<p>^^^ I disagree. The interaction is certainly important, but for me, low numbers can be a deal breaker (though I am more understanding with schools in remote areas or states w/ a small black populaiton). Also, a number of my friends have outright refused to consider certain schools b/c of low Jewish enrollment - - even though that number is often considerably higher than black enrollment. </p>
<p>Socially, I want for my D, what all parents want: the opportunity to make friends with students of different backgrounds, w/ whom she has some common interests, but also some of whom are also of the same race. And the latter is impossible w/o more than couple handfuls of black students. </p>
<p>The black enrollment a Muhlenber is about 2%; that means a total black enrollment of about 50 students, lower than I'd like. But even if the numbers were stronger, the description of the student population as "somewhat narrow" would give me pause. Teriwtt, what do you mean by "somewhat narrow?" Do you mean the campus is more homogenous with respect to factors other than racial diversity? </p>
<p>Also, while there may be "turf wars" at some schools w/ more diverse student bodies than Muhlenberg, at many schools the increased diversity leads to increased cross-race interaction.</p>
<p>I didn't even think about that Teriwtt, that's a really good point and I think that people look past that. I know that at my brother's school there is a lot of diversity but even from a one night visit I saw how segregated these groups were. The black kids hung out with other black kids, the asains by themselves, and internationals were together with other internationals. I think that people interacting with members of the same and different racial and ethnic groups is so important, more important than just statistical numbers. It says a lot about the student body and the campus feel, while the diversity statistics only credit the admissions directors.</p>
<p>1- It's easy for folks in the majority to dismiss the importance of numbers.</p>
<p>2- If a campus (not necessarily Muhlenberg) has so little diversity that even when/if the students of color self-segregate you don't have the same visual impact as on a more diverse campus, that doesn't mean there's more interaction. </p>
<p>My college was about 5% black and there was a fair amount of interaction. But at meals, black students often sat together at "their own" table - - except in the houses where there were too few black students to fill a table. The three black students at the table with five white students were still together in their own group, but the visual impact of clusters was different than the impact of a cluster of six black students (regardless of whether the two remaining seats were empty or filled by non-black students).</p>
<p>I noticed a similar pattern at D1's prep school, which was 20% black - - and which we selected over another school where D would have been the only African-American girl on campus (there were three African int'l students).</p>
<p>
[quote]
But even if the numbers were stronger, the description of the student population as "somewhat narrow" would give me pause. Teriwtt, what do you mean by "somewhat narrow?" Do you mean the campus is more homogenous with respect to factors other than racial diversity?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I communicated that message wrong. What I meant to say is that, to an outsider just visiting for the day, it might 'appear' that the campus is somewhat narrow in regards to accepting diversity, just based on numbers of black students you might see walking on campus. </p>
<p>I will also say that of the many times I've now been on campus, and eaten in both the GQ and Garden Room, I've never seen a table of just black kids... ever. </p>
<p>Look, I'm not trying to talk you into something that you're obviously uncomfortable with, but I would be saying the same thing to anyone who states they want their child to experience diversity, and directs the child toward schools that have higher numbers of blacks and other UMs, but they might have little to no interaction with each other. If the numbers are bigger, but they're all segregated, haven't you missed the purpose for directing them toward those schools?</p>
<p>I'm all for diversity, but having same-race friends in that circle is also important. I wouldn't want most of D's interactions to HAVE to be out of race b/c of the limited number of black students on campus. </p>
<p>And then there are the related, ancillary issues: in remote, predominately white communites, where do girls get their hair done; and since most dating is in-race are there boys for them to date (shortage of boys is even more dramatic among black college students). This has been the source of much discussion on the black parents' thread. [Also, I doubt that at schools w/ more diversity "they're all segregated" any more than all the students at Muhlenberg are preppy, J. Crew types :-) ]</p>
<p>Finally, despite the fact that the black students do not self-segregate, it appears that it is easy for white students to pass through w/o interacting with blacks students (see post #12). And, fyi, many of the black parents posting on these boards have kids who have had plenty of diverse experiences prior to college; quite a few of our kids have attended predominately white schools - - be they rigorous public schools, private day schools or elite prep schools. One mother on the black parents' thread noted that after having been the only black child for many years, college was her D's first opportunity to have a circle of black friends at school. So what no doubt appeared to an on-looker as limiting self-segregation was, for her D, as much of a new social experience as interacting with minority students might be for white students.</p>
