Some thoughts from a (fairly) new parent

<p>Now that all is said and done for this year’s BS admission process, I would like to put forth some observations. It is my hope that this serves as a springboard for discussion regarding some of the issues. If some of the observations are deemed offensive by some, I apologize in advance, as that was never my intention.</p>

<p>First, to introduce myself, I am a parent of one child going into her fourth year at a HADES school, and another going to another boarding school next year. Prior to my daughter’s application to BS, they were not on my radar. I am a child of lower to middle-middle class parents who attended public schools up to and including secondary school in an inner city. Following that I went to a state school where room, board and tuition were under $2000 a year (and no, it was not in the Stone Age, but was around 30 years ago). I attended professional school and later went back to school for a PhD. Our family values learning, but due to social and monetary factors, boarding school was never felt to be something we could aspire to when I was a child. When my daughter decided to apply to boarding school from our rural private grade school (K – 8), I was not certain how I felt, nor was she. She visited several HADES schools, liked some, disliked others and felt that one was the “mother ship”. She was a late applicant, but had a very good application and was accepted to her first choice. She loves it at the school. My son, with different drives and strengths, went to another BS, not HADES, but academically rigorous and one which will likely be a good fit for him.
The following are my points:</p>

<p>Boarding schools are not for everyone. Not every child has the level of maturity, or the emotional tolerance for separation from their parents at the age of 13 or 14. Not every parent can tolerate letting a child go at that age. While many regard boarding schools as a better alternative to public high schools, they are not always vastly superior to the public option. The costs are prohibitive for many, and not many families can afford to spend upwards of $40,000 a year on boarding school tuition. Financial aid may be available, but only a few schools are “need blind”, and application for financial aid may reduce the availability of an already scarce number of slots.
There are several million children each year going into 9th grade. There are insufficient admissions slots for everyone, or even the relatively small percentage who aspire to boarding school. At the more selective schools (HADES or GLADCHEMMS, to use the acronyms), the admissions process is fiercely competitive, with the selection process appearing to have become more difficult over the past few years. A given child may look at the “city on the hill” with longing, but not be able to compete successfully for a slot at that school. A child may be highly intelligent, and have high SSAT (or even SAT) scores, have outstanding extracurricular activities and write a great essay. However, for reasons completely out of their control (the school already has two soccer playing tuba players who work with autistic children), they are not accepted. In recent years, children with siblings at the school, and parents working part time with admissions committees have not proven to be immune from rejection. The demand for places at these schools is so great now that the schools can be very selective, and truly need you far less than you need them.</p>

<p>This goes to a point with is corollary to the last one. The admissions process may not seem “fair” because with so many highly qualified applicants, there must be some arbitrariness. The applicant’s grades were excellent, but the SSATs were not stellar. The grades and SSATs were stellar, but the extracurriculars were lacking or absent. All of the above were there, but the child was anxious on the interview, and appeared sullen. All of the above were good, but there was another applicant with a relative, able and willing to donate substantial sums to the institution to insure their child’s admission. I know of nothing in life in which everything is “fair”, and what is “fair” to one appears “unfair” to another. I should be astounded to learn that high prestige and high priced academic institutions are the one instance in which all things are “fair”.</p>

<p>Boarding schools are frequently much more academically rigorous than public high schools. While some boarding schools operate at a more leisurely pace, the most rigorous ones require a significant time commitment for learning. They also frequently necessitate a degree of academic aptitude to be able to complete work in a reasonable amount of time. I have known children at public schools doing “A” work, who while attending such boarding schools to struggle, work until midnight just to eke out “B” work. If a child is in such a position, they have, in effect, been taken from an environment in which they excelled, and placed into an environment in which they are no longer the “big fish”. Some children may tolerate this transition and re-positioning within the academic continuum, and some may not. It is no shame, to perform at a “B” average at Andover. The problem, if there is one, is that one is now judged by a different metric, and the child may have difficulty accepting that they are no longer the “smartest” child in the group.</p>

