<p>I'd love to hear from other parents whose children are very academically oriented and chose to only apply to their flagship state school but had a shot at getting into an ivy or other higher rated private college. Stats of D: over 4.0, 2280 SAT, NMF, AP Scholar with Distinction, etc. What are the reasons and for parents who already have such children in college, do they feel challenged? Do they regret not applying to other schools?</p>
<p>My daughter wasn't NMS but a friend who was looking at colleges at the same time was and she ended up at a state school.
It wasn't even the flagship school.
I was under the impression that money was a factor, as many privates don't offer merit aid.
I think she did well in school, in her field ( outdoor recreation) I don't think a more rigourous school would have made much of a difference.
It was ironic though when they were looking at schools together because her grades and scores were obviously much higher than my ds, but d ended up a much more academic school.
Different majors though.
I think many state schools have lots of opportunities for all levels of students, a motivated student can do very well there, and have a payoff of not having as much debt!</p>
<p>I have two relatives who had similar stats and awards. Both girls chose state schools over Ivies, both chose honors programs at state schools, out of state. </p>
<p>They both loved their experiences at university. Both have excelled in very demanding fields. One has gone on to an extremely prestigious post grad program, again attending a state school over H.</p>
<p>However, I'm not sure they got the social support they would have had in a more homogeneous intellectual group at an Ivy. It hasn't affected their careers or intellectual lives, but it has affected their personal lives--in my opinion. Mind you, these women are now in their 30s.</p>
<p>It affected their personal lives because there were not as many students with similar stats who they could socialize with?</p>
<p>Not stats exactly....these girls had incredible ECs too.....They were not surrounded by students with similar talents and life trajectories--as they would have been had they gone to one of the Ivies.</p>
<p>Waving my hand over here..One D NMF musician who chose extremely large state U with music school and Honors College.Full tuition plus stipend paid for most expenses (room not board,apt for last two years,not food or gas) Loved her experience.Wanted classes to be varied and diverse population.Felt stifled by small campuses we visited.Had extraordinary mentoring opportunities and summer abroad experience.Got excellent grad school result with unexpected bonus of full fellowship which pays tuition plus generous stipend paying living expenses,so again,no debt.She felt she had enough of an intellectual cohort because of the sheer size of the Honors College,but her friends came from all over the U..Honors,her major,her special interests,her minor,etc.</p>
<h1>2 S now making college decision,also NMF.Altogether different major but also wanted large campus with major sports orientation and honors college setting.Picked schools based on intended major plus ability to thrive if interests change.Courted by some schools and invited to scholarship weekends.Absolutely won over by the excellent treatment at a southern state U flagship with highly regarded dept in his major,great honors option,wonderful facilities and the best money offer (tuition,room and board +laptop).It knocked his first choice private out of the running. He hopes to be happy there come August.</h1>
<p>Hopefully his outcome will be as satisfactory as his sisters was.We learned through her experience how to take advantage of Honors College connections, and to look beyond the college rankings(whch frankly,was difficult at first).Our pocketbooks and retirement plans and home equity will be forever grateful.
This path is not for everyone but it worked for our kids and family.</p>
<p>I am a graduate of a UC campus.</p>
<p>I honestly don't see how any student could possibly find education at any major, large university to lack challenge. I'd feel that if the student has that complaint, then he/she isn't looking hard enough.</p>
<p>I realize that there are some states that lack strong university systems, but I am talking about the big universities in the big states -- schools with 15,000 or more students on campus. I don't care how poorly the school fares on the US News ranking list -- a large university simply affords a tremendous array of options, and a student who is underchallenged should be able to enroll in advanced level courses, especially if they enter with AP credit. I was taking upper division courses at my UC campus by the 2nd quarter of my freshman year- it was simply a matter of signing up for the courses I wanted if I happened to have the prerequisites. </p>
<p>It is true that the large university is also going to be filled with students who have less academic prowess than the kids who qualify for the merit scholarships, but that doesn't mean that those kids are going to end up in the same classes. Higher performing kids are often exempt from entry level course requirements because of their SAT or AP test scores. </p>
<p>A large university is also much more likely to offer a larger array of advanced courses in any given subject than a small college -- it simply is a matter of numbers. Larger faculty= more course offerings, more sections.</p>
<p>S#1 was not NMF but was Commended, AP scholar with distinction and had similiar stats to the OP.
