<p>What would stop him from just pretending that he never was at Guilford to begin with - just apply as a freshman for next year and say he took a year off of college? Then, he wouldn't have to submit the Guilford transcript at all.</p>
<p>Carolyn, I think the financial aid package will give him away (federal loans,etc.). Now if he had paid cash, and the application doesn't specifically ask....hmmmmm.</p>
<p>Ah...forgot about the financial aid.</p>
<p>Don 't most applications ask whether you've ever been admitted or attended another institution. Usually in the form of "List all colleges or universities that you have , etc. etc. "</p>
<p>Not sure if this will help, but you might want to sit down with S and examine the course syllabus/test schedule. Try to discover what went wrong and when. </p>
<p>What classes did he miss? Why did he want to withdraw? Why did the professor leave? Were there any other behavior problems that made the school want to dump him? If they don't want to talk to you, it leads me to think they have things they can't say about him for privacy reasons.</p>
<p>When did he try to withdraw? Does he have an email record of that? Was it within the time limit for withdrawal? Is the withdrawal refusal on record anywhere? That point--that he attempted to withdraw and was illegally denied the opportunity--might be your best bet. Even trading one of the Fs for a W would put him back in the school.</p>
<p>BUT...you also have to look at why your S allowed himself to fail. The nasty bump might be good for him. A huge wake up call.</p>
<p>What kind of ADVISOR lets a first semester freshman get kicked out of college for failing his own course, especially a course on adjusting to college life? Sounds as if this one person had much too much impact on the whole situation and that there was a personality conflict involved. Given the total lack of response from others in the administration, I wouldn't run back to that school any time fast.</p>
<p>But what a terrible experience for your son, who otherwise did an honorable job in four out of six classes while being sick. This is every parent's fear, that a kid will get really sick away from home and, especially being inexperienced in how college courses are graded, fail. But one strike and you're out???</p>
<p>I've known kids to fail college courses just because the illness came after it was too late to withdraw from the class. The fact is that, unlike high school, a semester's worth of work might total less than half of the grade. In many classes, there is one midterm and one final, or one midterm and one paper, or one paper and one final. If you do only middling well on the midterm and bomb the final or paper which count 60% or more of the grade, you're toast.</p>
<p>What a sobering story! We relied very heavily on the CTTL book in our college search for our son. I could easily... easily see him slipping into the same hole, and I would certainly expect some kind of warning that he was in trouble. How ironic that your son failed the "First Year Experience" class. (twice, apparently)</p>
<p>I don't really care what the school's written policy is, (the purpose of which is obviously to cover their ass) to simply open a report card and see, ".9 gpa = don't come back" is way too harsh and seems like an easy way out for the school. Where is the counseling, tutoring, mentoring, student-assistance? </p>
<p>Thanks for your post. I hope that somehow we can avoid a similar situation.</p>
<p>p.s. Are you out the entire year's tuition + room and board or just one semester? By revoking financial aid do they send you a bill for money received?</p>
<p>regarding the financial aspect: they refunded the second semester's tuition and have not billed to be reimbursed for the financial aid, so I assume the revoking is not retroactive. I certainly hope this is not in the plan-- talk about salt in the wound. </p>
<p>I think "sac" is absolutely on the money (thank you): the one teacher/advisor had way too much power in this whole experience. And gave bad advice to boot. The fact that my son was passing everything at midterm does indicate that the final exam grades and missed work in the last two weeks when he was sick of the term tanked him.</p>
<p>Ok, I did the math. I gave him an F in two six-credit courses; a B in two two-credit courses; and a C in two two-credit courses. I multiplied the number equivalent of each grade by the number of credits of the course. Then I divided the total by the number of credits taken. Even with those extreme differences in credits, it still averaged out to a One. So no, I wouldn't assume that the school's calculation was correct.</p>
<p>I find this whole situation with your son troubling (mind boggling) because at D's school, parents are sent a letter from the first year dean (usually after midterms) if the midterm grades indicate that there is cause to be concerned over the student's progress. In our case, no news was good news.</p>
<p>You would think that the First Year Dean/ Center would keep students apprised of important dates.</p>
