<p>One of my twins has made NM semifinalist and the ASU package has arrived. It is pretty impressive with 9K for Semi-finalst status and 21K per year for finalist.</p>
<p>Son is interested in Engineering and ASU seems solid there. The honors college has a great rep and he has decided to apply and we will visit in December. I did not think he would go south to the Heat but the package would allow him some nice play money while in college.</p>
<p>Sure is an interesting twist. His words -- Dad the students in the honor college at ASU will all be very bright and probably as good as most Ivy league colleges in terms of student quality. (He is also thinking of applying to Penn)</p>
<p>We visited ASU this month...Barrett Honors College is ranked #1 in the US (according to ASU)--I don't know the details. </p>
<p>We spoke with a number of students (freshman to senior) in the honors college. All of them said they were provided advanced opportunities through the honors college that would not be available otherwise. Several students are published as undergrads...many undergrads do research with professors. ASU admitted over 100 NM finalists (I think around 130) this year. </p>
<p>The Arizona Republic ran an article in August of this year about how many students are choosing ASU over Ivies. You can find it in their archives.</p>
<p>I suggest a visit to ASU to make an informed decision. I cannot comment on Ivies.</p>
<p>Let us imagine for a minute, or even agree, that the Ivies are "better" than ASU, but that you'd have to pay full freight (it will come to around $190k over four years) to be there.</p>
<p>Now ask yourself, if ASU Honors is free, and I am committed to spending that $190k on my kids' education, are ANY of the Ivies worth ASU PLUS $190k in educational opportunities? I think it would be very, very, very rare for anyone to be able to make that argument adequately. $190k - 3 years of medical school. Unpaid internships anywhere in the world. Two years post-graduate learning to paint in Italy, plus the downpayment on a house when he goes to graduate school. Three years as a volunteer engineer doing appropriate technology projects in the third world, with $100k left over for when he gets back.</p>
<p>If you use your imagination some, I think you'd have to come to the conclusion that there are almost no circumstances under which - educationally - any of the Ivies can compete with ASU Honors plus the purchase of $190k in educational opportunities (cut it half, and say $100k, and I still think that holds.) I just don't see it. </p>
<p>Of course, if the $190k is pocket change, and there's plenty of money to do those other things anyway, then it really doesn't matter, does it?</p>
<p>$190k is a lot to pay for prestige, relative to what else you can buy with it.</p>
<p>We are also looking at ASU for D, a NMSF. What worries me: 1) superlarge school 2) far away from home in New York--can she handle it, and can we? :) 3) GPA requirement for keeping scholarship 4) "party school" reputation of ASU.</p>
<p>Lurkness I wouldn't worry about the party school rep. Most of the biggest universities in the nation have reputation for being big party schools, (i.e. UT-Austin, Ohio St., ASU) and why is that? B/c those are BIG schools, they are generally going to have a lot of everything.</p>
<p>It's still mostly about fit. My son wanted a small LAC -- his highest priority was a place where all his classes would be small and he would have opportunities for one-on-one interaction with profs, and he wanted a liberal arts curriculum. ASU is not that school. So he never considered the ASU offer for NM's or any other of the big U offers.</p>
<p>We were very attracted by the full-ride offered by both UAz & AzSU, but ultimately opted for USoCal. It's true that they only gave him 1/2 tuition NMF merit scholarship (which is very generous), but he's VERY happy where he is & that means a lot to us.
I had wished he had more seriously investigated the two Az Us, but am happy he has chosen a school that is a good fit for him & by stretching financially, we have been able to pay to let him have this option.</p>
<p>My son chose our state honors college with a full ride over a number of top schools with merit money. He knows a few graduates who were told by recruiters that they were recruited like ivy grads and are in NYC at great jobs. 83% of graduates go on to grad schools and are in at all the ivies and top schools (med and law). Their students win a number of national awards.</p>
<p>The university is huge but the honors college has made it very small and personal for him. The advising is top notch and one on one. The classes are small. The perks of the program are great and numerous. The areas of research and opportunities are endless. </p>
<p>He is an easy going, unassuming laid back kid who just loves to learn. Not having to compete and fight for all his wonderful opportunities is a huge
plus for a kid with this personality. So far he is very, very happy.</p>
<p>What you will find come next May is that your son will be offered merit money at some of these top schools thereby making it a more difficult decision for you. This site will allow you to see where he fits in the pack at some of the more "prestigious" schools. Some kids being offerered research opportunities, receiving likely letters, early notification of scholarship awards etc. before they enroll.</p>
<p>It is an interesting, fun and nervewracking time as you decide between so many awesome opportunities. Keep your options open.</p>
<p>I went to ASU as a grad student, so I can't say about undergrad (yes, it does have a party school rep, but the honors college is likely to be different), but I loved living in Tempe. I grew up in the Midwest and have spent 20 years in New England and love it here, but I found the desert environment to be a wonderful (temporary) change. And the ASU campus is beautiful.</p>
<p>Visit, definitely. Someone on CC has said that a 3.5 has to be maintained to keep the money and that it's not easy to do. That suggests it's challenging if it's mostly NMFs in the program. Take this seriously. It's a big school but it could turn out to be a fit.</p>
<p>in addition to checking out asu.....also consider checking with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Texas A & M, Univ. of Tulsa, University of Central Florida, Wichita State University and your own in-state schools. Contact their Admissions Office or Honors Program/Honors College and be sure to let them know of your son's recognition with National Merit. Some of these schools have National Merit Recruiters on Staff who will work with your family directly. You might also consider checking with Baylor , Washburn University, Univ. of Alabama, University of Arkansas, University of House, UT - Dallas, and Harding University.</p>
<p>Agree that you needn't worry about the party school moniker. My S went to Tulane and chose the Honors dorm. While he had plenty of fun and loved it there, the kids in the Honors dorm/program have their heads on straight in terms of the balance between work and play. Of course, there are exceptions, but he will find the people who match his values</p>
<p>drizzit..check your PM's.Im the Mom of an 05 Honors College at ASU NMF grad.Have lots of insight/info for you.
