Some advice/perspective for international students

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>I've been a member of CC for quite a while now (I'm posting on a new account because I do not wish to be identified), and as an international applicant who's been through the grueling process, I have some advice/thoughts for those who intend to apply.</p>

<p>Firstly, never assume anything. I do not want to come off as arrogant but honestly I thought I'd get into at least a few Ivies. I know no-one is a certainty for any Ivy, but with a 1560/800/800/800, Valedictorian, Top 0.05% of school-leavers nationwide, lots of ECs (state-level recognition in music), School leader etc, I assumed I'd get into a few top schools. My recommendations were very good as well (not "glowing" but a few "best in career" + lots of detailed examples to highlight my personality). Alas come 1st of April I was rejected/waitlisted at all of the 5 Ivy schools I'd applied to. Fortunately I was accepted into the only safety school I had, and thus will be (unhappily) attending there. </p>

<p>Secondly, apply to as many schools as possible, without going overboard. I applied to a total of 6 schools; 5 Ivies and 1 safety school. The gap between the Ivies and the safety school was VERY distant. If I were able to go back 6 months I would have applied to at least a 6 more (schools like NYU, Northwestern, Washington State University etc...). Also, the reason I didn't apply to many schools is because simply put, I couldn't be bothered. As fellow international applicants know, many teachers are unaware of how things work in US applications and thus you feel "apologetic" handing them the vast amounts of forms. That is the reason why I only used the common application form, because I did not want to become a hinderance to the teachers. Again, if I were to go back 8 months I would've done something different.</p>

<p>Lastly, do not leave your application to the last minute! While I was satisfied with the "main" essay for the common application (because I had ample time to revise it), I only had a few days to do the individual essays required by all school supplements. I <em>think</em> this was the primary reason for my rejection, so don't end up like me and get your essays done well before the deadline!</p>

<p>This site has been of great help to me and I hope future international applicants will use it regularly. I will stay on the board and try to assist you through the process, as many have done for me last year.</p>

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<p>That is good advice. Stick to the basic principles. Apply to at least two reaches, two safeties, and two matches. No school in the top 25 is an absolute sure thing. If you have a disparity between test scores and GPA, use the lower of the two to determine your safety schools. "Eos," I hope one of your waitlisted schools picks you out. Maybe you should send them a "what I learned" essay.</p>

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<p>hmm eos u seem to be coping well with the ivy rejections...i could use a little guidance... i applied to mit harv n yale to be excepted in none.. i never made other applications because i thought if i didnot get into the best ones there was no point going abroad...but having been rejected i am tempted to apply again next fall..is it a wise step? wat if i go into watevr college id be going into here in my country n continue the application process simultaneously n aapply to more colleges n the same ones ovr again?</p>

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<p>I concurr with eos. Honestly, I think I had the stats to get into Harvard or Princeton but did not. Never assume!
About the application part, I applied to 15 colleges, 4 out of which accepted me with FinAid. That is with a 1580 SAT, international ECs and other stuff. So, everyone should be aware of the competition. I am saying this because I know someone who thought so highly of themselves and applied only to Ivies, took (dear :P) Amherst as a safety-school and was rejected everywhere. Also be very careful about ED. One should always factor in the potentially disastrous psychological consequences of a deferral/rejection and apply only if they are ready for it.
About applying from college in your country. Well, you have 3 alternatives:
1. Going to college in own country, applying as a transfer:
Pros: no credit lost, no "lost years", you still are enrolled somewhere in case of failure
Cons: the competition is like 10 times more intense
2. Going to college in own country, applying as freshman:
Pros: "normal" competition, still enrolled somewhere in case of failure
Cons: some colleges and unis will not accept your application as a freshman (ex. Wesleyan, but I am sure there are many others), the year you have done in your country becomes redundant in case of admission.
3. Taking a gap year and applying as a freshman (my personal choice)
Pros: everyone accepts application, the gap year can stregthen the application, also you can have some fun between high-school and college
Cons: in case of failure, still have to get into university in own country, could be very hard to pull together</p>

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<p>i agree 200%...</p>

<p>luckily tho I applied to NYU and got accepted (tho rejected/waitlisted by all the ivies i'd applied to) and am pretty content with going to NYU.</p>

<p>pink~</p>

<p>If I were you I'd go to the university in your own country, then apply as transfer or apply for a graduate course in the united states. That's what I would have done if I were rejected by nyu.</p>

