Academic dismissal from Ivy League school

Parents Forum
1

<p>My son is a sophomore at an Ivy League school. He is studying engineering. He was placed on academic probation at the end of his freshman year because his GPA was below a 2.0. He worked hard this semester but his grades were below the required 2.1 in his major. He did get an A in a lit class but D and D+ in his engineering classes. </p>

<p>His probation officer is meeting with the committee on Monday. They may dismiss him. Or they may allow him to change majors, but he would have to achieve a 3.5 GPA in some other major. He is not confident in his ablility to hit a 3.5 GPA. </p>

<p>Should he just choose to leave on his own? Is there a strategy to this so that he doesn't have an academic dismissal on his record? What options will he have if he leaves? Will he even be able to get into other schools with a poor GPA? He is still interested in engineerring, but may need to do it somewhere else, or change majors all together.</p>

<p>We have discussed having him go to a community college for a semester or two to get his grades up but are not sure what kind of transfer options he would then have.</p>

<p>My son was in the bottom 10% of accepted students at his school. I guess this school was way too much of a stretch for him. He really did buckle down this semester, went to office hours, etc but just performed poorly on the tests. Even if he changed his major to biology which also interests him, with all of the pre med majors there, getting a 3.5 GPA just may not be within his ability.</p>

<p>Should he stay put and try to raise his GPA or should he leave now ( or take some time off).</p>

<p>I think he is okay with leaving provided he can continue his education somewhere. I just worry that if he goes to a community college, he won't be able to transfer to a 4 year school when he needs to. What is the best way to proceed?</p>

<p>Is there anything he should ask for or say to his probation officer for Monday. He is allowed to write a letter.</p>

<p>Please help!</p>

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<p>This is a tough situation. I’m sorry. </p>

<p>I often think the solution for situations like this is to take fewer courses and just take longer to graduate. Focus on learning the material well not on getting through it within a specific time frame. Overloading can prevent one from obtaining a thorough grasp of material that is crucial for follow-on courses. </p>

<p>That ship has probably sailed at the Ivy. </p>

<p>I’ve been looking and so far, even the schools with the easiest admissions requirements (UKansas, Iowa State, Arizona State) won’t take your S. </p>

<p>I think community college is a viable option. I would have him repeat all technical courses that he got less than a B. Maybe even taking less than a full load at first. When he’s eligible for his associates degree, many colleges will take him automatically and he can continue. </p>

<p>It’s a long road, but overcoming failure is part of life, and he should stay determined.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the info. Will any schools consider the fact that he was studying engineering at an Ivy and provide some leeway? </p>

<p>Is there something we should ask for from the school— allow him to transferor withdraw to. Take classes at a community college so he does not have an academic dismissal on his record?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>It seems to me that many Ivies will stick with a student, one way or the other, even in pretty extreme situations (barring criminal acts). They might ask him to leave for a semester or two though.</p>

<p>If he got an A in literature, why doesn’t he consider switching to a humanities major? Why did he persist in engineering when he wasn’t able to do well? Are there any humanities or social science majors that he might be interested in?</p>

<p>Not sure engineering will go well anywhere else. Where did the idea for the engineering major come from? Does he know he can major in something he enjoys and worry about career later?</p>

<p>I think his best bet is to convince the committee that he understands he cannot succeed in engineering and tell them that he wants to stay, will do whatever they ask of him, and that he will change his major to a subject he can succeed in.</p>

<p>Alternatively, he can leave and go to cc, do two years, then apply to the state university or a state college.</p>

<p>Is he attached to friends where he is? Are there other positives? Is there something else going on, like depression? Mitigating or extenuating circumstances that he can plead with the committee? There isn’t really enough information to advise.</p>

<p>Was he admitted based on academics or is he an athlete or have some other “hook”? Was he well prepared? Many students don’t do well the first year but blossom later. But he went further than not doing well and clearly isn’t blossoming. Still, the fact that you say he was in the bottom 10% (how do you know that?) but was admitted, says that someone at the school believed in him.</p>

<p>If he has any kind of disability (ADHD, depression, anxiety, learning disability, health challenges) he could try to get an accommodation of reduced course load through the disabilities office, with documentation from a professional. Not sure if that is relevant but throwing it in.</p>

