<p>In the midst of the difficulties of changing Lower class behaviors and mindsets, there is a simple thing that could be done which would have helped: make the FAFSA and the other financial aid forms simpler, make the process of getting grants and scholarships simpler. These kids, no kids, can do these forms.</p>
<p>^ Oh I disagree. Many low income kids do their own FAFSAs. Who else is there to do it? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How could they know if no one shows them? It’s not something that’s innate. And it goes back to the advocacy thing. </p>
<p>I think that is way oversimplifying the problem and victim blaming.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The expected financial contribution calculated through the FAFSA will inevitably require information about parents’ income sources and assets, so I wonder how simple the forms can be or how they can be done without parental cooperation.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you follow the rules, complete your paperwork on time, and respond to emails, as one of these girls failed to do, there is less need for advocacy.</p>
<p>I can’t believe how clueless and harsh some of you are being. As a Hispanic female and the first in my family to go to college, you have no idea how difficult it is “be different” and break the cycle.</p>
<p>
Easier Said Than Done</p>
<p>I don’t think my kids fully understand the financial aid process. I have to tell them what to do: sign this, submit that.</p>
<p>I realize how incredibly lucky my S was. He was raise in a home with 2 parents. His parents were undergoing a period of significant financial hardship during his middle, HS, and college years, but both of them were well educated, from an upper middle class background.</p>
<p>They were willing and able to sacrifice for him, so that he had music lessons even when they didn’t have dental or medical care. He was surrounded by books and cultural capital. He was naturally gifted, with 99% test scores and more.</p>
<p>As a result, he was able to gain admission to schools that truly met 100% of need, and graduate from an Ivy with less than $15K of debt. </p>
<p>How different would his experience would have been if he were one of these girls?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>The article said that income is a bigger factor than race. I’m not sure what being Hispanic has to do with the problem of lower income kids succeeding in college.</p>
<p>It’s still a problem of receiving good advice along with financial help. If your parents aren’t around, then you either need to figure this stuff out by yourself, or you need someone to help you that has been through the process. Even parents with resources can find the process complicated so I it’s harder for those without resources.</p>
<p>YDS, can you expound on your point?</p>
<p>If you come from a family where a parent is missing, you don’t have a lot of money and you don’t have good advice handy from your school, relatives, neighbors, etc., then you’re at a big disadvantage in the college process.</p>
<p>I think that most parents here would say that the college process is a lot of work and that they learn quite a bit here but imagine trying to do that as a teenager. Yes, the information is out there but it’s not always obvious as to where to find it, how good the information is and when you have to get things done by.</p>
<p>One thing about living efficiently - you try to set up processes so that you are efficient with time and money and having a lot of choices can make that easier. Those in the upper-middle-class can make the choices between time and money. If you can’t then there are many things that cost time and that makes things harder.</p>
<p>I’m a Hispanic female. This is a story about three Hispanic females. I simply relate to their circumstances. Neither of my parents made it to HS, so they were of no help when it came to academics, navigating the system, etc. The part that particularly resonated with me is the lack of self-advocacy. My parents basically taught us to be thankful for what we get. I was never taught to ask for more (or what was fair), whether that be FA or a raise or extra credit. And in terms of the bad choices in men … I was written off as a spinster by a cousin, who said, “Why is it the ones who can cook never get married?” I was 21 at the time. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I don’t know if that’s what you’re looking for, Pizza. All I’m trying to say is that when you’re raised in a culture with norms other than what you’ll often find in mainstream America and certainly in higher education, it’s a difficult hill to climb and others may not be aware of the difficulty of the struggle and who see college as a birth-right. I’m still surprised when I talk to friends who say their grandparents went to such-and-such college, like it was no big deal. My grandfathers didn’t get past elementary school. There are just so many American stories out there.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not only is this clueless and victim-blaming, but those behaviors are not only exclusive to the lower socio-economic classes. </p>
<p>I’ve lost count of how many upper/upper-middle class HS classmates and moreso, undergrad classmates at my private LAC and summer Harvard classes who had a rocky start/academic career because they came from private/boarding schools with so much handholding and lax deadlines that they had a hard time adjusting to an environment where that wasn’t as much of a case…like college or moreso, the workplace. </p>