<p>In tandem with the above point is the issue of class ranking and the process of college admissions. I have noted some concern among parents regarding their children’s grades, with much of the concern centering upon class rankings and how this will affect college admissions. It does seem clear that there is a different metric applied by colleges to applicants from the most highly ranked boarding schools. There have also been suggestions that some of these boarding schools have direct lines to elite university admissions offices (see Seamus Khan, Privilege, an interesting book on elite boarding schools, written by a sociology professor at Columbia University who taught for a year at St. Paul’s School). Having gone over Naviance admissions data at some length in association with my daughter’s recent college applications, one can see some patterns emerge. First is that, grade point averages appear to be the parameter with the highest degree of correlation with admissions to universities and colleges. In the scattergrams, there are clearly delineated “boxes” in which the combination of grade averages and SAT scores are associated with few if any admissions to a given college. The admissions which are seen in these boxes are frequently known to the student body as athletes with special gifts (in crew, for example); these athletes have often received “likely” letters from universities indicating their interest in the student a year before the applications to colleges are due. One notes again and again, that the higher the grade point average, the higher the likelihood is of admission. This does not mean that the student with a “B” average cannot gain admission to a good college or university. It simply means that without a significant “hook” (i.e., very strong athletics, significant family legacy, extraordinary financial donation, or remarkable extracurricular activity), the likelihood for admission to a Harvard-Yale-Princeton (HYP) or their ilk is remote. This is not to say that a child still cannot gain admission to a very good school, such as a top 50 or even a top 20. The competition for admission to the top Ivies and their like is so intense at this point in time, that (just as it is with the top boarding schools), that it is frequently the stellar applicants who succeed.</p>

<p>This further begs the question as to whether it is “necessary” for a child to go the HYP schools. Some clearly feel that it is. They have stated over and over, that the “connections” their children make at the HYP schools and their ilk are very helpful (implying at times that they are essential), to enter the halls of financial power (or whatever other elite club they are referring to). As has been pointed out by others, there are such connections which can and are made at the elite boarding school level. Anecdotally, I have heard of individuals, one in particular, who went the Andover-Princeton route and is now, at the age of 23, on her way to the world of investment banking. If this is your goal, there is little that can be said about what is “necessary”. Your child might indeed benefit from any leg up they can get. However, for the rest, the elite boarding schools, and in fact many if not most boarding schools, can teach other valuable lessons. They teach how to apportion time. They teach how to get along with others. They teach valuing others who may be different from oneself. They frequently teach at an accelerated level, and thus push children to “be all they can be”. And perhaps, they teach how to behave in a world of elites. This last is the most indefinable, and may be one of the most uncomfortable for some to contemplate. Yet I personally think it is not to be underestimated. As a child of the lower of middle-middle class, I believe I can see both sides of the coin. There is a spectrum of social interaction unique to the political and social elite which is learned at home by some, and in school by others. One cannot generally learn it at the local public school, and it is indeed helpful if one wishes to swim in that pond. </p>

<p>And, if you wish to enter a profession such as medicine (as many apparently do), I believe the boarding school is still valuable for some of the reasons stated above. Additionally, in a situation such as entrance to a professional school, the “B” average in boarding school should not be an issue after presumably doing well in a top fifty university or college.
I hope the above serves as a starting point for some discussion. The process of application to and seeing a child through boarding school has been an educational experience for my family. It has been difficult, but personally, I could not imagine my children having made better choices. They have done better than I could have hoped. Whatever sacrifices we have made as a family seem to have been worth it, and on whole I have come to like and respect what the schools do, warts and all. </p>

<p>PS... I am certain some will say that you can get a perfectly good education through the public school system with AP, IB and honors courses. I know... I know.</p>

<p>While much of what tigerdad says is true and accurate, I’d like to add something about parent honesty. We too get caught up in the glory of an elite BS, and frankly, if I could do it over, I wish I was much more honest about my kid’s strengths and weaknesses. D is smart, well rounded, mature and making good choices at BS, but she could of used a few more years of being a bigger fish and getting more positive reinforcement at home. Why would I want my 15 yo to see herself as “not special” in comparison? Of course, she’s in a pool of uber-talent, but she can’t really appreciate that perspective. She sees herself working hard, competing hard in athletics, joining hard in ECs, and at every turn, there are other super students who are more talented. Honestly, being a “B” at BS has been rough.</p>

<p>A wonderfully candid write-up, tigerdad, and one that I hope more than a few prospective parents and students take the time to read before investing too much time, energy, and money on the 2011-12 BS search and application process.</p>

<p>I particularly appreciated your take on the college app process. Just recently, a student here stated something to the effect that “he/she is interested in BS because he/she wants to go to a HYP+MS school”. I don’t know how some of these preconceptions get formed…</p>

<p>Tigerdad-thanks for the piece. As a very new parent of a bs student, I find most of what you say so true and said beautifully. </p>

<p>I myself being a educator, and a third-generation educator, I have found many parents unrealistic in terms of their child. Taking an honest look at what would be best for any child is extremely difficult. As a divorced mom of one child, the last thing I wanted was to be away from my child during these teenage years, but I placed her needs and desires above mine and supported her decision to attend bs.</p>