<p>From looking at Guilfords calendar:</p>
<p>Regular Classes began on August 23
Last day to drop w/o grade September 10
Interim Grades due October 13
Last Day to Drop with a W October 29
Last Day of Class December 10</p>
<p>If your son was doing well all through midterms and the interim grading period then had a slide during the last 6 weeks of class (October 29- Dec 10), he basically had no recourse, as it was too late to drop class. It seems as his professor had no problem with telling your son that it was too late to drop the class but did not give him advice on how to turn things around.</p>
<p>If your son was sick during the last 2 weeks of class, why didnt the professors give him an incomplete (which is usually the standard practice in this type of situation) then he would have had the opportunity to complete the work. I understand that the visiting professor may have had his hands tied, but the department chair could have approved the incomplete.</p>
<p>I thought I was the only one, my son is in a somewhat similar situation. Just finished his first semester with a 1.5 GPA, and is now on probation. Based on his phone call to me a week or two ago when he opened his grades on-line, he was really surprised with his grades, one B, three C's and an F in honors chemistry. He seemed have no idea how he was doing in his classes. If he hadn't gotten two C's in liberal arts electives that he kept saying were easy, I would attribute it to a math and science courses that were too tough for him. I think it is a st,udy skills adjustment issue, however, that he hopefully will grow out of. We both talked to his advisor (he was too upset, in tears actually, to talk to her immediately), and he is taking chemistry (regular) and calculus over again. We made it clear that we were only going to pay for him to take credits once, and that he was going to have to spend this summer taking courses to get back in sequence. This assumes, of course, that he gets himself back on track this semester.</p>
<p>I am not sure what we can do for him, aside of proding him a bit. There are some things he needs to fiqure out himself. We discussed options for help from the school when he went back and advised him to talk to his professors so that he understood how he did so poorly. He tried to e-mail them over break, but has yet to find anything out. Has been back a week or so now. I don't want to harass him, but plan on calling in later in the week to check in.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any ideas? I hate to think that we are wasting more time and money on second semester. Any suggestions on how we should proceed. I understand that this is not necessarily the end of the world, I have two siblings who flunked out of school freshman year and went on to graduate (my sister is a nurse with two bachelor degrees and my brother does some type of financial work and has a MS from BC). Both of them, however, took a long time to fiqure things out and become good students. It was a painful process, which costs much more now than it did twenty or twenty five years ago.</p>
<p>lbr6 -- If your son is willing, I would try to talk to someone at the school -- not necessarily to plead his case, but to get all the information you can. I know of a similar situation at a small lac where the administration was pretty hard-nosed because they felt they had reached out to the student repeatedly to let her know she was in danger of failing and to offer help, but that she hadn't responded. Perhaps your son's college feels the same. And, it's also possible that if they did reach out to him it was not in a way he recognized. Anyway, I'd try to get all the info you can so he can figure out his next step.</p>
<p>Massmom -- Sounds as if you have done what you can. He now knows how hard college classes are, compared to high school. You can hope he'll make use of study skills sessions. As you pointed out, this happens to a lot of students -- especially kids who have a great time socially the first semester. As a middle school math teacher once told me: some kids just need a good kick in the pants. Unfortunately, in college that may not come till final grades, while in middle school you can rely on that notice that you're in danger of failing even before the quarter grade. I hope this was just the right kick in the pants for your son and that it's all he needs!</p>
<p>I think he needs to find out what the schools policy is on the F because at some schools if you retake the course, you get the average of the 2 grades and the F is removed. Regarding him retaking the calculus, I thought that if he got a C he could not retake.</p>
<p>I think that this can be especially hard for students who did really well in high schools because they probably never saw a "C" and may feel that they are no longer smart. He can stil lturn things around. Remind him that this is not highschool. There is a different set of study skills that are needed in college and it's okay if he has to learn those skill sets. Son should see if school has an academic skills center as sometimes they give workshops on notetaking, outlining reading etc.</p>