He chose to only apply to 3 State universities (2 in-state, 1 oos).<br>
He went to a large (2800 students) public high school and really wanted the "big school" atmosphere. It offers him the sense of freedom and independence and all the diversity he was looking for plus a wide range of majors to choose from.<br>
Some of his new friends probably did not enter college with the same academic stats that he did (some were higher, some lower) but this isn't an issue for him.<br>
He tells me "Mom, people in college don't sit around talking about their high school grades".</p>
<p>He was invited to join Honors college but turned it down due to a major EC which added a heavy time comittment. </p>
<p>So he is in "regular" classes with all the regular students and I can say without a doubt that he is both challenged and happy with his choice (says he can't imagine going anywhere else).</p>
<p>Big state universities may not be for everyone but some high performing students may be missing out on great opportunites if they automatically dismiss them without really checking to see what they have to offer.</p>
<p>It's tempting. I'm going to be a NMF (as long as nothing crazy happens), and it's very hard to choose between a state shcool and a LAC or Ivy. At most of the LACs that I want to attend, my parents would still have to scrounge up at the very least 10 grand a year, probably 20.</p>
<p>If I went to UCF, I think I would get around 18 grand in total scholarship money. Tuition is 3k... that leaves 15 grand for eating, finding an apartment that I like. I could use the rest for travel.</p>
<p>It feels bad to leech 20 grand from your parents when you could go somewhere else for more than free.</p>
<p>My D is a NMS, AP Scholar, etc. She chose to attend a large state university and enroll in the Honors Program and another special program at the school which is aimed at high achieving students and adds a leadership component. Neither of us has had any regrets. She feels extremely challenged in a positive way and is happy. That's all one could ask for, IMO.</p>
<p>cathymee, please elaborate on what you mean by "we learned how to take advantage of honors college connections"? Anyone reading this thread is interested in understanding what honors colleges have to offer our kids.</p>
<p>Money was the great temptation for the other NSF students we knew. Several schools offer scholarships and waive out of state tuition for NSFs.</p>
<p>I'd have to argue that being around other talented kids and taking more challenging classes is still important for some students. And skipping to sophomore or junior level classes alone isn't the same, particularly not if you're in the general population at many of these schools. The material is only more challenging if you aren't familiar with the lower level courses. That shouldn't be the case.</p>
<p>Honors programs probably do a better job of putting talented students together and putting them in more challenging classes. My S was in a comparable program and enjoyed that aspect of it.</p>
<p>The one thing I wonder is if students in the honor programs run into the same kind of resistance from regular students and professors not affiliated with the honor program the students in my S's group did. Mostly minor problems, but it was still interesting.</p>
<p>As the dust starts to settle on this year's college app season, I can see our large State U with Honors program slowly rising to the top as our DS's #1 choice. No guarantee he'll pick it, lots of envelopes yet to be opened, but it is very hard to turn down the money. You'll find lots of people on this forum going thru the same difficult decisions in the next few weeks. With the merit aid our DS has won at the State U, I would be surprised to see him turn it down to go into debt at the presitigious big name schools he has also been accepted to. It would be one thing if DS didn't like the big State U, but he loves it and so do his parents. We'll see.</p>
<p>Depends what the state school is...UNC-Chapel Hill in North Carolina is very good. UC-Berkeley and UVA are other choices.</p>
<p>airil:</p>
<p>think about the size of schools like Berkeley and Michigan. Either of those schools have more (in absolute numbers) of high stat kids than Harvard, Princeton or Yale. They just have more lower stat kids, as well. Post #4 is off the mark.</p>
<p>My kid hasn't made his final decision yet, but he is a NMF who didn't apply to any super-selective schools. He didn't want that ultra competetive atmosphere--he likes things more laid back--that's just his personality.<br>
He is not at all interested in football or frats or the "big college" experience. However, after he visited a huge state U. that buys NMFs, (U of OK) that school went from the bottom to the top of his list. His choice comes down to the "feeling" he had on the campus visit.
(BTW, his mom and dad were both NMFs--dad went ivy, mom went state).
There are hundreds/thousands of smart students on every campus.
It's nice to have intellectual peers, but "lower scoring" classmates all have their talents, unique experiences, and viewpoints to share, too.</p>
<p>Worrywart
The Honors College at D's non prestigious large state U(in the eyes of many here at CC) offered an additional layer of counseling(above the counselor in the major) and access to what they called an office of National Scholarship..specialized faculty who mentored the students in applying for things like Fullbrights, Woodrow Wilson Scholarships,Goldwaters,etc.for Graduate study and the help needed for medical dental and law admissions.D was in the process of applying for a Fullbright to study abroad in Finland (!! of all places) when she changed her mind and persued an opportunity in Grad school here in the US (to work with a particular individual whose works she was using in her honors thesis preparation).They also had library privileges equal to the Grad student population on campus,early registration and housing priority.There were numerous guest speakers, alecture series and Honors only actiivities,like book review and movie viewings plus review.Also she did an Honors only summer study abroad,with faculty from the Honors College doing the teaching.
As opposed to another poster,I dont recollect D mentioning having trouble with the "regular"undergrad population when taking required courses or the "regular" faculty.Perhaps it was because she was sort of specialized in music and womens studies so met like minded students in those courses.But she took regular language classes (added German as prep for grad school),science,etc.In fact one reason she gave for wanting this type of setup (large U,honors,music school,etc) was not wanting what she(her opinion folks,don't flame me!) would call a stifling atmosphere,she wanted diversity in ethnic,economic,cultural and educational ability backgrounds.</p>
<p>Cathymee, I like your posts. I like the way your daughter thinks. Plus the program at ASU sounds great.</p>
<p>Just read this entire thread, but I agree with dstark. Great post cathymee. Very much agree with your last sentence, too.</p>
<p>Amen, atomom.</p>