<p>If the place is stressful, leaving is fine, but it would be hard to judge that if he is still doing a major that he is not able to succeed in. It is really up to him whether to fight to stay or not. To be honest, I have one who left a school and never looked back, and another who would crawl to class to stay where she is. Sometimes personality is really crucial to these decisions and only your son can really know. Maybe a few sessions with a therapist on campus would help him clarify (if not too late). Good luck.</p>

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<p>

Given the very low GPA, I’m afraid that there won’t be much leeway. (It did not help my son that he obtained C’s & D’s in grade 9 honors courses at a strong school.).</p>

<p>Clearly your son is intelligent, or he wouldn’t have been admitted to an Ivy school. That said, I’d respectfully suggest that he re-evaluate his academic direction. What is he truly passionate about? It sounds as tho’ it may not be engineering. Going forward, he should leverage his passions.</p>

<p>I wish you both well.</p>

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<p>Cross-posted.</p>

<p>No way to get rid of the record, most likely. Unless there is a medical reason to wipe the slate clean for the fall 2013 semester, or something like that. Your son should discuss all this with his resources at the school. How to mitigate damage.</p>

<p>He will be obligated to provide the transcript from this school whenever he applies somewhere else and in any circumstance where he is asked for records from “all schools attended.”</p>

<p>But, when he attends another school his GPA starts fresh. Clean slate.</p>

<p>Eventually, when a few years pass, if he has good records elsewhere, the poor GPA at the Ivy will recede in importance and seem like a distant memory.</p>

<p>I strongly believe there are no disasters in life. He can fight to stay, or leave and pursue other paths, but whatever he does, be confident that his life will work out and convey that. It is true, and I think we parents can help most by offering both sympathy and strong faith in their eventually finding a path.</p>

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<p>I’ve been searching old threads. </p>

<p>At the end of this thread, there is a list of colleges that might be more forgiving
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/transfer-students/833796-schools-do-_not-require-good-standing-previous-university.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/transfer-students/833796-schools-do-_not-require-good-standing-previous-university.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>If they let him stay, he should switch to a humanities major. He did well in his lit class, so clearly, this is where his natural abilities lie. It makes sense for him to pursue a degree in an area where he is naturally strong, rather than struggling through engineering courses and feeling like a failure.</p>

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<p>unfortunately, STEM majors are extremely competitive, with many courses being graded on a curve. Many/most Ivy Frosh have already aced AP Calc BC, AP Chem, AP Bio and AP Physics. Thus, they matriculate with extremely strong backgrounds. Thus, starting a school where one is in the bottom decile will not generally bode well, particularly in Eng, which is math heavy. </p>

<p>If he is ready to give up Eng, I’d see if he can stay as a another major, or perhaps take a semester off, attend your local judo, earn A’s and return next fall with some transfer credits.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>To my knowledge (admittedly based mostly on anecdotal evidence), ivy league schools do NOT want students to fail out and are often willing to go to great lengths to protect their high graduation and retention rates. </p>

<p>I think he should tell his officer that he plans to switch majors to a less mathematically demanding field (engineering really is hard, and humanities tend to be much more forgiving), and that if the committee considers it a good idea, he’d be willing to take a term off and take classes at a CC before returning next fall. </p>

<p>I think if he presents his case well and emphasizes that he has been working hard but now recognizes that engineering isn’t for him, the school will let him stay. And I do think he should try to stay at the ivy if possible, unless there are significant social problems as well. Because of the large number of academic resources at his disposal at the ivy (and likely grade inflation as well), it might actually be easier for him to succeed there than at a state college.</p>

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<p>I think his best option is to stay at the Ivy and take easier courses next semester to get his GPA up. Then he can try to transfer. I think he’ll have better transfer options if he can demonstrate that he can succeed in other course work and has a somewhat better GPA.</p>

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<p>The lit classes that the engineers take are very easy classes just to fulfill the requirements. He has no interest in a lit or humanities major due to wanting good job placement and a useful degree.</p>

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<p>He did take all of the high school AP STEM classes and did well in all of them, but it seems to be the higher level courses with the cutthroat competition of an Ivy League that got the better of him. He is still interested in engineering and is not ready to give it up yet. He is extremely passionate about all areas of STEM and thus wants to pursue a degree in it.</p>

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<p>Sounds like your son has been misinformed about the value/usefulness of lit and humanities degrees. Hopefully, his Ivy is better informed and can advise him well regarding all of his options.</p>

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<p>"He has no interest in a lit or humanities major due to wanting good job placement and a useful degree. "</p>

