Some Guidance For The Parents of Juniors (class of 2013)

Parent Cafe
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<p>With application basically done and in for the class of 2012, perhaps we can provide guidance for the parents who will face this for the class of 2013. Most of us have learned things in the process to get our kids to this point. What have you learned that may be helpful?</p>

<p>Below are some of the points I think are useful to consider, remembering that every situation is a little bit different, I am sure you can add more:</p>

<li><p>Start getting ready early the process is getting more competitive each year. Do your homework on the various school and programs. I have been surprised how far behind the power curve some people have gotten. In the end it has cost the student applicant opportunities. For example, some schools with rolling admissions get tougher to get in as the year goes on and slots get filled. Apply early it will make your student’s senior year better. You won’t be doing applications over Thanksgiving break. Rushing is likely to create the errors we see people report in apps on cc. The same is true if for your RD apps. Again we know a lot of folks who got caught up in the changes in apps at certain schools like Yale. They assumed they would make it, then did not and had to start a rush to get their RD apps in.</p></li>
<li><p>Consider visiting colleges during this coming Spring Break. Then filling in the rest of your visits during the early summer if possible. This lets the student sort through his/her dislikes early. You can then visit again if it is a tie between a couple of schools, including overnights. We found that some students could be happy anywhere, others much more picky. One individual we knew said after campus visits they could not be at Harvard, Cornell, Columbia, Duke, or Penn – just did not like the “feel of the campuses” and did not apply to any of these. </p></li>
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<p>a. For athletes this can be even more important. If you have some idea before recruiting season, you will know which coaches to talk to. Often the NCAA only allows recruiting visits in the fall of the senior year. The trips take time and can interfere with school work and simply filling out the applications, so you are better off finding out early if there are places you are not interested in. Finally, coaches want to get things sewed up early for a number of reasons. For DIV 1 athletes do the NCAA Clearing House when school is out at the end of the junior year (it may vary by sport). For those planning to play in other Divisions need to check for the rules relative to the division. Unfortunately, many sports are covered by the NCAA in the “Other Sports” category, which often makes things less clear.</p>

<li> Parents have students face the SAT’s and take them early so it can be retaken if needed. We have see students sweating out scores because they were told they were not high enough for xyz U, hence have ended up taking them late in the fall, further delaying things. While there are different thoughts on this, I suggest getting the experience before the junior year. We saw too many kids at my D’s school who did not take them, started with the PSAT for national merit and panicked due to the pressure resulting in low scores. This set up an expectation of future failure which often resulted in poor SAT results. There is a thread on the issue of SAT course versus self study guides. I think it depends on the student. But you should look at the thread.</li>
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<p>a.Parents don’t obsess about scores. Look at the acceptance threads for the various colleges. Past a certain range it does not seem to matter, it is the grades and EC’s that will determine the final outcome. I reported elsewhere that I had seen an article in a local magazine regarding SAT Courses where it was reported that a mother paid $5,000 for the course and the student did not get a 2400, so she paid a second $5,000 to do it again – the person got the 2400 and to this point has not apparently fared better than others at getting in to colleges. Make sure there the student shows passion (this theme keeps coming up) versus volume in something.</p>

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<p>My advice is probably exactly the opposite. Let our child enjoy his life at high school, let them study and focus on their favourite ECs, don’t turn HS into preparation to college only. They will not be that age again. Also, not ll kids are marathon runners and you do not want them hating all this college thing by Thanksgiving, when it really comes to applying. With that said, start with things that all schools will need, but postpone getting into app process full scale.

  1. SATs are a good starting point, specially subject SATs. Take them as part of AP course (almost a guarantee of a 750+ score if our child gets a 5 on AP, an no sweat). If you start with the first APs as a sophomore, you will have thre perfect subject tests by the end of junior year.
  2. Take SAT reasonong as a junior (say in Jan or in March). You will need it for any college.
  3. But don’t rush with college visits and choices. Your child may change his mind on the major. And his stats are a black box till the end of his junior year. Only then you can estimate what are his reaches and where matches start. You can visit 8 Ivy campuses but without Ivy-level stats you will need another round visits in second-tier schools.
  4. Summer is a good time to start visits and to make the first (longer) list. What is also good for summer is to think about personal statement Again, all schools will need it. Written in summer it will make SCEA relatively simple and doable during the Thanksgiving weekend (my DD did’t get to it, unortunately, and this is what complicated things a lot).<br>
  5. But then - do not procrastinate!!!</p>
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<p>I think this is a good start, the more different views and strategies, the more ideas for parents to consider. There is no one best way to do this.</p>