<p>I am in total agreement with your statement that bs is not right for every student nor every family. This is the exact line I used when I pulled my d from the number one grammar school in our city to home-school. I agree it is a difficult road to travel for any parent even one like myself that is an educator with additional support from my college colleagues. I had many doubts at the beginning, but continued strong because my d was thriving, in a way she hadn’t for years.</p>

<p>BS has been the right move for my d and our family. During this entire first year I struggled with all the typical 1st-year-away issues, internally and from the outside world. </p>

<p>I look forward to the additional comments from other parents on many if not all of your comments. Thank you for adding this thread.</p>

<p>Outstanding @Tigerdad. You did parents and students a great service with this post!</p>

<p>I have found much of what tigerdad wrote true as well. Although, the recruiting process for many sports starts well before junior year. I’d also reiterate that not everyone is looking for an Ivy education even if they knew they would be accepted.</p>

<p>I’d like to thank you all for the positive feedback. My son is about to go to BS in a month, and it will be tough for us. I’ll miss him a great deal, and he’s the last child to go. The distance is far (900 miles) and we’ll be making lots of road trips. But, as many of you have noted, it’s not about us. It’s about them.</p>

<p>If a parent delivers child to BS for purposes of advancing ability of same child attending HYPS type college, I have two concerns.</p>

<p>First, the teaching at these schools is extremely good, and HYPS may fall short of the standards of BS. Go to [Best</a> Undergraduate Teaching | Rankings | Top National Liberal Arts Colleges | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching) to see a list of schools which better parallel teaching styles of BS.</p>

<p>Secondly, the great LAC of BS is often lost in larger university atmosphere, so I would recommend reading Colleges That Change Lives: 40 Schools That Will Change the Way You Think About Colleges == [Amazon.com:</a> Colleges That Change Lives: 40 Schools That Will Change the Way You Think About Colleges (9780143037361): Loren Pope: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Colleges-That-Change-Lives-Schools/dp/0143037366/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311302402&sr=1-1]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Colleges-That-Change-Lives-Schools/dp/0143037366/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311302402&sr=1-1).</p>

<p>While I would agree that the teaching is highly rigorous, I would not necessarily agree that it is always very good. In my daughter’s classes at a HADES school, I have seen many fine teachers, and some who are sorely lacking. One in particular, a chemistry teacher in whose class I sat for a lecture, really has no business teaching secondary school. </p>

<p>There is another issue as well. Many of these schools do not teach toward the AP examinaitons. One biology course, whose curriculum I reviewed at some length, was clearly at an upper level undergraduate level. While the material covered was very impressive, and very advanced, there were many gaps in the standard AP curriculum which made it difficult to take the standard AP exam. Now, it may be that colleges don’t heavily weight AP grades of HADES students who earn high grades in AP classes. However, I suspect they do weight them to some extent. With a very well thought out curriculum and a top notch teacher, it should be possible to have both high level content and learning, and cover material which will be asked on an AP examination.</p>

<p>Good observations tigerdad. This is a welcome relief from cheerleader posts we generally see on these forums. I wish we see more reporting from the trenches to get an accurate picture of the BSs.</p>

<p>The issue of teaching to the APs goes way beyond HADES. It is having significant negative impact on students and teachers in many situations. One might even regard the whole AP thing as yet another money-making grab. While it shouldn’t matter (but I acknowledge that it does), remind your kids that the value is in the analytic skills gained and the mastery of materials engaged, not in the gaming of a standardized test.</p>

<p>Good discussion, thanks for starting it. Responding to the issue that not everything is fair in the admissions process: I think you are implying that the game is much bigger than questions of “fair” or “not fair”, and I agree with that. What I would hope is that the kids turn the question almost inside-out – moving away from what can a school do or college for me that I can’t do myself, and toward an attitude of “what do I need to learn that will allow me to shape my life the way I want it”. The former is a worrier’s game – if I don’t get into the perfect school, my life goes downhill because I’m going to be missing something or someone. The latter has more self-confidence associated with it – whatever happens, I think I can figure it out. </p>

<p>Figuring it out may very well involve working with someone you met at school. In other words, connections. On the other hand, it may involve meeting someone new and having to establish a trust with them, perhaps on very short notice. That’s a pretty useful skill too. </p>

<p>There are better schools and not so better schools – agreed. But either way what I want out of the effort and the expense is a child who both can and wants to step up to problems (of which there will be an un-ending supply) and try to solve them. </p>

<p>As far as AP goes – if it fits with good teaching, and learning a subject in depth and in order, that’s fine – but if you have to compromise, I’d agree that it might be a better use of time to take the broader course. For example, history – my daughter’s humanities teacher advised her to take the AP literature option rather than the AP history option, because she felt that the current AP history course was heavy on facts and dates, light on discussion. I believe the AP history curriculum is evolving to include more discussion – if so, that would make it a lot better fit with what I think of when I imagine a history course.</p>