<p>Moreover, many private undergrad colleges/grad schools are only marginally better than those boarding schools in that respect. I cannot believe how many deadline extensions undergrad classmates and some grad school friends get in situations where if I was the Prof and knew them as well as I did…would feel is not only unwarranted…but counterproductive to learning the “how to get it done in a timely manner” attitude needed to survive in the workplace and in life. </p>
<p>Many have suffered heavily for this once they entered the workforce.</p>
<p>Then there’s the matter of not knowing how to set a personal budget because one doesn’t really know the difference between a need/want or to extremes…they feel the need to keep up with the joneses by tossing out their furniture, electronics, sometimes even cars, and remodeling the house every 3-6 months. The latter happened to be more senior colleagues at a financial firm. </p>
<p>One even had the nerve to try to ask me for a loan and be miffed by my refusal after getting himself into a financial hole despite a much higher 6-figure salary because of this BS. :(</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I have a private banker friend that told me a lot of stories about his clients in that vein.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>That can be one advantage of growing up with very little - you’re not used to spending much on anything and you always worry that you’ll have enough. The upper-middle-class has made a lot of mistakes in the last 13 years - but they often have the education, skills, family and connections to bounce back better than the middle and lower classes.</p>
<p>I who grew up in an affluent environment where everyone goes to college, and I am sending my child to a school in a similar environment. I also work in an urban, predominantly low income school. </p>
<p>If my child fails to bring in his homework, and asks for an extension, I’m looked at as a parent who promotes independence, and my child is looked at as a “self-advocate”. </p>
<p>If low income students fail to bring in their homework, or ask for an extension, it’s viewed as evidence that low income parents don’t “value” education, and the children are looked at as “demanding” or “entitled”.</p>
<p>It’s not surprising to me that the students in my son’s school grow as self-advocates, and don’t take no as an answer, while my own students see closed doors as closed.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, I don’t consider myself a “victim” at all. Life is what it is. I just think a little more understanding and less judgment about someone else’s life circumstances would be nice.</p>
<p>ETA: Curious Jane, well said! I should add that my parents wouldn’t allow me to work in HS because they recognized my academic ability and interest. They wanted me to concentrate on school and go to college. My father eventually got his GED while in the military. He read the morning and evening papers front to back every day – and at 84 still reads the morning paper. They valued education. And yet, I only was allowed to go to a juco and live at home for two years and then a state college less than an hour away. And when I graduated, my mother blew a gasket that I was getting an apartment with a cousin because “women should go from their father’s home to their husband’s.” <em>sigh</em> They tried, but it was difficult.</p>
<p>Here are two great programs that involve mentors in supporting low income students in succeeding in college.</p>
<p>[College</a> Preparation and Career Development Programs | Chicago Scholars](<a href=“http://www.chicagoscholars.org/]College”>http://www.chicagoscholars.org/)</p>
<p>[Evanston</a> Scholars - Home](<a href=“http://www.evanstonscholars.org/]Evanston”>http://www.evanstonscholars.org/)</p>
<p>Sounds like the HS is no prize and most likely did not have a guidance department to steer students to appropriate fit schools. Our HS has a very diverse student body (20% free/reduced lunch & many immigrant families) and I know the head of guidance spends significant time w seniors who she knows are financially constrained trying to find the best all-around fit. </p>
<p>It is hard to break the cycle. That said, I know of several kids from D1’s HS class that have already put college plans on hold after a year, have low paying jobs and are living at home.</p>
<p>Interesting video, about 7 minutes, comparing two students in Mass, one wealthy, one middle class.</p>
<p>[Video:</a> Why Education Is No Longer The Great Equalizer | Mother Jones](<a href=“http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12/video-education-great-equalizer]Video:”>Video: Why Education Is No Longer The Great Equalizer – Mother Jones)</p>
<p>which links to “Reuters Investigates”: [Reuters</a> TV | How education lost its role as the great equalizer - Reuters Investigates](<a href=“How education lost its role as the great equalizer - Reuters Investigates | Reuters Video”>http://www.reuters.com/video/2012/12/17/reuters-tv-how-education-lost-its-role-as-the-great?videoId=239941885&videoChannel=117777)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Reduced price school lunch eligibility appears to be about the bottom 40% of the household income scale, so the school appears to have a household income distribution that is skewed high compared to the US overall.</p>
<p>[Income</a> Eligibility Guidelines](<a href=“http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/governance/notices/iegs/iegs.htm]Income”>http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/governance/notices/iegs/iegs.htm)</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Good overview of the problem - I would have liked to see more details on what happened to the Weston Student - it appears that the assumption is that she would do fine. BTW, this is middle-class vs upper-class. I think that things are a lot harder if you drop to lower-class.</p>