<p>Where is this kind of thinking coming from? It is very misguided and reflects a somewhat unsophisticated understanding of the goal of a top notch education.</p>

<p>But it is also what I suspected, considering the fact that he persisted in pursuing engineering despite his freshman struggles.</p>

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<p>So sorry to hear that you’re going thru this.</p>

<p>*My son was in the bottom 10% of accepted students at his school. I guess this school was way too much of a stretch for him. </p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Oh wow. Was he an athlete? What was his hook? </p>

<p>I’m surprised that an ivy would let a bottom 10% into eng’g. Schools really shouldn’t do this.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>He really did buckle down this semester, went to office hours, etc but just performed poorly on the tests. </p>

<p>Even if he changed his major to biology which also interests him, with all of the pre med majors there, getting a 3.5 GPA just may not be within his ability.*</p>

<p>Bio isn’t a useful major unless you’re going to med school…and with his GPA, that wouldn’t be likely. Without med school, a bio degree can be almost useless. </p>

<p>What is he strong in?</p>

<p>Other schools aren’t going to give him slack because his grades were from an ivy. Eng’g is hard everywhere.</p>

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<p>The info as posted in this thread do not seem to add up. As others in the thread have indicated the ivies tend to be pretty good about finding a place for current students to land and graduate from the schools. The 3.5 GPA requirement looks odd. I find it hard to believe any new major would require a 3.5 on an ongoing basis. Or is that what is required next semester to get the cumulative GPA up to the required minimum? If so, maybe some time to reach the minimum GPA can be negotiated. Have you seen the 3.5 GPA requirement or only heard it second hand through your on? If it were me I’d want to see the exact message from the school. </p>

<p>3ToGo … ivy league engineering grad (Cornell). In my time about 1/3 of the engineering students at Cornell did not get engineering degrees … and virtually all of those who did not get engineering degrees transferred to other colleges within the University and graduated.</p>

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<p>In my time about 1/3 of the engineering students at Cornell did not get engineering degrees</p>

<p>That’s probably quite common. The first year or two of classes are weeders.</p>

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<p>I would not recommend trying to transfer at this time. Most Ivy League colleges will give a struggling student a second chance. If your son was on academic probation and failed to achieve a satisfactory GPA last semester, the college may ask him to withdraw, but may allow him to return after a year. If he winds up taking a year off, he should spend that time constructively, perhaps working a job and taking a course or two at a community college to shore up his academic gaps. Often a year away from high powered college gives a student perspective on his life and encouragement to return to the more competitive academic environment. In many cases motivation is the crucial element for academic success and a year off can be highly motivating.</p>

<p>I have seen many students come to college convinced that STEM degrees are the only route to employment. That view simply is wrong! History majors, English majors, political science majors, and economics majors all can go on to happy productive lives, especially those from highly selective colleges. If your son is not cut out for engineering, he should major in what he is good at.</p>

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<p>Sorry to be blunt, but an Ivy grad with a humanities major and a good GPA is probably going to do better in the job market than an engineering grad carrying a D average. </p>

<p>If he’s determined to continue in engineering despite the poor start, he might want to transfer to a community college for a year to get his grades up, then transfer to your state flagship. It may take a bit longer to complete the requirements for an engineering degree, but it sounds like he’s not going to get there at his Ivy. But don’t expect the engineering program at your state flagship to be a cakewalk. Engineering is just hard, and there’s no particular reason to think it’s harder at an Ivy than elsewhere; they’re studying the same things. There are more extremely bright and talented students at the Ivy, but the classes are generally graded on a more generous curve. </p>

<p>He needs to figure out why he’s gotten off to such a poor start in engineering, and work on correcting those problems. And I’m not entirely buying the “cutthroat competition” idea. Ivy students tend to be high achievers and sometimes overachievers, academic workloads can be demanding, and there certainly is a competitive aspect to student life. But the competition at most Ivies tends to be understated, not “cutthroat”; the expectation is that everyone will succeed. And it’s somewhat unusual for a kid who excelled at STEM subjects in HS to fall flat on his face in STEM subjects in college. I’d question whether the problems might be less academic (i.e., inability to do the work) and more social or psychological–e.g., too busy socializing to actually put in the required work, or feeling socially isolated and unhappy and consequently underperforming academically, or so intimidated by the institution and his extremely talented classmates that he psychs himself out and “chokes” on the exams. Whatever it is, I think he needs to get to the bottom of it and work on correcting it if he expects different results elsewhere.</p>