<p>With regards to the “fair” vs. “unfair” issue in BS admissions, I was referring to numerous threads I have read on this site in which student applicants feel that the admissions process is “not fair”. A variety of reasons are given, and they generally center on the fact that the boarding school admissions process is highly selective and therefore leaves some “unchosen”. There are frequently remarks made referring to the fact that the applicant in question has “better qualifications” than someone they know (or more frequently, know of), who did gain admission. From what I have read, students who do gain admission frequently feel the process is more or less “fair”, and some of those who don’t feel it is “unfair” in some way. This is an understandable reaction to a highly selective process in which “intangibles”, multivariate selection parameters, and some degree of chance may be involved.</p>

<p>With regards to the AP issue, I feel there are two different issues being discussed. The first is the academic issue. Should the student be challenged to think more, and think in depth, or should they be asked to “memorize facts” for the AP examination. From the standpoint of learning, most would likely agree that being intellectually challenged to “think” is the better option. However, we are also left with a practical issue, and that is the AP examination itself. AP grades do enter into the equation of college admissions. How much is an open question, but I suspect that they do count more than just a little, particularly if they are uniformly good. The only student to gain admission to Princeton University from our local high school (ever) was admitted this year. While he is indeed multitalented, he did extraordinarily well on his AP examinations, receiving 5 on six examinations, and a 5 on the physics AP examination while in 8th grade. The high school in question tries very hard, but the courses, other than APs are somewhat lacking (ancient Egyptian history was taught to students using the Disney film, “The Prince of Egypt”, for example). My point here is, that I would agree that learning how to think and dissect an issue, discuss it and analyze it are of paramount importance. However, we are still left with the practical issue of AP examination scores, what they mean, and how important they really are in college admissions. I would hope that a curriculum could be developed in which analysis of material as well as memorizing facts could both be accomplished, but perhaps I am being naive.</p>

<p>@tigerdad…it will be interesting to hear, as time goes by, whether your Princeton admittee actually graduates early (with all of the "advanced placement s/he earned), or whether s/he still doesn’t do 4 years at PU. That’s my particular frustration…the APs are sold as offering advanced standing, but the schools rarely grant full standing, so first you lay out money for the tests themselves, then you still have to lay out the money to the colleges. It just seems like another earnings gauntlet for ETS, while at the same time it “codifies” and (hogties) what otherwise exceptional high schools might want to do to help their students <em>differentiate</em> themselves.</p>

<p>We have two recent graduates of a “top” boarding school in our family. Although some of their classes did not specifically prepare the students for the test, they thought the actual AP exams were easy. Well, they didn’t think it was easy at the time, but received all 4s and 5s. This includes the child who walked out of the AP Calculus test and said “I left half of it blank, I’m sure I failed it” and received a 5. Maybe there’s a very generous curve? I think they took eleven tests between them. The level of instruction that they are given at these schools and the material used in class (all college texts) more than prepares them for the tests. Just my perspective, from a parent who has just been through this.</p>

<p>Glad to hear it, baystate! :)</p>

<p>PelicanDad- we have have friends who have gone through Loomis, and their honors level course are very rigorous. If your child does well there, they will have no problem with AP tests!</p>

<p>I suppose that if these children are indeed getting high AP scores, then there really isn’t much of an issue re: AP examinations. The earlier issue raised was whether they meant that much. My feeling is that they certainly can’t hurt. The issue I raised earlier, one with which I am quite familiar, was one of a high level AP biology class at one school in particular. As I said before, while much of the material was at the level of upper level college biology (the class covered much of the text book used at Johns Hopkins in first year biology early in in the year), there were gaps in what I would consider basic biology frequently learned at the high school level. Perhaps the faculty thought these things weren’t of great importance. Perhaps they thought the students would just “pick them up”.</p>

<p>As to the previous question of whether the boy going to Princeton will have the AP courses count towards credit, I think the answer is, “No”. While some schools will indeed allow placement into more advanced classes with AP credit, I don’t think any (or many?) will permit a student to be given credit towards a degree at the institution. And yes, I suspect much of that reluctance to grant credit represents a financial consideration.</p>

<p>Finally, at some public high schools, AP courses are the only way for a student to “prove their mettle” to colleges. At the large regional rural high school in our area, these AP courses are the only advanced courses available.</p>

<p>Bump</p>

<p>Nominating tigerdad for longest post.
I can never finish reading it</p>