Engineering School at ASU has brand new facilities and is dripping in endowment $$.Vast internship opportunities as its the only game in town(also applies for other majors).One of D's closest friends was a Mechanical Engineering major.
Every school is a party school if the kid wants it to be.Alcohol is available everywhere.
As Bethie stated,Tempe is a great place to spend a few years.
Transportation by air is no problem and the U is 10 minutes from the airport,literally.You fly over the campus when you are landing.</p>
<p>My son does not really like the Southern US due to Heat, Humidity and lack of Skiing. Many of those schools you list have sent mail but only ASU and AU hold any interest for him. He says at least it is not humid there and there is some skiing within a three hour drive of Phoenix.</p>
<p>He says he will just come North for the Summer if he ends up there.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Dad the students in the honor college at ASU will all be very bright and probably as good as most Ivy league colleges in terms of student quality.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree with Mini's post #3 in which he takes his usual position that there is not a lot of economic benefit to attending an Ivy. And I think the quoted statement from the OP above also needs to be checked carefully. There are some VERY DIFFERENT students at some Ivies who wouldn't dream of attending an honors program at any state university--because of the classmates that they would miss out on having. (I write this as a parent who expects my oldest son to treat our state's flagship university honors program as his "safety" program, one he can get instant admission to at an early date in his senior year of high school.) </p>
<p>There are a lot of interesting work opportunities with HUGE economic and personal satisfaction value that are simply much more open to Ivy graduates than to graduates of state universities. For some students, pursuing some careers, it is plainly economically advantageous to attend an Ivy-caliber school. (Here, "Ivy" doesn't necessarily mean really a member of the Ivy League, but a school like MIT or Stanford.) </p>
<p>An applicant this year with a strong profile might just as well apply to all schools of interest, see which schools offer admission, attend some prefrosh visits, and compare financial aid offers. But now is too early to decide where to attend.</p>
<p>Your points are well taken token but to counter. There are many incredible students who are not interested in the culture that is the IVY league and would not think of attending there. That is a knife that cuts both ways.</p>
<p>I see studies that show the elites provide an advantage and studies that say, for an undergrad education there is no long term benefit to the Ivy type education. I would argue that the Graduate school choice is more important than the undergraduate school choice in many careers. In engineering, the Co-Op programs are absent in the Ivys like Penn and are a real advantage to the State U's and schools like Northwestern, Pacific U, and others. </p>
<p>I think one has to be careful not to make blanket statements when individual programs are so different in the many colleges across the US.</p>
<p>That being said my son did not like Caltech or MIT, both sent info. but he did not like the fit or feel comfortable applying to either. He is interested in Northwestern engineering however.</p>
<p>first, ASU IS a party school of the first order -- the son of a good friend just graduated, and he attended bcos it was the only college to which he was accepted. </p>
<p>Other things to consider: the minimum gpa for admission to the campus is a 2.5; or, a 3.0 and a 1040 SAT (exludes writing). 25% of matriculants have less than a 990 SAT, 21 ACT. 17% of students were in the bottom half of their HS class. Average gpa = 3.34; 24% below a 3.0; at least 400 students with less than a 2.0. 40K students... Yes, the Honors college has an excellent reputation, but the masses of students in Tempe just don't have a very strong HS transcript. On the plus side, it makes it easy for an academic star to standout.</p>
<p>drizzit: one other thing to consider is you financial position. As mini notes, no school is worth ASU free + $190k. But, since you have twins, your efc might be such that a well-endowed school would significantly bring down the cost of attendance at a private school.</p>
<p>fwiw: You should also check out other schools that love NMFs. For example, USC (#10 engineering), typically offers a $15k discount off of sticker to NMFs.</p>
<p>Son turned down the ASU offer 3 yrs ago for a LAC. The honors college sounds great. The 3.5 at that time scared me. I think it would have been considered more if (a) classmates hadn't talked the school "down" when he was accepted (b) full tuition was absolutely necessary. Son liked ASU after visit but really wanted a smaller setting. We all liked the town, flying in and out would have worked, he is only an hour drive away now and we see him only when WE go to his concerts. We know 2 kids who went to ASU-one who is now in law school-took the Natl Hispanic offer and loved ASU. One kid left after 1 semester, but I doubt family checked into the school-mom did not know the "party school" reputation and was shocked. Kid was not NMS.</p>