<p>NYMomof2,
I sent you a private message (PM).</p>
<p>I have not read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone has given this info already.</p>
<p>The CTY tip has about the highest SAT requirements. Meanwhile, however, there are other talent search programs that require lower scores. Usually one does not have to be in the talent search region to apply for those programs.</p>
<p>Do a Google search for "talent search" "SAT" "summer program" and you should be to find other programs that your son can qualify for. These include some weekend programs offered by Duke's TIP program at various colleges ranging from Duke to colleges in Kansas, Texas and Florida.</p>
<p>My son did summer programs TIP and CTY, and weekend programs through TIP in two locations, and found all excellent.</p>
<p>Today is the registration deadline for the January SAT. My son is insisting on re-taking it. We discussed it last night, and I told him that I didn't see any reason to take it again. He is adamant that he wants to get 700 on the math before his 13th birthday (in February). I told him that his scores could well go down instead of up, and that there was no reason to think that he could improve significantly without considerable preparation. He said that he wants to study, and mentioned the SET program again, but my impression is that he sees this as a challenge and is actually looking forward to it. I told him that I thought spending time preparing for the SAT was a very bad use of his time. He asked me to respect his wishes. I agreed to register him for the test, but told him that any studying would be up to him to do on his own. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get around to studying, given his organizational and time management problems, but then again he might. If he does, it will be interesting to see whether he can significantly improve his scores.</p>
<p>Nymom:</p>
<p>He sounds like he really wants to beat the 700. There's nothing really magical in that score, just a psychological hurdle. As long as he understands that his score might go down owing to circumstances, let him re-take. Good luck to him!</p>
<p>An alternative to CTY is the Duke TIP program. They are quite similar, but Duke has more options for score cut-offs.</p>
<p>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
DO NOT TAKE THE COMPUTER TEST.
I took the computer test when I was 12 (I'm 16 now) and I regretted it. I scored a 560 math, 700 Verbal, but what is so horrible about the computer test is that I was not allowed to go back and check my answers! You have to go along 1 problem at a time, and that's that! I did do well on Verbal, but what irks me is that I could have done even better had I been able to go back...I distinctly remember realizing the answer to a certain question right after I pressed submit. SO do not under any circumstances encourage your child to take a computer test. Paper is hard enough; dealing with a whole new interface is even more difficult. Your son, onesharon, should stick with the paper. He seems to be really smart, so don't worry too much. After all, let me tell you...I did CTY after 5th and 6th grades. They were wonderful experiences, yes, but now I kind of regret it. They cost so much, and they don't even count for college. Encourage your son to look into other, equally great programs, that don't require some arbitrary test scores. There are plenty!</p>
<p>Yes, I have heard that TIP is great, several of my friends went and enjoyed it a lot. So that's the kids' perspective!