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<p>Thanks for starting this thread. I came to CC this past summer when my DDs had just finished their sophomore year in high school. I was panicked with what I though would be the pressures of Junior year. As it turned out CC, and threads like this have reassured me that I could relax a bit. It will hit the fan soon enough. Eventhough my girls are just half way through their Jr. year I think I may have some useful stuff to add:</p>

<p>One of the variables that may affect when you start is proximity to a college dense area. If you are like us and live in a geographically remote area with a distance of 9 hours + from quality LACs than you may have to start earlier with the visits if you need them. We are working it out by spreading them out over summers, spring break and a couple of college days Jr and Sr. years. The trips are always combined with some other fun activity and are looooooowww stress.</p>

<p>Also, remember that you don’t have to visit every school on your kids’ list and visiting after acceptance is fine. Unless you know that the school really values a visit as a way of showing interest and/or the campus is considered a reach for your student, wait until it’s closer to decision time to decide if it is neccessary.</p>

<p>It is OK to suggest a school to your student and you can even schedule a visit if you are in the neighborhood but the surest way to get a teen to refuse to apply to a specific school is to talk about it too much. </p>

<p>Don’t expect them to like what you like. We stopped off at Cal Lutheran for a bite to eat and to look around. Even though it was lovely my DDs were only interested at looking around while on the path between the car and the cafe. We were there maybe 25 minutes.</p>

<p>Don’t underestimate your ability to afford a private education. I was shell shocked after our first info session when I heard what it was going to cost at universityy X but my husband said “once they accept you they really do what they can to help you get there.” I have found this to be true for friends and it has been reinforced by the GCs at our hs. If your child feels that the smaller more intimate learning environment offered by an LAC is what they want don’t automatically dismiss it as too costly. I have a friend whose child is receiving a $40,000 education for less than it would have cost him to attend a UC campus as a resident.</p>

<p>That being said, make sure your child has a plan “B” that they would be happy with. Financial safeties are as important as academic ones.</p>

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<p>Just from what I’m observing with some very stressed friends right now I think the best advice is to build your list from the ground up. Find safeties that you honestly can live with, preferably with rolling admission or early notification (not EA or ED) and get those applications in ASAP. I am just amazed by the number of students who applied ED or EA at reaches with no other applications submitted. They then had to face finals week and a huge amount of work in submitting quickly to other schools, all while trying to process a big disappoingment over rejections or deferrals. I’m also amazed by the lack of understanding among many students and their parents of how competitive the landscape is. Study the score ranges, acceptance rates, gpa ranges of schools. Understand the odds. I know other moms who refer to schools like Duke as safeties! Crazy!</p>

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<p>use some of the various FA calculators and have the talk with your kids now about how much you are willing to pay/borrow for their education. </p>

<p>make sure that your child has at least one true safety (a school that if admitted s/he will be happy to attend and is a financially feasible option for your family).</p>

<p>Don’t let your kids get invested in a school that you know that you are not willing to pay for.</p>

<p>Do your homework if you know that your child will need merit money to attend college.</p>

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<p>College is getting less competitive all the time - the number of new slots has expanded far faster than the number of applicants. </p>

<p>Allow the student to get outside the classroom, and outside the school, and find mentors in the community, and get a real sense of what yanks her/his chain.</p>

<p>If hoping to attend a prestige school, it’s time to start writing those million dollar checks - single best thing you can do to increase admissions odds, short of backdating them for the past 50 years.</p>

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<p>“College is getting less competitive all the time - the number of new slots has expanded far faster than the number of applicants.”</p>

<p>What? The news is saying just the opposite. It may be near the peak, but there is a higher percentage of high school grads applying to college than ever.</p>

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<p>Agree with kittymom – I just finished reading a newspaper article that said exactly that.</p>

<p>Based on having done the “college thing” once w/ DD, and gearing up now for DS, my most important piece of advice is to know that there is more than 1 college where your child can/will be happy. If you, as parents know that, you can help your child know it, too. We lived a very intense/pressure cooker area when DD was applying to college, and found it was very easy to get sucked into competiveness of the whole process – and the idea that if your child didn’t end up at the best of the best, then you/your child must be a failure. We have since moved, and I’m truly enjoying the less frenetic/less intense pace of life here. I know DS will find a school that fits him – which is not that same as saying he/we can be totally laid back about the whole process.</p>

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<p>“What? The news is saying just the opposite. It may be near the peak, but there is a higher percentage of high school grads applying to college than ever.”</p>

