<p>You will find a lot of advice here on 3/2 threads, and most advise against it due to cost and many other factors. There are a lot of great schools in the midwest that may also meet his needs. I agree that the money talk is necessary, as is digging into graduate success.</p>
<p>As we drove on campus in the Fall of her junior year, my D said “I want to go here”. I told her that she had to at least look at more schools. She looked at about 15 schools, applied and was accepted at 7. She just finished he 1st semester at the school she wanted to go to when she was a Junior. She told me “There is neve a day that I regret my decision to go here. I love it every day.”</p>
<p>The problem with the “I will just transfer” attitude if it doesn’t work out is that he will likely NOT get merit aid wherever he transfers to. Merit aid is heavily weighted toward freshman candidates so the school can draw in the freshman class it wants. Transfer students rarely get significant merit aid. So it is not a “no harm, no foul” thing if he makes the wrong decision.</p>
<p>Don’t know if it helps but I made up my mind on where I was going to go to college in the 8th grade. I didn’t apply or look anywhere else, got a full ride on National Merit, and I’ve been very happy with my decision. They accepted me in early October of senior year as well so I got to avoid pretty much all of the application stress. I’m starting to feel that stress now that I’m applying to grad schools…</p>
<p>And the school I go to now only has a 4 year graduation rate of 24% and still less than 50% for 6 years…but it’s a huge state university with plenty of research opportunities and I’m graduating right on time next semester. </p>
<p>Obviously can’t say every situation works out like this but mine did.</p>
<p>I don’t think you should just let him be. Junior year is a very intense year for most kids, between harder courses and MANY SAT or ACT tests. In my opinion, the course load only gets to be more difficult senior year. If you wait too long to visit schools then you may find yourself out of time. </p>
<p>D2 just finished with her college application process. We were a lot more relax second time around because planned out her college visits, testing schedule, essay writing and getting recommendation letters. She changed her mind on her top 3 choices after visiting.</p>
<p>We didn’t have to worry about FA, but still there were many things to consider - location, student body, size, social life, and most importantly - life after college (what could that diploma do for D2). There is no way I would pay 250K for a diploma which would not help her in the long run.</p>
<p>Even with our careful planning, there were times when we felt stressed due to lack of time. If she had not been an active participant, I don’t think we could have gotten everything done.</p>
<p>I do not believe having a list of 2 schools is sufficient, whether you need FA or not. I also think it is not a good strategy to depend on transfer as a back up plan.</p>
<p>You could build in some “while we’re here” visits. Visit a city with a college that you think is worth a look but don’t let that be the only purpose of the visit. Make it a fun weekend, see a sporting event or attraction or visit a friend or relative and also stop by a school. Chicago? Northwestern. Cleveland (Rock and Roll Hall of Fame)? Case Western and perhaps nearby Mount Union which is in the unusual category of small college with engineering programs (albeit fairly new engineering programs).</p>
<p>I also do not think that two schools is enough. I also agree that it is not good to “plan” on transferring. Transferring is a pain. Although I have to say it is probably not as bad as I used to think. With my first kid, I had a lot of angst about her college decision. (What if she changed her mind? What if the schools just was not right for her? It was so far away!) Then I saw a few of her friends transfer after freshman year or after sophomore year and everything turned out fine. If a kids chooses a school he thinks he really loves (a school that the family can afford), and then later decides it is really not right for him/her, transferring is okay. (It often likely delay graduation.)</p>
<p>One piece of advice. If your son would like to earn a bachelor’s degree in engineering, ask the school “Looking at spring 2009 2010 2011, how many students left after their third year here to do the last two years in engineering somewhere else?” You might find that no one did. You might find that only one or two people did. This might make him look at the 3-2 program differently.</p>
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<p>Call me PushyMom, but ITA with this. Two schools is simply not enough. Transferring as plan B is simply a bad idea for all of the reasons cited above, plus the fact that an unhappy student often finds it difficult to maintain a GPA good enough to make him attractive to the transfer target. And if he’s only ever seen two schools, how is going to know that he would prefer another one?</p>
<p>My H is an example of a guy who got very poor guidance around this decision, and ended up transferring TWICE. Each time he followed the path of least resistance, and picked a school for dumb reasons. He never really went to a school that fully suited him, which he easily could have done.</p>
<p>I think you ought to take him to visit two or three schools during February break. You don’t have to engage in one of those “If It’s Tuesday Morning it must be School X” marathons. One school per day, with the tour, info session, and sitting in on a class, is plenty.</p>
