<p>My ds is trying to decide between two schools. One is in-state LAC (St Mary's of Md) and it is a pretty good school that he could graduate from debt free (and have extra $ for overseas semester, not need to work during school year, etc). The other school is a top LAC in the mid-west (Grinnell) that he will need to take out $5000 a year in loans to attend (and we will pay about $11000 from our income a year (doable for us)- the rest we have saved or is scholarship $). He will also need to work part-time (10 hours a week - job assured). His big question is "Are the loans worth being surrounded by very intelligent peers for 4 years?". He, himself, is a very intelligent, well read, contemplative kind of a guy. I am trying to present pro's and con's of each decision without unduly influencing him (after all, it is his call in the end). He comes from a high school where the culture is not very academic and his last 4 years have not always been stimulating or challenging (Ha! major understatement). Any thoughts or advice?</p>
<p>Have you visited both?</p>
<p>There is a substantial body of research that shows that the selectivity of an institution has little or no effect on the educational attainment of its students. In any event, with a middle 50% ACT range of 24-29, St. Mary’s surely has a good number of smart and academically oriented kids.</p>
<p>Graduating with $25,000 in debt is reasonable for most students, as is working 10 hrs a week.
I think it is good for students to have “some skin”, in the game & I also think it can be worth it to attend a school where students talk about what happened inside the classroom, outside of class.</p>
<p>This is with the assumption that you can make the financial commitment, but it can mean a lot for your son to have a chance to find his peers.</p>
<p>Has he checked the course offerings at each school to see that they match his academic interests? The small size of LACs means that they often cannot cover everything in enough depth to be suitable for students majoring in the subjects.</p>
<p>Peer group can depend on major. Some majors have a reputation of attracting the most intellectually oriented students, while others have the opposite reputation, though there is likely some variation between colleges as to which majors these are.</p>
<p>I’m assuming he’s visited both Us & likes them both similiarly? For some, the ruralness of Grinnell can be a major drawback (S drove around a few Rochester schools & realized he REALLY DISLIKES rural & is more of an urban person–had been thinking about Grinnell at one point as well). Is the other campus more urban? Has he been in a similar setting–urban or rural? Does he look forward to the adjustment? Has he spoken with anyone–profs or students–in his proposed major? Are there research opportunities for undergrads in his field at both Us?</p>
<p>Many kids at Grinnell do a term/year abroad. Will this be do-able for him, if he decides he wants to as well?</p>
<p>Sounds like there are two great options–has he drawn up a list of pros & cons for each U?</p>
<p>Agree with those who say he should look carefully at the course selection, the involvement/investment of the students in their academics, the environs aand the overall “fit”. It isn’t always about the money. Thats important, but if you can afford to look at both, then do. If you cannot afford to, then follow the money trail. But I agree, $20K in debt is not bad. Debt free is better, but if he can afford to look at the options, then its worth it, especially if he felt understimulated in the academic atmosphere of HS. Good luck!</p>
<p>Has he visited both? Did he prefer one? The biggest measure of “fit” my kids had was looking at the students who attended the schools. They’ve ended up picking the college where they thought the kids looked like a group they’d fit in with. I think that’s as good a strategy as any. (Two in college so far and both happy with their choices.)</p>
<p>Have you been on the Grinnell forum “Why Grinnell” thread? If that’s him and it feels doable for your family it could be his place. Did he visit? It’s usually an all or nothing response from a visit, I understand, either their place and people or “get me out of here”. If it is doable for your family, it could be good to put your fish in the water for a change - comparative long term job success research aside.</p>
<p>I agree–living in MD and going to Grinnell might be a big shock. Grinnell is really in the middle of no where Iowa. Personally our son hated Grinnell but others, obviously, like it just fine. Have you also factored in travel costs. He would have to fly into Des Moines, and as a regional airport, tends to have a lot higher flight costs. Then he would have to get from Des Moines to Grinnell.</p>
<p>Personally, if he doesn’t have to go into debt and he likes St. Mary’s, I would send him there unless the program he wants isn’t up to snuff.</p>
<p>St. Mary’s is also in the middle of nowhere. That being said, as you are probably aware, St. Mary’s bills itself as an “honors college,” and my experience has been that the kids who go there are quite smart. I think they probably would be more accomplished at Grinnell, but not having to work 10 hours a week, as well as saving a lot of money in general, makes St. Mary’s a very attractive deal. Also, it has a very nice campus.</p>
<p>There is a HUGE difference being in the “middle of nowhere” in MD vs the Middle of nowhere Iowa. St. Mary’s is 2 hours from Washington, DC, Grinnell is 2 hours from Des Moines–population 150,000 and NOTHING in between. It’s hard to even find a gas station between the two spots.</p>
<p>Now, looking at the satellite view on Google maps, COOL campus for St. Mary’s.</p>
<p>I grew up in Iowa. Grinnell really is in the middle of nowhere. Now, during school, his world may be his campus, and that would be great. But for a kid from MD that might still be tough. </p>
<p>I agree with ucbalumnus that if he is undecided in major, the breadth of his in-state public might be more helpful than a deep but small curriculum offering at an LAC. My D is going to an LAC with no clear major and I am nervous about that. I was the overruled person in our house in suggesting a slightly bigger instate public might give her more options. </p>
<p>I agree that with these two options, fit and course offerings are the major factors, with debt slightly less important (but not unimportant).</p>
<p>I’d say depends on the program. It makes a lot of difference between a good progam and a mediocre program. I went to a mediocre MBA program for free as company paid for it. It did not do anything for me either in enrichment or career wise.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, St. Mary’s is essentially an in-state public LAC–it’s small.</p>
<p>A month or so ago I was driving through Grinnell (I live fairly close by) on a beautiful Saturday afternoon and drove by campus. Sitting on the roof of one dorm, hanging out and talking, about a dozen or so students. If you go to Grinnell, you will truly experience a ‘campus bubble’. Some like it, some don’t. </p>
<p>I suspect that it is hard for a hs senior to determine if they are OK with this ‘bubble’ environment. You really need to understand this going in…his life will revolve around the Grinnell campus and all the potential warts that it may have…drinking,drugs, liberals, sex, whatever.</p>