<p>The so-called “news” is dead wrong. The so-called top 150-200 colleges and universities have more applicants, mainly because people are applying to more colleges. The other 1400 or so colleges and universities are begging for students - many will take virtually any warm body who will pay the bill. Over the next 5-10 years, you will see dozens of them go out of business for lack of students.</p>

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<p>mini – what have you been reading that others of us don’t know about? I haven’t seen anything stating all those 1400+ colleges are begging for students. Plus, the article I just read in yesterday’s NY Times quoted applications stats for a few schools that I wouldn’t necessarily put in the top 150 - 200.</p>

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<p>My d’s mail box (she is far from a top student) is filled with offers of admission from dozens of schools that promise she doesn’t have to submit an essay, or an SAT score, or even a recommendation, and she will hear from them within two weeks. I imagine that, if they knew she even consider them, they’d come to our house and write it for her. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, the newsletter of college professionals runs regular articles on the “mad scramble” of colleges trying to reposition themselves to attract more applicants/students because current levels aren’t sustainable. Virtually every state has expanded its network of non-flagship four-year and two-year colleges to ensure a place for virtually every warm body that applies. The New York Times cares about these folks not one whit.</p>

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<p>Actually, I’ll take this a couple of steps further. Do NOT let your child apply to any school that you will not let them attend…for ANY reason. This means that finances, distance, size, type of school…everything…is considered BEFORE the applications are sent. I’ve read too many threads and spoken to too many heartbroken students who got accepted to schools, and AFTER the acceptance the parents said…too much money, or too far away…or too big..or or or. These decisions should be made before the applications are sent.</p>

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<p>^^Sometimes you don’t know if it is too much money until acceptance and fa offers come in. If the school gives good merit and you believe yourself to be a contender, go ahead and apply with the caution that your parents can only pay what they can pay.</p>

<p>I totally agree though that the other criteria expressed by thumper need to be established first.</p>

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<p>Help the student use the application process as a learning experience in itself.</p>

<p>There are many things to learn:
1)How to be organized
2)How to prioritize
3)How to do cost/benefit analysis
4)How to balance logic and intuition.</p>

<p>There is also a lot the student can learn about him/herself, ie likes/dislikes, goals, strengths, weaknesses, areas of true interest, ideas about what kind of a person he/she wants to become.</p>

<p>Enjoy the college visits and time spent with your child. It’s not going to come again.</p>

<p>Research, research, research. I was amazed at how much more information I had than most of the parents and how useful this information was to ensuring a good outcome for my kids and other kids I ended up counseling.
For instance: I saw on the Williams website that Williams is seriously looking for musicians (this is on the music department’s site.) I only knew this from extensive site navigation. I also learned that although the application was due 1/1, the music supplement was due 12/20. Good to know. My son attends…Williams! His first choice.</p>

<p>Be open to possibilities you hadn’t considered, both academically and financially. There are so many ways to get to the goal of a good education: state funded schools, merit aid, need based aid.</p>

<p>Use common sense. I looked at UChi’s 40% acceptance rate and encouraged DS to apply EA (non-binding.) It was so cool to go into other applications with an elite college acceptance. He hadn’t considered leaving the east coast but UChi became his second choice. </p>

<p>Oh, sorry, but I ramble and go on too much.</p>

<p>Good luck newbies.</p>

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<p>I wish I had found this site Jr. (or even Soph) year, just to get a feel for the process. I applied to college 37 years ago and grad school 22 years ago, and I don’t remember jumping through as many hoops or the level of competition. My two cents, share this site with others.</p>

<p>Also, complete the Common App in the summer before Sr year, as much as possible. Most of it is just data, but I believe it is possible to get essays completed, for the most part. I think having the essay well on the way before Sept. helped my D not feel overwhelmed.</p>

<p>Know your finances. I agree w/Thumper, apply only to where you know it will be possible to attend.</p>

<p>Don’t get overly caught up in the name or your own alma mater. I encouraged my daughter to apply to mine; she chose not to. Looking back, she made the correct decision…it would not have been a good fit for her. Times have changed from when I attended, and her experience would likely have been much different.</p>

<p>Visit campuses as much a possible.</p>

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<p>I too would suggest low key visits in the Spring to hit a variety of different types of schools. Once your child has an impression of the basic types of schools - big or small, urbarn/suburban/rural, University or LAC - they are interested in then… Seeing a few schools will give them and you a frame of reference to use in comparing schools too. Perhaps they might want to visit relatives or recent graduates of their High School at nearby schools, even if they are not going to go close to home, to get the flavor of the types of schools out there.</p>

