<p>lbr6 ~ Can't your son just request a transcript and see what classes the college thinks he took, and what grades they think he earned, and therefore how they calculated a 0.9 GPA? I don't think 0.9 can be achieved from the information that has been provided to you, so something is wrong. Many colleges will fax an informal transcript for a few dollars on the same day you request it. It seems to me that this is the first piece of information that you need.</p>
<p>Hi again folks. Thanks for all the thoughts and comments. Regarding the Guilford student: the standard course load is 16 units. My son enrolled in 3 4-credit classes and 4 1-credit classes. One of these didn't work out due to scheduling conflict so was immediately dropped for a total of 15. [He was not advised to take another 1-credit class, which later proved unfortunate: this was the reason he couldn't drop the First Year (4-credit) class he was failing, because he would have been less than full time at that point and was told he would lose his financial aid, medical coverage, and have to move off campus. When he asked about adding a 1-unit class in October or doing an independent study he was told it was too late, and that freshmen weren't allowed to do independent stdies, respectively. This is the point at which he was told to see the Dean, but that he wasn't likely to help. (I later experienced myself just how inflexible this person, Steven Shapiro, in his first semester as dean, could be!) In any case, the idea of moving off campus was too much for him to deal with at a point when he felt overwhelmed as it was, and he dropped the idea knowing full well he was likely to continue to hate the class and do poorly.]</p>
<p>But back to the GPA. As everyone now knows he failed 2 of the 4-credit classes. He got a C in the other. He got a B and a C- in two of his 1-credit classes, and the other was pass/fail and seems to have been assigned no point value on his transcript. They calculated the total hours earned as 7; GPA hours as 14; GPA points as 12.7; resulting in an average of average of 0.9. Any math whizzes out there who can verify this?</p>
<p>I really feel for your son. Did the Dean have any suggestions when he went to see him? Sounds like a real mess all around.</p>
<p>Ibr6, yeah, that's .9. What a mess. I thought a small school was supposed to have great personal advising to prevent things like this from happening.</p>
<p>I would be tempted to call the advisor and ask him what could have been done differently. I know this isn't likely to make a difference but I sure would like to put him on the spot.</p>
<p>He was just told to do the best he could to catch up in the FYE class, and really given no other options that seemed reasonable. Moving out on his own, hundreds of miles from home, really didn't seem viable. He thought all he could do was live with the class and make the best of the situation, which didn't turn out to much: trying to catch up not only failed in that class but contributed to his falling behind in other classes that he had been doing ok in.</p>
<p>We may actually pursue the legal angle, if only because we feel this whole thing has been so botched and now is a blemish on his record that he may or may not be able to rise above. Do you think it will really come back to haunt him (through financial aid) if we simply don't list the college on his new applications? We had certainly considered this possibility. He is enrolling in community college right away in CT.</p>
<p>If he does well in the community college, the time at Guilford probably won't matter when he is ready to transfer, even if he is forced to list it as a "college attended."</p>
<p>Ibr, I would want to get to the bottom of this just in case there is some serious issue with your son that needs to be addressed. And if your son wants to know what went wrong, and some ideas on what to do if he should find himself in a similar situation in the future, he should get a report on what happened. </p>
<p>I would not bring up the year there, unless the question is directly asked. I do not recommend lying on applications. Your son;s experience occurs often enough so it is certainly something that he should be able to move on. My nephew burned out a number of colleges before he finally settled down. He is now a doctor. He did have to send all of those botched transcripts to the medical school clearing house, which caused a lot of concern at the time. But he did get financial aid without any issue for all of those years. I believe the rules for federal aid preclude getting more than one bachelors' paid for. You should research that issue. </p>
<p>I don't know if community college is necessarily the best route for him to take. He should spend what is left of this year doing things that kids do for a gap year, so that he can consider going to another school. But to plunge right back into school without thinking about the experience and deciding the next steps may be starting a college burn out, which is what my nephew did, and in retrospect, was a big mistake. He went through 4 schools before settling down, and 3 of them were burn outs. You do not want to live through that; take that from one who did. It aged me 5 years in two.It was after getting a hospital job and getting interested in some research projects, that he gained direction and was able to apply himself. He was certainly bright enough that he could have done well at the time but he just had no interest or direction. He needed to focus and grow up.</p>
<p>They ought to realize how their school is coming across. </p>
<p>The freshman guidance this young man reportedly received would be a travesty at even the largest state university. It is inexcusable at a small, supposedly nurturing LAC.</p>
<p>Certainly write to Pope!</p>
<p>lastbastion, thank you. That is exactly what my husband-- a college professor for the last 25 years-- wrote to this college president (he hasn't replied). Even at the largest state universities he received regular inquiries from concerned advisors who were responsible for students with borderline work, requesting insight into the student's situation.</p>
<p>jamimom: thanks for the story about your nephew. That must have been awful to live through, but the happy ending is heartening! and gives me something to think about.</p>
<p>kirmum: as a matter of fact I got Pope's mailing address today with exactly that idea. Turns out he is writing a new edition right now, and I intend to give him some timely feedback.</p>
<p>I think there are two issues, and one would be more important to me than the other. The first issue, as Jamimom points out, is what really went on with your s. You need to rule out physical causes for his poor academic performance - there could be many reasons, an undiagnosed learning disability, depression that made him unable to cope, recreational drug use, anxiety, etc. Maybe it's a matter of maturity, adjustment, or time management. There might be things here that your s. would rather you didn't know about, so it might be difficult to find out. Did he ever say the work was too difficult for him? Have you seen any of the work he produced in the classes? </p>