<p>I think the biggest message that we need to get across to our kids is that no one is going to give them extra points for suffering. Now that they are well versed in what no tot do, let them know that help is always available. If they feel that they are not getting the hang of it there is no shame in going to tutoring, asking for help, making an appoinment with the professor or even dropping a course. We are always there with an ear if they need to vent or just bounce stuff of of us.</p>
<p>After consulting with the wife, turns out we do know someone who "came home" after first semester at college. (Now I think I know why!) He took courses at a local college and returned to the original college the following fall. It appears that the 1.0 threshold is fairly common. But there is typically an appeal process.</p>
<p>The school policy is that if you get anything less than a C- in the course, you can replace the grade in the GPA calculation. The previous grade appears on the transcript, but is not used. Calculus was a C-. Interesting enough, the school sends a mid-term progress report, which indicated that he was doing satisfactory (which could just mean non-failing) in all his course. Kind of like middle school. </p>
<p>We told him to seek out an academic skills center. He has never been a good notetaker, partly because high school science (and other courses) came very easy to him. My younger child has better study skills, but is much less likely to actually understand the material. He may have an easier adjustment.</p>
<p>I hope the grades were a "wake up call" that he will heed. Hopefully, it won't take more that one such call. We pointed out to him that a lot of people have problems freshman year, and that if he can turn himself around, no one would hold it against him. This semester is up to him</p>
<p>My son had a horrible semester when he took a 5 credit "Object Based Programming" course that he bombed. And it bombed him. Not only was it the biggest hunk of his schedule, he refused to drop it even when it was pretty clear that it was not only taking up too much of his time for so low of a return--he was over his head, but it was jeopardizing two other courses that were not easy either. So he flunked the Programming course, aced the 3 credit English and a 2 credit "nothing" course that he had stuck in there and got a "D" and a "C' in the Science and Language that he could have done well in had he dropped the Programming course and replaced it with an easier course. He also was in trouble credit wise as he was under the 16 credits that semester that is really needed to graduate on time, and he was already under by a few credits which was why he stuck in this 2 credit seminar (thank God for that!) He had a miserable summer taking 12 weeks of programming for a total of 6 credits for a course similar to the one he flunked as well as taking language course at the same level as the one he took and a science course as well. He got a B in the Programming and aced the two other courses, but worked like a fiend all summer not getting home until well after 11PM with those courses he had to take after a grueling day at work. The grades did not mitagate his average at his school but if he should ever apply to a graduate program, they will be there to help out. </p>
<p>As to first semester failures, it is really hard to say what caused the problem. I am not familiar with Guilford's courses but it is hard to imagine that the courses he took and failed are worth 8 credits combined or more which would be necessary for him to go below a 1.0. The First Year experience courses are typically seminar type course that are easy A's or B's in my experience. Something is not right here, and as a parent I would want to get to the bottom of the situation, especially as his advisor was teaching the course. I would go as far as hiring a local attorney, and setting up an appointment to get to the bottom of this. You would need the cooperation of your son, as he is probably over 18, and info cannot be legally released to you without his expressed consent. You can see why I am dubious about the credit values as the course my son was taking at 5 credits was a real blockbuster of a course and a central course for Computer Science and Computer Engineering majors to be worth proportionally that much of a schedule. His first year seminar was worth 3 credits on that scale. What else was your son taking that two courses made up more than half of his schedule? Regardless, you and your son are entitled to an informational session. </p>
<p>As to what he should do for this year, I would suggest a job, community service, perhaps a course addressing his academic weak spots, and anything else that is useful as a gap year. You may want to peruse what colleges are available for him and a "fresh start" approach may be an option. But it is important that you know what went wrong. Was he not showing up for class, was he on drugs, was he just not doing his work, are his academics that far behind the standard? There may well be some answers here that need to be addressed.</p>