<p>Ideally they, though you may have to help, should make a list to explore based on these factors and how students with their their test scores (if available yet and I would sat try the SAT in the Winter or Spring of the Junior year..if not before), GPA, and class rank have done in the past. Use one or more of the big college guidebooks but always verify any data on the schools website directly. Your guidance department should be able to provide past data but I would stick to only the last 3-5 years as it has gotten more competitive for many schools. Certainly they should explore the websites and perhaps read about any schools you plan to visit.</p>

<p>It is critical to “fall in love” with your safety and match schools before falling in love with reach schools. XXX College U, let us say Princeton, Stanford, or Williams for example, are very easy to love and perhaps your State U. less so but your child and you need to be very realistic about where they can get in. Of course, they should pursue their, not your/our dreams, but have a backup plan just in case.</p>

<p>I would only lightly consider financial considerations at this point but certainly a good state school or two should be in the mix. Hopefully they will get accepted to a good spread of schools and you can both worry about costs later on…unfortunately you will probably worry from now on but I think it best they not obsess on this if you can avoid it. Be aware but don’t let it completely override all other factors.</p>

<p>Once you have this probably long list you can sit down and plan how to visit some or all of them over the summer, if not on weekend trips before then. It is more interesting to see colleges when the students are there and that is critical to making final choices but pratically speaking the summer is often the easier time to visit lots of schools. You can go back in the fall to interview or confirm any final choices, especially ED or EA possibilities. I am a big fan of both especially EA as it really helps to have one “in the bag” as soon as possible without committing. Naturally only apply ED to a school that you really love and can afford to go to.</p>

<p>As a side note, I would take SAT II exams in the Spring in same subjects they are taking any AP exams in. The exams are usually close together in time, AP’s during the weekdays and SAT II’s on the weekend during the same weeks. I didn’t think this best at first but now think that this results in the highest overall scores on both sets of exams since they will be studying virtually the same material and taking one helps you on the next a few days later.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>If your child is an athlete, when you decide to visit schools may be directly impacted by their season. And if they play multiple seasons, you will have to start even earlier than most. If your child is a fall sport athlete, visits need to happen before fall of senior year. It’s really not too early to start visiting Presidents Weekend (or week if you have that break) and Spring Break of junior year. If they do a spring sport, some even start visiting during the fall of junior year so as to have some idea of the types of schools they want to pursue. Those would be the urban/suburban/rural, large/small type of considerations. I personally don’t have a problem with summer/out of school visits. If a campus appeals to your student they can certainly go back (financial considerations aside) before making a final decision in the spring of their senior year. If that is the only time you have, make good use of it. Many schools will have students on campus during the summer, even some of their own students! Have you child ask questions like this during the tours and when hanging out in the student center. Do you go here full time? What might I not see now that I would see during the school year? Are the students on campus over the summer representative of the student body at all? Two of my three kids chose schools they initially visited when school (other than summer school) was not in session. </p>

<p>As for SAT IIs. Take them whenever you finish the correspondent course. If you take World History as a sophomore, take the test then…do not wait until you’ve had the AP course. Especially if you think you may not take a more advanced course in the subject before the end of your junior year. In our HS kids take Biology in 9th grade. All students carrying a B or better in the course are advised that if they plan to take the SAT II in Bio to take it in June of that year. AP or equivalent science is generally only available to seniors in our district, so waiting until you’ve had that course would be too late for college admissions. </p>

<p>I also think that if possible having all standardized testing done by the end of the junior year eliminates a lot of stress and anxiety going into the fall. If you can, prepare for the March SAT and you can take it again in June if need be. Then you can take SAT IIs in whatever areas are appropriate in May (close to the AP exams) and be done, especially if you’ve taken SAT IIs in earlier years. DO look at the SAT II requirements (if any) of the schools you are interested in and assume that you will need whatever the maximum number in whatever specific areas are designated so that you will have as many options as possible when application time rolls around. Also check the ACT schedule and see if the style of that test is more reflective of your learning style. Be sure however, to check and see that all the schools you are contemplating will take the ACT in lieu of SAT IIs. Again, you don’t want to be caught unaware as you are applying to your top choice school only to find out that even with your stellar ACT they require some combination of SAT II scores.</p>

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<p>This works beautifully for certain subjects where the AP curriculum and the material covered on the SAT Subject Test are very similar, such as U.S. history.</p>

<p>It does not work at all in subjects where the two curricula have nothing to do with each other, such as math. (The AP test is 100% calculus; the SAT Subject Tests are 0% calculus.)</p>

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<p>Absolutely, that’s why I started with, “As for SAT IIs. Take them whenever you finish the correspondent course.”. The Math SAT IIs should be taken when one has finished the appropriate level of HS math.</p>