Some advice/perspective for international students

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>We are not internationals but we live overseas and my son has many friends who applied as internationals over the last few years. The results are less predictable than for US nationals, and even then the Ivy/MIT/Stanford results for US nationals are not so predictable anyways. As an international, unless you are attending a school with GC who really understand US admissions, you are obviously at a disadvantage in the whole process...</p>

<p>One of my son's international friends was accepted to all 8 U.S. schools he applied to. No financial need, and he applied to schools with more moderate acceptance profiles (befitting his profile). Last year another was accepted nearly everywhere, including Yale and Pomona, with extraordinarily excellent credentials, but then was WL at other places (surely due to applying for financial aid) which are less selective...you never know. </p>

<p>If it is going to cost you a lot of money to go to school in the US, then you have to decide if it is worth it to you...schools are not cheap and you may well decide that you would rather go to a fine U in your home country than a less well known U in the US...and then try for the US again for grad school. </p>

<p>When we were looking at schools we saw large numbers of internationals in some pretty surprising locations- Franklin and Marshall and Grinnell, for example. I think that there are many fine US schools which love the added something internationals bring, and are willing to pay you to attend, but you might have to look past the ultra-competitive schools if what you value most is the US college experience. </p>

<p>AS for the inflating EC's issue, just because some do it, doesn't make it right. Those people lack integrity, which is a slippery slope in life.</p>

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<p>ya when it comes to reccos and all, it depends a lot on teachers....the girl swere certainly surprised when they saw the stuff made up for them and one of them was not even applying anywhere, it was juz a normal sch testimonial!!</p>

<p>i am truly curious, lookin at the impressive ECs kids in US have plus amazin grades, is it tt the studies there are slightly easier (no offence, i am juz wonderin) cos most intl student will have some olympiad or somethign as hook, not tonnes and tonnes of Ecs... in singapore, it is almost impossible to ace all ur subjects AND still be in a few competitions AND be chairman/committee executive for 5 diff Ecs.... but i am sure there are geniuses here too who can do that... :o</p>

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<p>I recently read an article on these korean kids going to elite colleges and some of the stuff they do is insane. For example, there are specific "volunteer" trips to third world countries JUST so that these kids can rack up some volunteer hours. Also, its not uncommon for rich parents to spend 30k on college counselling (i know these types of services exist in the us as well) to refine their application. </p>

<p>I have a friend who's going to the same SAT school as some korean girl who got into like 8 elite colleges (Yale Princeton etc) 2 years ago, and the teachers at the school say that she was NOTHING like what her application would have suggested to colleges. Her parents even coerced teachers financially to encourage them to write favourable recommendations.</p>

<p>Neha1~
I (arrogantly) thought that my hook would be my academic achievement. I was very highly ranked nationally (top 0.1% of school leavers) like Eos here, and thought that that would be enough to get me into a few Ivies. However, now I realise I was just a fish in the small pond. Even being in the top 0.1% of school leavers nationwide means that there are ~120 students IN MY COUNTRY ALONE that have done as well or better than I have. Hell, Harvard admits ~120 international students from ALL OVER THE WORLD lol.</p>

<p>Whatever doesn't kill me will make me stronger (as the cliche goes ^^) and I can honestly say that through this experience, I was very humbled and it has given me the motivation to try harder in the United States. This process was an "eye-opening" process and I hope you all feel the same way. After all, we can all go to excellent graduate schools :P.</p>

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<p>So this means - in a nutshell- that those who still have a shot at applying this year should really invest a lot in their teacher's recs.</p>

<p>Sad, sad world we live in :D.</p>

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<p>International applicant pool is extremely competitive, and asking for financial aid will decrease the acceptance rate at any institution EVEN if the school is not need-aware (but, not necessarily need-blind).</p>

