Some less satisfying aspects of attending Pomona College

Colleges and Universities A-Z Pomona College
41

I was a molecular bio major (interdisciplinary between chem and bio) who considered both schools.

I don’t have a problem with anyone having an opinion. Totally okay to think Carleton has a stronger STEM program, or chem department, or to prefer Carleton to Pomona. Note I did not challenge the quality of their programs at all. The problem I had was with this remark: " there were several issues re; professors, their ability to conduct research and involve students was limited." This is just totally false. Considering that prospective students come to this forum to do their research, I have the right to call out what is incorrect and misleading. Not one chemistry major would tell you that they had any problems with their professors or in finding engaging research opportunities. It’s considered our strongest STEM major and always in the top 10 most popular ones. The survey responses above show no difference in professor accessibility and teaching between Carleton and Pomona.

But since you’re sparking the discussion, what do you mean ranked ahead of chemistry? In what ranking? I did not know there was such a thing. I googled “Best Colleges for Chemistry” and saw on the very first link that Pomona was ranked #6 nationally on one of them for chemistry. Carleton is #30. I am not going to give any meaning to that ranking, but apparently there’s this clear consensus that Carleton>Pomona for STEM? Where?

Carleton comes out ahead of Pomona for STEM every time, really? So why has Pomona produced more Goldwater, NSF winners, Churchill, Beckman recipients than Carleton in recent years? Carleton is the bigger PhD producer per capita; it is also substantially larger than Pomona. So I find the gap more intriguing. You can’t get those distinctions without preparing your grads well- strong recommendations, research experiences with professors, advanced coursework and preparation for grad school. Again, I wouldn’t give weight to this as Pomona>Carleton, but Pomona has an exceptional STEM program and I’m not quite sure why you see fit to undermine it.

I have the same doubts (and I am allowed to have them) that you have much familiarity with the STEM programs at Pomona, and are instead looking for a way to put the school down just to tout your own (past posts reveal you have a connection to the school). Why is Carleton even relevant to this specific discussion on a Pomona thread?

Let it be clear: I love Carleton. It is one of my favorite LACs. I know how strong their STEM programs are, how great the teaching is, how friendly and caring the students are. I know it gets underrated, and alumni/links have every right to tout its strength. But can we do that standing on our own, lived experience, rather than hearsay, bias, or speculation? A statement like “We toured both, and felt Carleton’s science facilities were better renovated than Pomona” is totally fair. Something like “Carleton is clearly above Pomona when it comes to undergrad teaching in chemistry” requires lived experience as a major in numerous classes, surrounded by numerous professors, at both. Which pretty much no one has.

And I would think that someone from Carleton would especially appreciate that one’s academic background doesn’t immediately confer them credibility as a scholar (or especially a teacher). For what it’s worth, the chemistry profs at Pomona come from good schools- MIT, Harvard, Berkeley, Cambridge, Caltech among them. But the best STEM professor I had at Pomona did her PhD at UCSD.

42

Also, another source- Wall Street Journal evaluated the top 10 schools where “Great Research Meets Great Teaching”.", based on the “number of research papers per faculty member, and a student survey asking about faculty accessibility and opportunities for collaborative learning.” Pomona ranked #3 in the country, right after WPI and Colorado School of Mines. Just saying.

43

My kid’s HS was a feeder to Carleton. Like every school, it has pros and cons. If you think you’ve found a perfect (or even better school than Pomona) there, I have a bridge to sell you. Every single school will have aspects you and you student like and dislike as you get into their actual years of attendance. There is no “Goldilocks” school. Merely trade offs, many of which aren’t apparent until your particular kid is in that particular environment.

44

I just messaged a friend at Carleton (a tour guide there), since I couldn’t find the statistic on their website. He said that his understanding was that approximately half of Carleton students work with a professor in research either during the year, winter break (not a thing at Pomona- kudos to them!), and summer at least once in their time. The Pomona website says 53%. I apologize, @goingaway , for not giving you the space to elaborate some more and dismissing your view so quickly. I was a bit defensive and hasty, since I’ve had mostly positive experiences at Pomona in STEM and have never heard the concerns you raised even mentioned among the STEM community. I would like to take back that and hear what you mean, if you can find the room to forgive me. Thank you. The purpose of this thread was to illuminate on less than positive experiences from Pomona.

