Some notes on our decisions

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Rochester
1

<p>Hello everyone. I wanted to provide some statistics and some general comments regarding our admissions decisions, my intent being to provide you with some insight into our applicant pool and the tough decisions that we had to make this year. First and foremost, understand that in no way is the decision that you receive a reflection of your value as a person, or in many cases even a reflection of our belief in your ability to be a successful college student. Many students that I was very excited about were not offered admission.</p>

<p>It is important to remember that our goal as an institution is to enroll students that are best prepared to thrive in their pursuit of a uniquely independent education, specifically in a curriculum that is without restrictions. The term that I use most often is "fit", the quality of which is determined by a wide variety of criteria, including a demonstrated understanding of the University of Rochester. Statistics alone do not guarantee admission, and the graphs that students use on Naviance to gauge their own prospects for admission are rarely the most reliable resource.</p>

<p>That we have deliberately identified "fit" as our top priority means a few things. The profile of some of our waitlisted and denied students is similar to, and in a few cases better than, some of our admitted students. It is important to understand that a student with a 4.0 GPA and a 2400 SAT is not necessarily the best "fit" for Rochester - there are students that fit that description that were not offered a place in the freshman class because we did not believe them to be a strong "fit" for Rochester.</p>

<p>The significant dilemma that we faced this year is related to the number of applications for admission that we received from academically qualified students and the fact that we are admitting a smaller freshmen class than the previous few years. Of the 13,700 applications that we received, an increase of 13% from last year, about 33-34% were offered admission. The average High School GPA among those students, though not official yet, is close to a 3.94, and the SAT about a 2100. These are more competitive numbers than any I have seen in my four years at Rochester.</p>

<p>It has been a particularly difficult year to gain admission to Rochester, and this post is my attempt to illustrate that, if only in the smallest degree. I am more than happy to continue to answer questions on CC, so please send them my way if you'd like.</p>

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<p>As usual great post and thanks for providing this information. I was just curious…1)Why would someone with a 4.0/2400 not be a good fit? (assuming they hadn’t recently been arrested or streaked naked thru the admissions office) 2)What determines a strong fit?
3) Other than the obvious such as GPA/test scores, is there something specific you see on an application that automatically sends it to the reject bin? 4)If you were very excited about a particular prospective student, what are some of the reasons why they wouldnt be offered admission? I find admissions to be one of lifes biggest mysteries! I am just really curious how decisions are actually really made…</p>

3

<p>I’m curious about the process as well. I know two admissions counselors and the “committee” review one’s application, but how exactly does it work? Do the counselors rate the app. from one to ten, or is it just pass/fail?</p>

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<p>Great questions… I’ll start with the process.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>A completed application is reviewed by the first reader, who considers each students merits on an individual and school basis. As a first reader I can recommend that a student be admitted, waitlisted, or denied. First and foremost, I look to see that a student has taken challenging academic coursework and has done well in school. I also look at a number of other criteria, including extracurricular activities, interview write-ups, and letters of recommendation. Personally, my favorite part of the application is the essay, which reveals a lot about the student and helps me to make a more informed recommendation.</p></li>
<li><p>The application and notes of the first reader are given to a second reader. The second reader is not aware of the recommendation of the first reader and must recommend admit, waitlist, deny based on the extent to which an individual student matches institutional goals. Those goals are wide ranging and may include things as specific as: increasing the academic profile, growing the school of engineering, increasing the geographic or cultural diversity on campus, etc. They are not necessarily evaluating a student as a single applicant - they are evaluating them in the context of the large applicant pool.</p></li>
<li><p>Two things can happen in step 3. If the first reader and second reader disagree (i.e. one recommends admit, the other waitlist), the application goes to a committee of at least 3 counselors that re-evaluate the application for admission as a group. This committee makes a third recommendation that goes to the Dean of Enrollment for approval. If the first and second reader agree, it goes to the Dean of Enrollment for approval as well.</p></li>
<li><p>This is where it gets tough. At one point this year we had too many students that we were planning to offer admission to the University of Rochester, a reflection of the qualifications of this year’s applicant pool. Our staff was asked to make specific recommendations regarding the students in our respective territories in order to shape the freshman class and offer admission to an appropriate number of students. The bottom line is we only have room for so many students, so this “shaping” is something that happens every year. We had to do more “shaping” this year than we normally do, and many students that we really liked were students that we ultimately decided we could not offer admission to.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>If nothing else, you can rest assured that your application, or your son/daughter’s application was given full consideration at least three times, sometimes more often than that. You can also rest assured that they were evaluated from an individual and an institutional perspective.</p>