<p>Many boys are reluctant to get engaged in the college search process, for some reason. One could psychologize about it indefinitely. The bottom line is that they need a parental push at the right time, IMHO.</p>
<p>BTW, as someone suggested above, I found that leaving the Yale Daily News Insider’s Guide to the Colleges on the coffee table was an excellent strategy. :)</p>
<p>My son was the same way. What I did is spend some time researching schools that ‘I’ thought might be a good fit, had the right academic programs and that we could afford. I went ahead and scheduled visits to those schools and, of course. dragged my son along with me. I found that I had to take the initiative with my son. The more schools you both look at, the more information you will have to make the decision. After looking at 3 or 4 schools you might end up back at the first one you looked at…but that’s perfectly fine. He will be happy and you will feel better knowing you looked at several different schools before coming to a decision.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think you are starting too soon. You will need spring of his junior year to visit a couple of schools. Not sure how your high school is, but ours wanted most of the applications done by Oct. 1 of senior year. Plus, many schools have early application options that (sometimes) increase chances of acceptance - so you will want to have a pretty good idea of what schools he will be applying to by the end of the summer.</p>
<p>*The school he really likes so far is Blackburn College in Illinois. He says he really likes the “laid back atmosphere” of it there. It is probably more affordable for us than a state school like the U of I because I think he would qualify for some financial/merit aid there. </p>
<p>He “thinks” he is interested in engineering or math and has always excelled in math.
*</p>
<p>Is your son aware that Blackburn doesn’t have an Engineering degree? It can only offer a 3-2 program…which means you go to Blackburn for 3 years, and then another school for 2 years. Doesn’t seem worth it. And also the additional cost. 
I don’t think any scholarship offer from Blackburn would apply to the “transfer school”. That could be a big issue.</p>
<p>*allow participants to earn undergraduate degrees in both engineering and a liberal arts area. Participants typically spend three or four years at a liberal arts institution and four semesters at the Sever Institute of Technology of the School of Engineering and Applied Science at Washington University. *</p>
<p>*are we safe to apply during most of his senior year? *</p>
<p>Not if you’re expecting/wanting merit scholarships. Many schools that give good merit have scholarship deadlines of Nov 15 thru mid Dec. Many have Dec 1st scholarship deadlines.</p>
<p>A lot of junior boys are hesitant to explore colleges. With my older son, I just booked some tours and said, “we’re going”. While my son was a junior, my interest was first getting him just “used” to various colleges…comfortable with the campus, etc. We would arrive early, eat breakfast at a cool off-campus hangout, take the campus tour, eat somewhere on campus. Visit more of the school and the off campus surroundings…and then eat again at some other cool place off campus. (lots of eating…lol)</p>
<p>Your son may fear the competitive spirit at UIUC. So, visiting some other schools is a good idea. Once your son has test scores, you’ll have a better idea of where he’d get the best merit scholarships (have him take both the ACT and SAT).</p>
<p>*The problem with the “I will just transfer” attitude if it doesn’t work out is that **he will likely NOT get merit aid wherever he transfers to. Merit aid is heavily weighted toward freshman candidates **so the school can draw in the freshman class it wants. Transfer students rarely get significant merit aid. So it is not a “no harm, no foul” thing if he makes the wrong decision. *</p>
<p>**This is a painful truth that many learn. ** They try to transfer and then find out that their new school isn’t affordable because transfer students usually get lousy aid and lousy scholarships (or no scholarships at all).</p>
<p>I also agree with old fort. Jr year is the year. I took the bull by the horns and started finding choices for my s. He is also going in as engineering. Most schools require you apply to the specific school and they have different acceptance rates than what’s published. I would be surprised that a school that size had engineering. When we did tours we’d also do the engineering tours as well. As we talked through it ds started realizing his must haves and likes. From there I came up with the lists and he would check out the websites. Spring break we did a road trip that clarified what he liked and didn’t. We had our list ready by the end of summer. He wasn’t gun ho into it but I prodded him along. He may say nagged. However all his apps were in and done by the end of October and he asked for lor at the end of jr year. If I wasn’t as organized we’d be in a panic right now. I just don’t think some kids, and it seems to be boys are into this process as we’d like, but it doesn’t mean we sit back and let them flounder either.</p>
<p>I agree that you should address this issue next year.</p>
<p>His feelings may change by then, once he sees what his friends are doing, for example.</p>