Here’s the info he sent me from the manual:

“As you walk down the hallway past the psych comps, talk about Carleton’s emphasis on quantitative reasoning and science. Also, feel free to field questions as to what comps is. All professors are required to do research and many of them hire undergraduate research assistants. Students are active in designing the lab and are often published along with their professors in journals. Student research opportunities are available both for work study and course credit - share personal experience if you have it!”

This is pretty much identical to what Pomona is: STEM majors require a comprehensive project, every professor does research w/ undergrad research teams, many publish and present routinely, and you can get work study and course credit for research. I’m not seeing what’s so different about Carleton (or so especially bad about Pomona). The two surveys I linked seem to support that most Pomona students are very happy with their professors.

45

My kid was at another 5C, but I’ve never heard the complaint that Pomona students lacked research opportunities on campus.

46

@nostalgicwisdom “I apologize, … , for not giving you the space to elaborate some more and dismissing your view so quickly. I was a bit defensive and hasty, … I would like to take back that and hear what you mean, if you can find the room to forgive me. Thank you.” You demonstrate uncommon maturity, reasonableness, and wisdom. It is so incredibly rare to witness a class act such as your apology.

47

The idea that a school choice should be made by splitting hairs over small differences in professors in a single subject area is really missing the forest. Kids should pick the school that feels right to them. Undergraduate majors are often not relevant to the individual’s future profession, especially in an area of study where a higher degree is expected. An LAC education should be broad. Otherwise, just go to Cal Tech.

Regarding STEM majors at Pomona: my daughter’s boyfriend is a senior at Pomona. Double major in math and chemistry. Summer research at NASA, Hopkins, and UCLA. Consulted at NASA in Pasadena on school weekends. Has published several papers in chemistry journals. Going to Cambridge on a full scholarship (provided by Pomona) next year for a Masters in Physics, followed by a PhD program at Stanford (also got into MIT and Cal for their PhD programs). I think he would have done similarly well with different details at any top school.

The idea that choosing one superb LAC over another superb LAC is going to make the difference in one’s career is not accurate. Going to a school you love is what will make the difference in the kid’s life.

1 Like
48

@akiddoc I couldn’t agree more! To me one of the attractions of a school like Pomona is that it is strong across virtually all departments. Most 17 year olds have only a vague sense of what interests them and will happily change their minds once they get to school and explore their options. To me that’s a good thing. So as you say, “splitting hairs over small differences in professors in a single subject area is really missing the forest.”

49

I agree also! I don’t think my D (2017 CS grad) took any chemistry classes. She took a variety of humanities/social science classes, as well as French, Math, and CS. Some of these classes were at other schools, a wonderful opportunity. The final decision for her came down to Pomona or Swarthmore, she chose Pomona for the weather and other happiness factors. A math teacher her first year sought her out to do research for him. Summer after 2nd year she did an REU, with a good internship the following year, and many job offers well before graduation. As far as alumni, she has had contact with previous CS grads and has tried to help out current CS students with advice about her experience (she was a TA and knows many of them). Her friends went a variety of directions, from grad school to jobs to Fulbright study.

50

Just wanted to chime in $0.02 on having a voice, whereas a minority with louder ones seek to blot them out. As a parent, I’m paying upwards of $300K, and for that, I expect/hope for tolerance, a level of decorum and respect, and engagement - noise, debte, alignment, and all. It should not be a societal mirror, but a beacon of fairness, candor and equity. If PC (or any school) isn’t affording, dare I say, facilitating this type of exchange, beyond the great teachers and other bright, young minds, then what is it offereing sans a robust alumni network? Where is the relative value to known entity LACs?

51

As a member of the class of 2016, I agree!

I like how there was a full on debate about STEM and research opportunities at LAC’s… Makes me think back to the the whole science focused thing the OP mentioned. I knew a lot of pre-med, CS and physics students while there. Nice people, very different from myself. I agree that there was a shift in attitude to pre-professional, ‘I need to get every opportunity possible’ in the students while I was there.

I have a distinct memory of an adjunct hydrology professor. She spent two classes going over how to measure rainfall. Hint: you use a beaker and a ruler. She also showed a 20 minute video of a man hiking in the mountains to demonstrate how to measure snowfall. Hint: you use a ruler. After the second week, I (and half the other students) dropped the class.

I haven’t benefited much from the alumni network, but I dropped my geology major and ended up finishing my art degree. With some googling you can probably figure out who I am pretty easily. I’m actually going back to school for advertising. All three of these fields are pretty niche and I didn’t expect many alums to be involved in these fields. If I had wanted to go down the venture capitalist or academia route, I’m sure Pomona would’ve had a better network for me.