<p>In my experience, I have been underwhelmed with the feedback to parents from colleges. Though colleges enjoy the luxery of being the only thing I know that places the financial responsibility on the parent when the kids are legally adults, they do not tend to hide behind the law on the confidentiality issues when there are very simple ways to have this info shared. It is truly ludicrous. Kids who are very ill, mentally and physically can die under the "protective " umbrella of a university. My son nearly lost a kidney due to the lackadaisical care of the university health center and he got much better care than most students as an athlete. I have also called to talk to "advisors" and department heads of various colleges and found them appallingly ignorant of things that they really should know. I have spoken to various people at my D's college regarding some of her issues, and have come to the conclusion that I know things work better than they do. She was very poorly advised by people who truly should have known better, and it was against my better judgement as was the idiotic schedule my son took that one term. When I called his school about that, I found that the person in who was in charge of scheduling for his major and no clue or interest about any courses out side of the department. She could not tell me the relative difficulty levels of a number of science courses when it took no rocket scientist to do so. And this is a top uni, and D's college is a small LAC. </p>
<p>I don't know really what to say, as I generally advocate letting kids take their lumps when they go away for school. I want to know what they are taking and their grades, and I see alarms ring sometimes when they tell me their choices, but I am pretty well informed about college courses, not something most parents are. But I feel the kids need to make that attempt to go solo freshman year, and if they crash, that is when the parentst need to try to pick up the pieces. But I would definitely want more info as to what went wrong so the next steps can be well planned and any big, hidden problem can be addressed. I would truly insist on a meeting, and an attorney from Greenboro, may need to be right there to remind the college that you are serious about this. And as I said before, your son needs to be on board for this as well, painful as it may be now. Just to sweep it under the rug and take another stab in the dark for the next step without addressing weaknesses and issues can result in another fiasco.</p>
<p>My daughter recieved an F spring semester at Reed in her Ochem class.
She already had academic warning not probation for a lower GPA( 2.7?), but for her to retake it, would be at same time as senior thesis and doing an overload. Not realistic.
I was unhappy that she had , had an ADD coach who left two months or so before end of year and wasn't replaced. His support had been critical to her success for the previous 2 1/2 years.
If she had retaken Ochem at Reed and taken her regular senior year courses AND passed, the F would have been dropped.
If she had retaken OChem at Reed by itself, the F would have been dropped but she would have used up her 4 years of fin aid, and wouldn't have gotten finaid senior year.
What she is doing is retaking the whole year of Ochem at a community college with the chem depts blessing, her A at the community college won't be calculated into her GPA and the F will stand on her Reed transcript but Ochem requirement will be fullfilled for her major.
I imagine when she applies to grad school they will average all her grades, not just her Reed grades. I did not get replies to my emails to the dean about the learning depts resistance to making a plan for her to return. They said that they will make a plan once she passes the class. I wanted them to make a plan for her before she passes the class, cause she won't get out of school till after they are done. Luckily, the head of chemistry is supportive oof her, but I would wish for more communication from the "pwers that be"
She likes the school and I am happy for her, but am frustrated that they will accept the requirement but not average the grade</p>
<p>Something's not right here. According to the Guilford catalog, except for some PE, Music and Drama courses, and some seminars which are adjuncts to regular 4 unit courses, all of their courses have the same weight, including the First Year Experience course: 4 units. I can't get to a .9 GPA with 2 F's and 4 B's and C's, even if the B's were in PE and guitar. First thing I'd do is check the math.</p>
<p>Yes, something's not right. The Guilford catalog says the standard course load is 4 courses or 16 units. As Kluge notes, all courses are 4 units. Anything over 18 units requires prior approval from the advisor. How did your son's advisor allow him to register for six classes? That doesn't seem right. It also says that courses can be dropped for a "W" up to six weeks before the end of the semester.</p>
<p>Doesn't look like a .9 is a possible gpa. Hmmm?</p>