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<p>Agreee with oldfort. Also, senior year is so hectic in terms of getting out those applications, and perhaps going on interviews. I don’t think that you are early in the process. Yes, your son will change and grow. Perhaps some schools will fall off his list and a few might be added on. That’s okay.</p>
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<p>We did this too. We also told our children that they are free to explore and add to the list. </p>
<p>Our kids visited many schools and sometimes they did not want to go. We did also make some visits more fun (esp. if younger child was with us) by visiting an amusement park (not this time of year), and fun places for dinner.</p>
<p>As a suggestion, some young men would want to visit more if they could see a football/basketball game either at one of the schools being visited or a professional team. If you want your son going to a small school, I suggest that you stay away from the rah rah sports environment at a big U because the small schools might just be dropped from his list!!!</p>
<p>At mid-Junior year in our search, son had looked at one school and didn’t like it. He looked at one in the winter and didn’t like it. Spring break we looked at 4 schools, and he only liked one of them. By September he decided the winter school was OK, he looked at two on one day that month, and liked one of them. Now he is applying to 3 schools; two safeties and a reach. All rural. All he would be happy to attend. All we would be happy for him to attend. Spring vacation is when you should take him to visit schools that are affordable and have his major. Visit only one per day, don’t go during open house days (madness), and mix in fun stuff to do in between. Chances are, he will find another school or two to apply to. The 3 safety, 3 match, 3 reach is a suggestion not a mantra. We couldn’t find any affordable matches (unless you count the honors programs at the safeties).</p>
<p>Graduation rate doesn’t mean it’s a bad school if it’s low. It could be bc kids couldn’t handle the work load and drop out or transfer. New College of FL is a small LAC and is an excellent college. Though it has that laid-back hippie vibe it is a highly demanding school that expects a lot from students. I think the graduation rate is 45 or 50% but many can’t handle the work. The ones who do graduate are prepared for graduate school and get into top grad schools of their choice.
So yeah don’t scratch whatever LAC he’s leaning towards off the list. Do a little research on why that particular college has a low graduation rate.</p>
<p>Is your son interested in going far from home? I would find this out first. If not, no big deal. Just drag him to some local LACs and universities for very short visits. If you are from IL, take him to either SIU campus as they both have engineering or Bradley. Knox might be a good LAC to look at.</p>
<p>If you are from the MO side, try MO S & T for engineering. You might also look at Truman State for a larger LAC.</p>
<p>If he is willing to travel just a bit, try Iowa State University. The OOS tuition,fees,room, and board total is only $27,000 per year.</p>
<p>Don’t require him to have safety, matches, and reaches. If he finds a place that he likes and you are satisfied with after just 4 visits then so be it. Assuming of course that you know he will be admitted and you can afford it.</p>
<p>Excellent tips, thanks!</p>
<p>We are hoping to keep him within driving distance so all of Illinois and every surrounding state are where we are looking. We will definitely be checking out SIU and Knox. </p>
<p>I will have to look further into the whole 3/2 program - it sounds like it could be a problem later, even though it sounds easy in the brochures and on the school websites. Is there a way to check success rates of these programs for different schools? </p>
<p>Many thanks again.</p>
<p>One other thing to consider is what is the employment rate of graduates, after all, engineering is pre-professional.</p>
<p>I agree to back burner until spring or early summer. But I will say some kids are decisive. They make a decision and never look back. Not all kids need the whole country approach. If he’s interested in engineering (as my 3rd is) all I’m doing is helping him narrow his search to colleges that have ABET accredited programs and fortunately there are big and small within his comfort region/travel zone which for him is no more than a 12 hour drive or one plane flight…he’s seen his brothers go 2 day drives and 3 plane distances and get screwed up and stuck on more than one holiday trip home. </p>
<p>Mine’s got two schools, one huge and one small that he’s “willing” to apply to but we’re going to go on a look see and add 2 more, one more big and one more small…but he’ll be a four and done applicant, I know this with certainty. Quantity of apps is not always necessary if you’re comfortable with the potential financial costs of all of the apps.</p>
<p>Yes, and he is not even sure this is what he wants to do. </p>
<p>It has been suggested by an engineer friend that all he may really need in order to get a job is a good math degree. Basically he is completely undecided about schools, jobs and future in general (beyond lunch) so I am trying to pull some ideas out of him. Grrrr…</p>
<p>This is the reason I am still looking at a lot of LAC’s in addition to the science and engineering schools. </p>
<p>I know that this will all work out, I really don’t want to push him into a school/career/anything that he would not be happy with, I just want him to have some good options when he’s ready to talk about it.</p>