<p>Only way to get a good handful of thick envelopes is applying to a wide range of schools. Obviously, applying to HYPSMC exclusively is not a good battle plan. Lesser known universities (top 30 - 60) and a lot of LACs do not get as much international applicants, so the odds of being accepted(assuming that the applicant's credentials are superb, exceeding the norm at the institution), are relatively high. Those schools may not sound so impressive to the folks back in your motherland, but it's better than not getting a single acceptance letter. </p>

<p>Yes, being an international sucks.</p>

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<p>"Yes, being an international sucks."</p>

<p>gosh, it sucks like no other!<br>
lol, i am still a bit bitter over my 9 rejections and 1 waitlist these past couple weeks.
it really sucks when some of your classmates (US citizens) have lower stats than you, do not do as much as you, just aren't as qualified as you get admitted into the same schools you got rejected from.
oh well, it's life.<br>
i've moved on and have been looking forward to the college options that i do have, which are not bad at all.</p>

27

<p>Does one's geographic location really matter in college application?
Not the place one was born, but where one lives and goes to school
How important is this factor?
Let's say some international student applies from Northern Marianas Islands(if anybody knows where that place is) compared to another who applies from Japan or Korea??</p>

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<p>anything that helps the colleges claim diversity</p>

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<p>well they consider the type of opportunities available in ur area to the best of thier knowledge and how u utilise...
i was judges with respect to indina and singapore :( :(
but itz my fault i nvr took advantage.... so it does kinda play a role...</p>

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<p>"Diversity" is overrated. All the top colleges will get enough applicants from all over the world, so it boils down to who can PAY FULL TUITION. That's why international applicants with financial needs get screwed over even with mind-blowing credentials.</p>

31

<p>i asked this admissions guy if New Zealand had a small number of applicants.. and well.. look at nz, it's so fuc kng small and he said, although it's not as huge as india/korea,etc.. but a vast majority of people apply from the smallest countries and it won't be a 'hook' to be from a 'small' country because many ppl apply from there too.
I went to our SAT testing centre and I saw atleast 100 people - and that's only in auckland (but the largest centre)! There must be about 300 ppl applying from here in total! And these people were wealthy, gucci, louise vuitton wearing, rich kids who say - "oh no, i got 97% . i need to reset the test!"</p>

<p>Overall, you should not think that you have a good chance of admissions because MANY people can pay full tution out of their pocket.
I know.. very scary..</p>

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<p>"All the top colleges will get enough applicants from all over the world"</p>

<p>I don't think from Northern Mariana Islands (except for Guam)</p>

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<p>This fall i'm not going anywhere, being waitlist by fin aid:), and rejected almost everywhere:D
I intend to apply again this winter, but some guys said that it's fine for intl's students to take 1 gap year, but 2 gap years would be terrible - somewhat they meant Visa things...
Any one who knows anything might tell me, thanks for your help, I'm so confused!
Ofcourse I keep working on my ECs and make it sound as deep as possible..</p>

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<p>It doesn't matter if the dude is from Northern Mariana Islands or Herzegovina. My point is that top colleges will get a good mix of students with geographical, racial, religious, financial, and educational diversity. So, such minor detail is trivial when another international applicant can pay full tuition.</p>

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<p>I found myself rather suprised after reading through this thread. It was, and still is, my general impression that being an international student greatly INCREASED your chances of admission to competitive US colleges. Not decreased, which seems to be the general idea in this thread. I just got admittet into Yale, while getting on the waitinglist of Harvard. (I too only found it worth pursuing the very best, as education in Denmark where i am from is already first rate and more importantly - FREE) Even though i consider myself a strong candidate, and wrote a good application, i'm sure many amaricans equals my abilities on paper, while my nationality made me more attractive in the eyes of the admissionsofficers.</p>

<p>First of all, being an international student whose first language isn't english, and isn't used to multiplechoice testing, i'm fairly confident that the significance of outstanding SAT scores decreases. I scored a mere 640 math and 630 verbal, and still i made it into Yale - even though more than 10.000 applicants had scores from 700-780. </p>