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<p>To get back to the question of fit… I’ve listened to my boss, the Dean of Enrollment, speak to three sets of admitted students this year and I’ll try to paraphrase his comments regarding fit (though I won’t do it justice - he is a dynamic speaker). Also, there is no way to express myself fully without generalizing, but I think this is at least a good start.</p>

<p>One of the defining characteristics of a Rochester student is an obsessive drive towards one or two specific interests. When faced with requirements and when asked to do something that he/she does not want to do, a typical Rochester student is resistant, even defiant, and we like that about them. Our students more closely resemble college professors in that way than they do average college students.</p>

<p>Because of the flexibility of our curriculum and the sense of independence and self-direction that our students must have to navigate that flexibility, we have to evaluate students in a different way. A student may have a lower GPA than some of his/her classmates, but he/she may have one or two strengths that he/she can pursue at Rochester in significant and meaningful ways. In other words, an absolutely brilliant physics student will not be denied the opportunity to pursue physics at Rochester because he/she received B’s in history and english, grades that are probably more a reflection of his/her interest in the subject than they are a reflection of his/her ability.</p>

<p>I won’t speak for everyone, but I myself am sometimes discouraged by students that have elected to take the SAT/ACT four, five, and six times in an effort to get that perfect score. I am more engaged by the student that takes the SAT/ACT once, maybe twice, and then decides that he/she would rather get back to whatever it is he/she is passionate about than continue to study for a standardized exam. Students here don’t obsess over perfect GPA’s and perfect test scores, and I am not looking to admit students that have indicated a tendency to do so in high school either.</p>

<p>Now, that doesn’t mean that a student with a perfect GPA and test score can’t also be a good fit for Rochester (they often are)… a student that has performed very well AND shows an understanding of how the curriculum and the opportunities in research can/will benefit him/her as an undergraduate, is most likely to succeed in our process.</p>

<p>As far as things that a student can do to gaurantee waitlist/deny… Rarely is any one single measure used to justify a waitlist/deny, but I’d say the biggest mistake that students make is to assume that their grades/scores are going to carry them through this process. We want students that understand us and are excited about the possibility of coming to Rochester - students that we feel will thrive here - and when a student submits an application and fails to connect with us in any other way, it can be a turn-off. And yes, streaking naked through the admissions office will not do much to get you admitted, either.</p>

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<p>LOL! Thank you for your explanation, Mike. </p>

<p>And now I know why you and D2 hit it off…she’s a UR student to the “tee”–independent, self-motivated, who pursues her goals determinedly using all the resources she has at hand as well as to seeking out additional resources that aren’t as available. Plus UR could forgive her for not taking that 4th year of Spanish. ('Cuz D2 has many talents, but foreign languages are not among them.)</p>

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<p>The fact that Mike provides so much information direct from admissions says volumes of positive things about UR’s attitudes.</p>

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<p>Reading this makes me feel even better about my decision to go to the U of R</p>

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<p>Thank you for this insightful look into the process!</p>

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<p>Thank you MConklin, that actually made sense. One more thing, to all of the thoughtful people who respond regularly on this board, I want to say thank you. I have learned so much from everyone and really enjoy reading about their own personal experiences. As you all know, college admissions can be stressful…the help you can find on here is priceless.</p>