<p>Anyways, best of luck to all of us!</p>

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<p>great insights eos...I am sure that all applicants know this...but for next batch...applying for financial aid will scr ew your chances big time...(except for HYPM)...i know tons and tons of international students on cc who could have been amongst the top 5% of the applicant pool, but got rejected letter because of financial aid...</p>

<p>summary: if you applying for fin aid...odds are against you...</p>

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<p>Actually, if you are applying for FinAid, even at a lesser known/ranked uni, such as Brandeis or Sewanee, you are NOT competing with the Americans who might be 200 SAT points below you, on average. You are competing, for a very limited number of spots (I think it<code>s 2 at Sewanee) with a lot of very well-qualified internationals like yourself. Don</code>t try to hard to find an university "just for yourself", so you could be the only international applicant;this cannot be the case - if they are giving away scholarship/finaid money, people have already heard. Usually, the lower you go down the rankings, the fewer the spots, although there are some notable exceptions.
And another thing, the safest schools for now would be International University Bremen and International University Germany or simmilar schools based on American systems from other countries, although I am sure competition will get really intense there in a few years as well.</p>

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<p>For me, i only applied to Cornell, Princeton, MIT, and Harvard.. the reason why i applied to only these schools was because my safeties were in other countries (like in Canada and particularly Australia whereby you could enter if you meet certain grades)... Thankfully i got into Cornell but i still might not attend if the financial aid is not attractive enough (my father would not spend 40 000 nor even 30 000 a year... 20 000 a year is the maximum he can give.)</p>

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<p>And many schools that are as respected and as good as the ivies are not quite as selective. Those include schools like Johns Hopkins (30%-45% acceptance rate), Northwestern (30%-40% acceptance rate), the University of Chicago (40%-50% acceptance rate) and the university of Michigan-Ann Arbor (30%-50% acceptance rate for internationals). Ivies have acceptance rates that hover in the 10%-25%.</p>

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<p>Alexandre, sorry but JHU is really selective in terms of aid. I got accepted but got no aid:( ( could pay only 20000 )</p>

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<p>Nomad, I was not saying it is easy to get financial aid at those schools...I was merely saying it was easier to get accepted into them.</p>

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<p>It's easier to get accepted if you don't apply for aid, that is true</p>

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<p>Writing research papers and doing very good projects would help a lot in admission? What else can we do to enhance our chances?</p>

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<p>pink: one of the main reaosns i only applied to 3 top schools(and rejected by all) is same as yours.....such ex edu, wats the pt if not in the best, might as well stay in own country.... plus i did not apply to matches or safety cos those sch cant give fin aid to intl and i cant afford to go on own... knwoin how i had 'wisely' spent my 2 yrs in jc, there is no way i will ever get a scholrship to study abroad...hence it seemed pointless....</p>

<p>and i have learnt a lot of things abt the process...i totally agree that most teachers here do not know much abt recs n all... i read my testimonial and was soooo ****ed...all my teacher did was write out in full sentences the pts i gave him abt my Ecs and other activities...cos he asked all of us to list them down for him... i was so upset tt he did not write nicely anythihg at all (trust me i am not any troube maker or so, he juz nvr rites glorifyin or pleasin stuff for anyone).... on the other hand my friend in other class, her teacher made up stuff abt her she did not even do and totally glorified her....for another girl he wrote how she is school's cheerleading capt and blah when there is no fcukin cheerlidin aquad in the sch!!!!!!!! :mad:</p>

<p>of course i dun blame my rejection on my teacher, i wasted my life but showin how it cane be for us intl, specially in countries like india, s'pore, china and all where uni entrance is solely on academic grades....</p>

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<p>"on the other hand my friend in other class, her teacher made up stuff abt her she did not even do and totally glorified her....for another girl he wrote how she is school's cheerleading capt and blah when there is no fcukin cheerlidin aquad in the sch!!!!!!!!"</p>

<p>Quick question: Judging neha1's last post, I'd say that the teacher recs are another key factor. But what really strikes me as strange is the fact that the teachers can put inaccurate information about their student's ECs into their recs (such as the cheerleading squad). Aren't the universities going to check up on that? Or are they simply going to believe everything that they are being told by the faculty?</p>

<p>If that's the case, I should start buying my teachers dinner and really suck it up to them ;)</p>

<p>But seriously: I don't really think it's fair to the kids who have strong ECs and put a lot of effort into them - especially because I consider myself one of those students who actually DOES work hard, and I most certainly don't want some underqualified teacher's pet to take up a spot, a honest and hardworking student would've deserved.</p>