<p>The other issue is with the administration of the school. It sounds like you've moved on and are well rid of the place. After one semester of a not so great experience, your s. probably isn't wild to go back there. Maybe it's best to spend your energy looking forward and trying to find the best place for your son to be now - either at a c.c. or "gap" type activities like others mention above.</p>
<p>I'm in the middle to a similar situation and can say that not all colleges behave badly. It strikes me as bad planning to have a visiting prof. teach a freshman seminar - they aren't likely to have enough experience with the school, and since they aren't sticking around, not much of a stake in things.</p>
<p>This is a huge bummer for you, OP, and I'm sorry you're having to go through it. Our experience seven or eight years ago was similar and yet annoying for the exact opposite reason, although both have to do with the apparent incompetence of the schools.</p>
<p>Our son started at Hampshire, also one of Pope's "Schools that Change Lives." Because they have no grades there, it wasn't until summer that we realized that while apparently attending class and doing a lot of the work, he had managed to neglect turning in final papers and projects in almost every class and his transcript would be nothing but incompletes. We spent the summer trying to bribe him to finish up. Nothing doing. Looking back, it was clear that this was his way of saying he didn't want to be there and didn't want to go back. </p>
<p>Our gripe was that the school DIDN'T kick him out! Or put him on probation. Or SOMETHING!</p>
<p>Although I always respect Jamimom's experience tremendously, I don't think the community college option is necessarily a mistake. I"m assuming he will be living at home, and you will be able to see what might have contributed to his problem, and guide him accordingly -- whether it's study skills, maturity, time management -- or some other issue. The young woman I talked about in a previous post, who also essentially got booted out after one semester, came home, got a part time job and is taking community college classes. Having the job really has helped with the time management as well as renewing her commitment to getting a college degree. She has gradually worked her way up to a full college load and hopes to transfer to a four year school, if not go back to the lac. I couldn't believe the jump in maturity level that took place as a result of the whole experience, but particularly from earning money and succeeding in a few classes before metaphorically climbing back on the horse.</p>
<p>Hampshire was one of the several CTCL we visited; he thought it was a little too crunchy for him, and we parents thought more structure would be better-- but I guess we ended up with too much structure, not enough flex. There must be a happy medium out there somewhere?</p>
<p>Sorry, I wasn't finished. Anyway....</p>
<p>We really wondered if Hampshire would let him camp in their dorms indefinitely as long as we paid the tuition! </p>
<p>I guess in both cases we were in the dark as parents, but then, the way they have things set up these days, they are only required to report things to the student, not to the parents. We're just supposed to write the checks!</p>
<p>Needless to say, we've never had very good feelings towards Hampshire after that. They keep mailing us requests for "alum donations" and asking our son, the "alum" if he'd like to come back and teach a Jan term class! </p>
<p>The ending isn't entirely unhappy, though, once we got past the idea of $30,000 for the three credits that transferred when he got his act together a couple of years later and started at the state school. (!)</p>
<p>He completed a double degree on the dean's list and is now looking at grad school. </p>
<p>Sometimes people have to go down the wrong road a ways to figure out which is the RIGHT road! I remember how miserable we were about the whole thing at that point though and send my sympathies. Soon, I bet, you'll be looking back on this as just a blip in his history.</p>
<p>Just curious lbr - but what were your son's high school grades and test scores like?</p>
<p>We have friends who were in the same boat as yours, Enjoyingthis. Their son was not performing at Cornell and the school did not do a thing. And the family was stretching the financial situation to the max sending this do nothing son there. Apparently the school was just as happy to take the tuition money indefinitely. They yanked him out, made him go to work and try to make up some courses, which he promptly flunked at a community college which was a pretty clear sign that he was just not interested in doing the work, and it was not the difficulty of the school. </p>
<p>Lefthandofadog, I agree with you. My concern would not be as much about the school other than to get some sort of a post mortem so that the experience is not repeated and some information is gained. I am a bit suspicious since my experience with colleges doing any "babysitting" even to the degree that you would think is just humanitarian or, to be pragmatic, good business, has not been that great. I have few expectations even from "Colleges That Change Lives". And there comes a point where the parent has to cut bait or fish, and when the kid is no longer at home, it's pretty clear what should be done if you are not to drive yourself nuts. If the kid cannot cope and it does not work out, then you need to regroup, reassess the kid and the situation, and figure out the next step. IT is not devastation, or a tragedy. Just an option that did not work out, and believe men, this happens a lot. A very large number of my oldest son's classmates dropped out, flunked out, were asked to leave college. The same with my generation. My best friend and roommate of two years, pretty much flunked out of college, transferred to Hampshire where that academic climate really worked for her. She is currently a PHD of some renown, a tenured professor, a minor celebrity, has published, is respected. So, you certainly can get over this. I nearly flunked out myself--took a semester leave, lost my scholarships, ended up with a poor transcript which I inadvertantly upgraded by taking numerous courses relating to my work experience and interests after I had graduated. When I thought I would go to law school which was a natural next step in the work I was doing, I applied to a number of law schools, very competitive ones including U of Chicago, and was accepted to them all even though my primary transcript stunk. Life has many twists and turns, and this is not going to ruin anyone's life unless the person permits it to do so, and if you are that type, the next disaster would get you if this did not happen. It is a nasty, gut wrenching experience, and no one likes it, but can be yield some good information if you let it. It is not supposed to be a "feel good" experience but you don't have to let it get you down.</p>
<p>He was a B-C student with enough occasional As that he ended HS with a 3.O average. He scored just over 1100 on the SAT; never a great test taker, so it was relatively good for him. He did, however, go to a public magnet school with a particular (science) academic focus, and I fear that his writing skills may have suffered a bit as a result. Ironically, he never got to take a science class at Guilford.</p>