<p>Furthermore, eventhough I do well in school i'm not nearly academically gifted enough to earn acceptance at an ivy. While danish schools by principle do not rank students, I would probably be in the lower end of the top 10% if they did. </p>

<p>So on what basis did i get in? well, my extracurriculars are pretty strong, as i'm a nationalteam rower (but in a small country, mind you!) and president of the student council. I wrote some good, and very personal essays, and got nice teacher recommendations, But I believe I was also the only applicant from my country, and i'm sure that the universities quest for diversity have helped me gain admission. </p>

<p>Each year the ivies get thousands and thousands of applications from extrordinarily gifted people. It would be easy for admissions officers to just pick the ones with the best grades, or most extensive extracurriculars - but in creating the best possible learning environtment, diversity plays the central part. A school needs to have close to a 50/50 male/female distribution, a wealth of minorities, and people of different backgrunds. Therefore the number of internationals on a specific school is crucial not only in terms of looking good in its recruiting efforts, but also is in the effort to maintain a stimulating learning environment - to get the best out of the best so to speak. </p>

<p>My point is, do not underestimate the significance of your nationality - it might just be the "hook" that gets you through the gap!</p>

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<p>I might ad that i also will receive substantial financial aid. And i do not believe that financial aid influenced the admissions decission. but of course, not all universities have need-blind admissions procedures.</p>

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<p>"So on what basis did i get in? well, my extracurriculars are pretty strong, as i'm a nationalteam rower (but in a small country, mind you!) and president of the student council. I wrote some good, and very personal essays, and got nice teacher recommendations, But I believe I was also the only applicant from my country, and i'm sure that the universities quest for diversity have helped me gain admission."</p>

<p>It does not matter that you are from a small country, you still had the "national rower" attribute going for you.
And yes, I think if you are an international student from Denmark or from Western Europe your nationality can be an advantage. Why? Because comparatively much fewer people apply from your country than from let's say India, China or Bulgaria. The admission committee people will value the fact that you come from Denmark positively, because you can bring the name of another country to their list of admits. If you came from, say, Romania, there would be other a hundred people (there were!) applying to Harvard, most with mind-gobbling credentials. The difference between you and most of us here? Even though we all asked for FA, you are a "rara avis". Most of the abilitated young people in Denmark go to university in their country, or in the EU. You would feel how disadvantageous it is to be an international if many other smart people in Denmark decided to apply to say, Yale. </p>

<p>Just a statistic for you: Harvard RD admit rate:6%
This year 100 applied from Romania, 2 were admitted, that's an admission rate of 2%. Which means that, on average, one is 200% more likely to get into Harvard if they're American.</p>

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<p>Where did you get 6%? Harvard admited 2,074 of 22,796 for Class of 2009 (<a href="http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2005/03/31-admissions.html)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2005/03/31-admissions.html)&lt;/a>. That's 9.1%. If you're trying to say that 6% is the admit rate for international, you must be a prophet; they NEVER release international applicant acceptance rate.</p>

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<p>Well, I'm no prophet and I was wrong - that seems to have been the RD admission rate not the total admission rate. But actually this proves my point even better - the Romanian admit rate I know of for sure!</p>

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<p>So it appears that : if you are an international with decent stats and almost nobody applies from your country, you have a great advantage. But if many apply from your country, all with excellent credentials, then you are at a huge disadvantage.</p>

<p>supergeniet, I understand that your impression is that being an international does increase your chances of admissions. But look at me. I'm from Mexico, my SATs are 670M/660V (slightly higher than yours) I'm in the top 2% of my school, and I'm number one exclusively for the IB program. I have predicted 44 points out of 45 for the IB. I won a national creative writing contest. I honestly think that, academically, I'm among the best in my country. Like you, my EC's are strong (yours are probably a little better), my essays were personal and hopefully good, and my recommendations were excellent. But I didn't got into Yale. So, in my eyes, being an international is in no way an advantage. It would be interesting, though, to se ehow many people from Mexico applied, because I have no idea, and that statistic may help prove/disprove the initial hypothesis.</p>