Social Science PhDs, J.D.s, and the prepping thereof.

Graduate School Law School
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<p>I'm a undergraduate freshman at Princeton right now, yet I'm already worrying about graduate school.
I've always felt a huge pull towards social sciences/humanities and the world of academia, and spending a semester in college has only strengthened by want for that. At the same time the law life seems rather attractive - especially legal academia.</p>

<p>When I was applying to undergraduate college, I hugely regretted not having started preparing earlier in my high school career [though I got into Princeton (though not to Columbia/Pomona College), I had an extremely low outside scholarship success rate - which I needed because of lack of qualification for financial aid].</p>

<p>So I am fairly sure that I want to do the PhD! I'm 90% sure it will be in History. I'm also thinking about getting that J.D.</p>

<p>I've heard about the history PhD application process, but there isn't the same literature out there that there is for things like law and business schools.</p>

<p>What's a person to do to prepare? (besides being yourself I suppose)</p>

<p>I suppose what I mean is that if there is an equally appealing choice of things I can do while an undergrad, I will make the most helpful choices.</p>

<p>What are the weights (approximate of course - I know things are fuzzy) given to undergraduate GPA, number of foreign languages proficient in, amount of research published, GRE score, prestige of professors who give recommendations, undergraduate school, study abroad experience, work experience, etc?</p>

<p>Also, does anyone know of anyone who has actually done the joint JD/PhD programs? I know of schools who explicitly offer it (Northwestern, Columbia), but which schools offer it only unofficially?</p>

<p>I guess the last thing is the debate over how best to spend my three summers during undergrad. What kind of things would be "best?" (Among the things I like, of course!) Which work/internships/research should I do?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>Seriously, don't think about trying to do both. Yes, a few people do, but it's not a good idea for most people.</p>

<p>First, a Ph.D. in history, from one of the top schools, takes about 7 years on average to complete right now. You aren't expected to pay for this. Many top schools offer "free" tuition and a living stipend for graduate students. At some schools, math and science students get higher stipends than history types. I don't claim to be an expert, but generally speaking, the single most important factor in admissions is the quality of the recommendations you get from faculty. If the history profs at Princeton say you are one of the best students ever, you'll get into top programs. But it's also a matter of matching up your interests with the interests of the advisors in the graduate programs you apply to. In other words, if you are especially interested in ancient Egypt, you'll end up looking for good faculty in that area and may end up at a very different school than your friend who is interested in 17th Century Magyars. It's really not so much the name of the program, it's the name of the person who is your thesis advisor AND how much interest that person takes in graduate students and, yes, even how you personally just plain get along with that person. </p>

<p>Language proficiency is also important, but it's proficiency in the language(s) needed for your field that matters most. If you are interested in 17th Century Magyars, being fluent in French and Portuguese isn't going to help much--though any language is SOME help. </p>

<p>So, if you have an area of particular interest, or you develop one, the thing to do really is to talk to the Princeton prof in that area--or the one closest to it--and do your junior or senior paper--can't remember what they are called at P'ton, but I know you do two--with that person. You may also have the opportunity to work as a research assistant for a history prof during the school year and summers. The bottom line: if you want to get a Ph.D., get to know your history profs well right from the start of your career. Some schools often have guest speakers give talks at the department. Princeton probably does. Go..act interested. Don't ask too many questions as a freshman, but just go and listen and observe. </p>

<p>Law is an entirely different path, as you know. Being an outstanding historian will help, not hurt, you in the effort to get into top schools. But trying to do both is tough. You will NOT get funding for the years during which you are a law student at most schools, even if you are simultaneously working on a thesis or doing research. Your responsibilities as a graduate student will probably preclude you from taking one of the lucrative summer jobs that help law students out financially. So, unless your parents will pay for it, count on being at least $150,000 in debt at graduation. (The cost of attendance at top law schools now is roughly $50,000 a year. ) A FEW schools do have very, very good loan forgiveness programs, so that if you get into one of those and are eligible for loans you won't have to pay back the full amount if you do take an academic job. </p>

<p>The path that most people who do this take is to get one degree, get into academics, and get the other. For example, there are poli sci or history profs who got teaching positions at top schools and attended the affiliated law schools as faculty members...which usually means not having to pay full or even any tuition. Some people do follow both paths simultaneously. If you do, realize that you'll be lucky if you finish within 9 years.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the advice.</p>

<p>One of the things I was most hazy about was the financial aspect of it! I just naively assumed that tuition would also be waived for the J.D! (At least for the first five years). I didn't know about getting a J.D. as a faculty member, as well.</p>

<p>I think I will shoot (at least for now!) for that Ph.D, then.</p>

<p>About being a research assistant in history - how does one go about doing this? I know how people do this in economics, biology, engineering, but how in history?</p>

<p>Thanks! Did you once think of going to History G.S. yourself?</p>

<p>Why does College Confidential not have an Arts/Sciences G.S. bulletin board, anyways! It is criminal (meant respectfully, of course).</p>

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<p>I think it would be a good idea for there to be a separate graduate board. </p>

<p>I'm a parent. While I did apply to both professional and graduate school way back when, my response is based on the more recent experience of my kids and their friends. </p>

<p>Again, to find out how to get a job as a research assistant at Princeton, talk to the profs at Princeton. Generally speaking, profs will either post positions in the department and students will apply or if you do well in a course, a prof will offer you a chance to do research. So, step #1 is doing well in the history courses you take and getting to know your profs.</p>

<p>Please understand...no slight intended because I know nothing about you personally...that it is EXTRAORDINARILY difficult to get a teaching position in history. You should aim for a summa from Princeton, a Ph.D. from a top, top program, working with one of the most outstanding historian in your field of interest, etc. It also helps to win a Rhodes or a Marshall or at least a Fullbright. It's a really tough field to break into. There are FAR more Ph.D.s in history than tenured positions.</p>

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<p>In fact I did a lot of depressing research on the History "academic job market" (or lack thereof!) during winter break, and discovered that these things didn't discourage me - I'd do the PhD even if I gained nothing professionally from it - but I do want to do the best I can to "break into" the field.</p>

<p>I'm really looking forward to my history course next semester - Approaches to Asian history. It's a small seminar with a renowned EAS/HIS professor!</p>

<p>Alas - if only my brain was wired to truly love a more marketable field! But I won't force myself to do that! (Thank God that my family doesn't need me to support them with money - but they can't afford to support me at all beyond undergrad)</p>