<p>"One mother on the black parents' thread noted that after having been the only black child for many years, college was her D's first opportunity to have a circle of black friends at school. So what no doubt appeared to an on-looker as limiting self-segregation was, for her D, as much of a new social experience as interacting with minority students might be for white students."</p>
<p>Don't know if that was me; I'm sure I'm not alone in that experience.</p>
<p>We live in a semi-rural area within 8-9 miles of Muhlenberg. This was a college not on my D's radar until this week. She has decided to apply because it is so close to home. She wants options when she finally has to make a college decision in April. </p>
<p>Muhlenberg does not strike me as a college that makes much of an effort to recruit minority students (my D is a URM). If they get them, they get them; if they don't, they don't cry about it. It's a neutral attitude, in my opinion. If a URM with strong academics happens to walk through the door, they'll eagerly admit them, but unlike other LACs, they don't go out looking for them. I'm not sure what to make of that passive approach. </p>
<p>My D has already been admitted to Ursinus College, an LAC with almost identical admissions requirements as Muhlenberg, but with a 9% African American enrollment. The only "problem" with Ursinus is that it's too far away to commute, which means extra expense for room and board. On the other hand, Muhlenberg is practically in our backyard. Still, I've not heard a single word about racial problems on M'berg's campus. Then again, it's difficult to experience racial problems if almost everybody is the same race. I'm not sure what to make of the school, to be honest. </p>
<p>I'm personally hoping my D gets admitted to one of her reach schools that are very liberal like Brown, Amherst, Wesleyan, or Swarthmore. Then this issue will be settled. If not, it'll be Ursinus, Muhlenberg, Dickinson or Penn State. Dickinson is ranked a little higher than M'berg and Ursinus, and Penn State, bless its heart, is priced reasonably.</p>
<p>Plainsman, I posted a question on the Ursinus board asking about frats and sororities. If you recall anything about Greek participation at Ursinus, please reply via PM or on the Ursinus board (so as not to hijacat this thread). Thanks.</p>
<p>there's more than simply racial diversity. that's only one small facet of the spectrum. what about religious, sexual orientation and socioeconomic diversity?</p>
<p>Sure, there are lots of types of diversity. But unlike other forms of diversity, black enrollment - - or the lack thereof - - will have a direct and very profound impact on as my black child's comfort level, and that makes it of paramount importance to me.</p>
<p>NYC: Quick answer--I know nothing about Greek life on campus at Ursinus. My D is not interested in it.</p>
<p>mattman13--you are correct, but so is foolishpleasure. The types of diversity to which you are referring are largely, though not entirely, invisible. If you're not white, everybody knows it. 99% of the time, anyway.</p>
<p>This might be of interest re diversity initiatives at Muhlenberg (from latest Campus Update):</p>
<p>
[quote]
Congratulations to Associate Professor Paul Meier (Biology) and Professor Don Shive (Chemistry) for their successful NSF grant for Scholars in Math and Science (SIMS), a program to enhance diversity in the sciences. The grant provides $10,000 scholarships for 8 students majoring in the sciences and will be renewed as we complete outlined objectives, for a total of $470,000. As part of the work plan, Air Products and The Caring Place will provide internship and mentorship opportunities for students.
<p>soozi1 - all I can report is what I saw of my D's friends from freshman year (she's a sophomore now) who started out pre-med. They hit you pretty hard from the beginning, in order to weed out those who aren't cut out for it. Some kids dropped out of pre-med (as I'm sure happens on many other campuses, too) after just one or two semesters.</p>
<p>M's placement for med schools is very, very high. The reason for this is that the faculty sets very high expectations of its students and will not hand out med school recommendations to just any student who is graduating. So those who do make it through the program, and apply to med school, are solid candidates and well-prepared. I guess this is no secret on campus and students know they cannot slack off for even one semester. But if they give it their all, they have a great shot a med school acceptance, better than most schools in the country.</p>
<p>soozi1, my boyfriend and his roommate are pre-med... They told me once that there are about 100 people in one of their classes. I don't know if it was recitation or lecture but it was the same for both bio and chem. And just going by the amount of time they spend working and studying, I'd say the program is really difficult! But I know nothing about science, haha.</p>
<p>chellybelly - I remember hearing that there are only a few classes on campus that are 100 people; it would make sense to me that introductory science classes for pre-meds might be one of them since there are so many pre-med majors.</p>
<p>My son is a soph at M. I can tell you he is not one of those preppy kids and he is not the only one rebelling against dressing nice until he starts looking for a job. I have heard there are lots of parties and drinking which he does not do. There are certainly lots of organizations from running the gamut of political and social orientation. So, I think your good time will depend on what you are looking for. Having graduated from a different small lib art college, I remember that we had more responsibility to make our own good time than the spoon fed kids at the larger universities -</p>