11

<p>my d was accepted and I appreciate the comments about how the acceptance decisions are made. She is not a 4.0 student, but she is willing to try and test her limits in both academics and outside programs. We are coming up this weekend for the Open House on Saturday. Hopefully by the time this weekend is over all our decisions will be finalized,</p>

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<p>Mconklin, so I mailed the enrollment letter, about what time will the office mail me something back after they get it?</p>

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<p>If I remember correctly, enrolling student packets are usually sent through May and June. Congrats by the way!</p>

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<p>“obsessive drive towards one or two specific interests. When faced with requirements and when asked to do something that he/she does not want to do, a typical Rochester student is resistant, even defiant, and we like that about them”</p>

<p>This is the nugget of gold that made the process of “panning for College” worth it for my D and myself. I have often told my D that “the best results are derived through conflict”. I believe that the best of the best schools encourage the debate. </p>

<p>Innovation is a buzz word that is thrown around corporation today almost like a fountain of youth in some fashion. Innovation is fueled by independent thought, and the resultant ideas are more often than not in complete conflict with the paradigm that exists in the organization. Innovation requires courage of the individual as well as some level of tolerance and “greenhousing” by the organization. Tolerance and encouragement create fertile soil for independent thought, and the quote above from MConklin describes that perfectly. They want students to challenge the status quo, the friction of the debate will hopefully create diamonds from this incoming class of 2015.</p>

<p>On another note, I think the social dialog between the UR reps and the engaged parents and students on this forum would actually make for an interesting research opportunity. I think it has an impact on the students and the parents, and I think it could actually be extended and to a certain extent marketed. I think CC is the “trsuted brand” of social dialog about the college experience, I think the opportunity to conduct online open houses, the asynchronous Q&A, the dialog between people all make UR a little different and special. I work for a very large company that struggles with how to interact with consumers online, I think the right way is the way UR does it, get in, get engaged and just speak truth. It is pretty cool. When I was a kid, admissions was never a person, it was some dusty old office with people that never emerged from the veil of a form letter. I think this forum has allowed UR to walk the walk by not only encouraging the dialog of parents and students, but also supplying the tolerance and courage for the employees to get into the mix as well. That to me is a university with the mindset to tackle the widely connected world that we live in. Pretty cool…
BofD</p>

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<p>Harvard used to say “egg-shaped”: they didn’t want well-rounded students, the ones with lots of stuff on the resume, but egg-shaped ones who had developed interest in an area. UR does a good job with that. You can see it in the kids at school and how much goes on there: kids with interests unite and the environment encourages them to try other interests. I think this a real advantage to a small university because it is large enough to have variety but small enough that scale doesn’t intimidate.</p>

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<p>woke up this morning to my dad holding a big envelope… i’m so excited, there are no words!
after reading the average GPA/SAT of accepted students, I thought my measly 3.15-3.22 meant sure defeat.
but yes, it’s true everyone! UR DOES look at YOU, and not just your stats.</p>

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<p>Congratulations Magnificent! Great post BofD!</p>

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<p>MConklin,</p>

<p>Is that 3.94 GPA weighted or unweighted? It appears there’s some diversity in how schools report that number on the common data set, so I’m curious how U. of Rochester reports it.</p>

19

<p>Thanks, MConklin, for this posting. It was very insightful and right in line with what were we told when we visited this past summer. The process is not formulaic. The personalized acceptance letter was a nice touch and demonstrates the time and effort that went into the selection process from the school’s standpoint. Very impressed!</p>

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<p>Mconklin said 2 things in this thread:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It is important to understand that a student with a 4.0 GPA and a 2400 SAT is not necessarily the best “fit” for Rochester </p></li>
<li><p>The average High School GPA among those students, though not official yet, is close to a 3.94, and the SAT about a 2100.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>IMO there is not a huge difference between 3.94 & 4.0 or 2100 & 2400.</p>

<p>How do students with lower numbers, but better “fit”, fair once they arrive at U of R? </p>

<p>Will a student with a 3.2 GPA be overwhelmed or will they be able to step up to the challenge?</p>

<p>I am curious if there has ben any history in tracking such things.</p>