<hr>

<p>And Eos? Where are you from? Because another factor that might've cost you the (in my opinon) well-deserved admission, is the country you're applying from. Internationals from Asia for example are competing against a larger crowd of applicatns from their area, as Belgian, Italian or Polish applicatns are. </p>

<p>Nevertheless I wish you all the best and hope that you will have the time of your life at your college!</p>

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<p>This is a quote from American University's web page:</p>

<p>All admitted freshman and transfer students, regardless of nationality, are considered for academic/merit scholarships for which they are eligible. In general, admitted students awarded scholarships have excellent academic credentials and exhibit exceptional leadership skills. </p>

<p>Any student who has a chance at being admitted to a top 25 US school is going to be in the running for a major scholarship at a school like AU and there are lots more of them just like AU. If you only want to come to the States if you get into a top tier school that everyone in the world will recognize the name, that is your decision, but don't blame it on financing not being available. If you havent applied to second tier schools interested in building their international reputation by giving out scholarships, you don't know what choices are out there for you.</p>

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<p>eos,</p>

<p>It really saddens me that you did not get into any of the Ivy League schools you applied too. Your stats make you more than qualified to go there. I'm an international applicant from Mexico, and my motto when applying was, like some have already mentioned, "either go to the BEST OF THE BEST schools in the US, or do not go at all." So I applied to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, and Penn. Results: I only got into Penn. My SAT scores are much lower than yours, but I still considered myself an appealing applicant. I really hoped that I was going to get into at least 2 of those 5 schoools. Now I'm very grateful with Penn, since apparently they are the only ones who believed in me (I haven't hear from Pton, but I know I didn't got in since I haven't received anything).</p>

<p>You are totally right about recommendations. I felt so bad when I gave about 7 forms to 3 of my teacher. They were not used to the forms, they knew nothing about the US application system, and they did tell me "this is too much." They took it too seriously. Moreover, even though I'm DEFINITELY the strongest student from my school academically speaking, my teachers hardly even checked a "top few of my career" or "excellent" rating. I was impressed. I get along very well with teachers, I show them I work hard, I get top grades in their classes, and they thought I was "good", even though I'm the only person who has actually worked and COMPLETED an application to an Ivy School in this entire generation, and probably the only one who has ever been accepted to an Ivy League from my school's history. The problem is that my teacher do not have an idea of what the Ivy League is. They have no idea how competitive it is. They thought I would be a top applicant witht the letters of recommendation they wrote, even though they were average or even below average. I thought: "How many teachers simply check the 'top in my career' for their students without hesitaion?" My teachers just did not know how to make a successful recommendation for an Ivy League applicant. When they ask me, "how did your applications went", I will think, "not as I would've wanted, partly thanks to you". Sad but true.</p>

<p>The following is, kind of, the moral of the story: BS. Yes, BS. Because that's what many succesful applicants do. I could've built a biblical list of EC's, like many people seem to do. "Founder of the [insert random name here] club." Sure, I can also found a club. Everyone cans. I saw the list of EC's of a person I know who got into MIT. It was pure BS. It seems that honest applicants are the ones who get hurt, even if universities admit otherwise.</p>

<p>All in all, I'm happy I applied. Why? Because I did learn things. I wouldn't mind getting my applications' fees back (except for Penn's), though. I had no support whatsoever for my applications, and I'm happy I was succesful in completing them and sennding them.</p>

<p>I know I'm just rambling, but I had to let this out someday.</p>

<p>Anyway, may I know which schools you applied too, or at least where are you from?</p>

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<p>well no system is perfect and life is nvr fair.... we can either try again next yr with all the knowledge we have now, or do well in our own country, try grad sch....plus wat we have learnt will be gd for our juniors atleast....</p>

<p>seriosuly, i learnt prac nothing from the rare admission talks from my sch...moreover the uk talk, they lean on discouraging as many hopeful applicants from applyin.... atleats tt's how my frenz and i felt... :o
and i was stupid/dumb/idiotic to listen to them and now i regret not applyin uk at all, atleats tryin..... :(</p>

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<p>yeah. I mean with my crappy stats I got into Imperial, Southampton (for CS, its no. 1), Warwick, York (accepted in 1 week), and Lancaster. Im pretty sure that if you try next year Neha, ud probably make it Ox or Camb :)</p>

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<p>haha..thnx for the encouragement callthecops, perhaps i will try next yr :)</p>