus, they can keep their purple attire on in both places-how convenient!</p>
<p>
[quote]
H was especially disappointed because he could have hiked on the AT, which, I think, is not that far away??
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The Appalachian Trail goes through college towns as it enters and leaves Vermont (Williamstown MA and Hanover NH). But it completely misses Middlebury. </p>
<p>You are probably thinking of the older (but less well known) Long Trail, which runs the length of Vermont. The AT and LT run together in southern VT, but the LT continues north (towards Canada) after the AT turns east (towards New Hampshire). The LT passes near the Middlebury College Snow Bowl (ski area), which is in the mountains about 14 miles east of the College.</p>
<p>I feel no need to defend Williams, but we are overlooking the fact that it's only 64 minutes from Albany. I'm not sure why you would select Amherst (a mid-size college town) over Albany (a good-sized city and state capital). I do not, however, know whether ephs actually go to Albany. The added importance of Burlington, Brunswick, and Albany (as opposed to Amherst) is the proximity to major airports and train stations to access "the real world". </p>
<p>On the other hand, one huge advantage to isolation is that the college knows you can't easily get certain services elsewhere and thus provides them for you. It's like Denver. There are no major cities anywhere near Denver so Denver supplies everything that a city its size wouldn't normally provide. A city the size of Denver wouldn't normally have All four major sports, it wouldn't normally have a quality Symphony, or Art Museum, but because people travel from all around Denver to get to "the City", it can support those things. It's the same at Colleges like Middlebury, Williams, or Bowdoin. They're small and isolated, but because of that small size and isolation they have some of the best programs in the country. </p>
<p>But we all know Middlebury is the best of the three ;)</p>
<p>We live in the cold midwest. Very cold. So weather was no issue. It would be hard to dish out something that's not regular around here. We also live in a pretty cool city already. So when my son was looking at schools, he figured he had his whole life to live in a big city. So it was the rural location. But what becomes a big deal is the travel time to and from the midwest (and available options etc). For example: Colby takes an entire days travel to get home or back (something like 11 hours). Flying into Boston is a straight 2 hours with time difference. And Midd is also a straight flight over just a few hours. We want our kid to be able to come home for a quick weekend if he needs it OR for us to go out there easily. So, why one might apply to Hamilton but not Colby and Amherst over Williams may have more to do with getting there than what's there once you are.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I feel no need to defend Williams, but we are overlooking the fact that it's only 64 minutes from Albany. I'm not sure why you would select Amherst (a mid-size college town) over Albany (a good-sized city and state capital).
[/quote]
The key here is the term "college town". The City of Amherst has one of the largest concentrations of college students in the northeast, and a reputation for student-oriented events and recreation. Historically, the social opportunities at Smith and Mt. Holyoke Colleges were of particular interest to the Williams community, although this has changed significantly since 1970, when Williams went coed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I do not, however, know whether ephs actually go to Albany.
[/quote]
My impression is that Ephs are often familiar with the Albany airport, but don't find many reasons to visit the Albany metro area otherwise.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I feel no need to defend Williams, but we are overlooking the fact that it's only 64 minutes from Albany. I'm not sure why you would select Amherst (a mid-size college town) over Albany (a good-sized city and state capital).
[/quote]
The key here is the term "college town". The City of Amherst has one of the largest concentrations of college students in the northeast, and a reputation for student-oriented events and recreation. Historically, the social opportunities at Smith and Mt. Holyoke Colleges were of particular interest to the Williams community, although this has changed dramatically since 1970, when Williams went coed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I do not, however, know whether ephs actually go to Albany.
[/quote]
My impression is that Ephs are often familiar with the Albany airport, but do not see any other compelling reasons to visit the Albany metro area.</p>
<p>Modadunn: It ought not take you 11 hours to get to Colby. If you can fly to Boston in two hours, it's 3+ hours by car from there to Waterville (Colby's location). Also, not sure where you live in the mid-West, but there are direct flights from some mid-West gateway cities into Portland (1.25 hrs drive to Waterville) and Bangor (1 hour drive to Waterville). And, of the schools you are considering, in Maine you might throw Bates into the mix - less than an hour's drive to the Portland jetport. </p>
<p>Mom - a peace offering. If your H is interested in hiking and wants to try something new, go to this website - <a href="http://www.mainehuts.org%5B/url%5D">www.mainehuts.org</a>. Maine is creating a Euro-style hut-to-hut hiking experience in the Western Maine mountains. Two huts are in place and operating now with a third under construction. Beautiful. To keep this tied into the theme of the thread, these would be about 2 hours drive from Bowdoin (closer for Bates and Colby).</p>
<p>LaxTaxi.. in talking to MANY parents whose children attend Colby from here AND considering the flight schedules and the need to take a bus or some other public or otherwise contrived transportation, it isn't like you just rent a car and drive to school once you land in Boston. Let's just say that it has been confirmed numerous times to us that the travel time takes an entire day which makes it nearly impossible to come home for a weekend when you wouldn't get in until VERY late friday (if you can even get out then) and have to leave very early on Sunday morning in order to catch a bus back to school. And apparently it is often the case that you end up with a layover in Detroit. And since my kid wont have a car on campus for at the very least the first year, it was just one thing among many that we considered when looking at schools in the east. Believe me or not, but unless you have the bus and flight schedules in front of you, I don't think you would truly know.</p>
<p>Laxtaxi:</p>
<p>Olive branch extended right back atcha!! Thanks.</p>
<p>Way cool on the Maine huts. Wonder how they compare to the huts in the White Mountains? He's done most of the Maine AT, including Katahdin, but this looks really great! Every once in a while, I think he's going to come home from work, pack up and hit the trail for 6 months and just do it all at once-his dream! But for now, he'll have to settle for bits and pieces at a time. I'll be sure to send him this link.</p>
<p>Moda, taking into account the limitations of what is available for college students, I can see your point. Logan Airport is a PITA and the buses heading north stop at least once, in Portland, which would add to the drive. So I can see your point about how getting to Colby would be an ordeal. Especially as compared to Bowdoin, where you can fly into PWM and be on campus in 35 minutes. </p>
<p>Mom, the new Maine huts are incredible. I know some of the folks who planned, built, plumbed and heated them. These are not mere shelters, or unheated cabins with cold water like the White Mountain huts. These have state-of-the-art technology so they remain off the grid but have electricity, hot showers, heat - the whole works. Google some of the articles and you'll see. Don't just send H off, you should go with him. The hike/ski in can be as easy or challenging as you choose.</p>
<p>While those "huts" sound very little like any hut I've ever seen, is it possible to love Middlebury if you're not a hiker per say? My son loves sports, is a damn fine skier but when he went to NH to do a week long outdoor adventure, was pretty primed to find a shower ASAP just about the second day!!</p>
<p>Moda, the answer is unequically "yes." There are hikers and there are hikers. To be happy at Middlebury, I think it helps to have an appreciation for nature and the outdoors. Partaking in outdoor activities is definitely a plus. But a "hike" can be an afternoon walk on a benign trail in the Green Mountains. Relatively few Midd students go all hard-core beyond that. Some do, and Midd has an amazing outing club for those that want to learn or teach others. But if you son likes hot showers with regularity, or doesn't like to be far from a plug for his razor or blowdrier, he will not be an outlyer.</p>