Also, about SET, for NYMom. If your son really wants to take the test again, let him. I don't remember doing horribly well on verbal standardized tests before I was 12, but on the SAT1 I got to 700 and qualified for SET, which is a great experience. You get a scholarship to a local college course, and SET sends out information/recommendations to colleges of your choice when you get to the age to apply for college. I really think that if your son is talented, he can do it. Really, the only harm I can see is that money is "wasted." Because you are not pushing him, there isn't that problem of pushy parenting. So do register! He needn't study for hours (that's what high school is for!), but encourage him to take a practice math section or two, and it'll only be for the better. It certainly can't hurt him if he wants to do it.</p>
<p>Thanks, Jimbob. Did SET help you find mentors? I'm actually not sure that my son belongs in SET, but if he wants to try, I won't stand in his way. I don't think he has a great chance of getting the 700 now that the math section assumes knowledge of material up to 11th grade. But maybe he'll study and manage to do it. In any case, as you say, it can't hurt him and he is certainly under no pressure.</p>
<p>Momof3sons, I sent you a reply (by PM).</p>
<p>Nymom:</p>
<p>just remember that the SAT math section now contains 3-5 Alg-II problems. Under the 1999 recentering, a student could miss one math problem and still obtain an 800 on math. But, this does not appear to be the case today, at least based on our cc posters. Missing one math problem on the 'new' SAT = 770/780 depending on normalization. Thus, to exceed 700+, a student can miss only 2-3 bubbles out of the 80 questions. If you son misses all the Alg II problems, 700 may not be possible, particularly if he happens to receive the version with 5 Alg II problems. Hopefully, CTY will begin to recognize a significant difference in tests. Good luck.</p>
<p>Thank you, bluebayou. My sense is that my son could learn to do those problems given some prep time. But it doesn't seem likely to me that he could miss as few as 2 or 3. In the practice tests he did, he was not able to finish every section. </p>
<p>On the SET website there was until recently a statement in the FAQ that they might change the threshold when they saw how HS students did on it; I think the expression was "the new norms for HS seniors". Now that statement has been changed, and they say that they are sticking to the 700 threshold for now. My guess is that they will have significantly fewer kids qualifying for SET now, and I would be willing to bet that they will end up changing the threshold at some point.</p>
<p>I think the SET threshold on the math side will stay right where it has been, based on the SET</a> FAQ on the JHU-CTY Web site. SET is already serving a population of a few hundred young people per year who attain the qualifying scores, mostly from the JHU-CTY talent search region (where invitation to SET is automatic for young people who attain the required scores) and also from other talent search regions if the parents know to report the scores to JHU-CTY. </p>
<p>Here is a link to a page linking to publications about the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth subset of SET: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Peabody/SMPY/PDFpublications.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Peabody/SMPY/PDFpublications.htm</a> </p>
<p>As the page notes, if those documents download slowly for you (the server that hosts them is SLOW), you can request postal mail copies. Or you can look them up at your favorite academic library, as I have on occasion. </p>
<p>More generally, JHU-CTY has always set up its talent search program, SET, and the summer programs for young people who go beyond the school curriculum. Doing well in a previous class is wonderful, and it is one issue of relevance to a subseqent teacher of the same student. But the rationale for the talent searches and the specialized summer programs is to find young people who may very well be NONcompliant in class because they are bored and need a greater challenge.</p>
<p>tokenadult, The SET FAQ uses the phrase, "for the time being". My prediction is that they will end up lowering the threshold, perhaps by as many as 50 points. As far as I can tell it will be much harder for a given 12-year-old to get a 700 on the new math SAT than it was on the old one. If they see a drop in the number of kids who qualify this year, then it would make sense to adjust the math threshold. I imagine it will take an entire year to evaluate the new test as a means of identifying mathematically talented pre-teens.</p>
<p>I could, of course, be entirely wrong!</p>
<p>My 12 yr old daughter received a 670 Math on December SAT without any preparation and now we are wondering if the SET program is worth trying for. Are the benefits worth the stress of doing the SAT's again in January with some preparation this time?</p>
<p>CTmum:</p>
<p>It really depends on your location and what you would like out of SET. Your D's score qualifies her for the CTY programs already (congrats, this is a great score). A SET qualifier can receive a scholarship worth one college course at a nearby college. In our S's case, the scholarship, worth $2k, could only be used at the BU Academy which is a high school with a tuition of $20k. We decided to keep our S in public school, so did not make use of the $2k scholarship. Others, however, have been able to take a summer class at their local college or university.
In terms of mentoring, S was not assigned to anyone. But we live in a university town, and he was able to take college courses. There was (is) no dearth of university profs he could approach if he wanted to.
So the benefits of SET were quite limited for my S, but may be far more valuable for another student.</p>
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I just saw this thread on CTY. My children have been involved with CTY for over 8 years now (elementary,middle, and high). Have you considered the ACT for your children? In my research I have found that a number of children performed better on the ACT than the SAT. CTY will accept scores from either examination now.</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>