<p>“Nope. The liabilty/risk magement concern is that somebody fell down your staircase.”</p>
<p>The lawyer in me isn’t awake today. Still seems fishy.</p>
<p>“Nope. The liabilty/risk management concern in this case is that somebody fell down your staircase”</p>
<p>Yup, and they were practicing defense. Sue for falling down stairs, counter with alcohol on a breath.</p>
<p>It would seem from the story that all they have is a student who was seen falling down and unless that student was falling down coming out of an establishment that serves alcohol, I cannot see a reason to suspect alcohol.</p>
<p>And it also would seem to me that the police would have to ask for is a field sobriety test to establish a reasonable cause before going to a breathalizer (or specimen sample) to collect evidence for a MIP charge. The school probably only has the authority to turn the kid into the police for this type of charge and for their own processes they would either need a police report or physical evidence (eye witnesses, empty beer cans, etc.) to take any action.</p>
<p>I personally would not submit to such a breathalizer test as a violation of my rights unless they establish probably cause.</p>
<p>If ZG has an interest in rabble rousing, she would have a heck of a good story for the school paper.</p>
<p>She was running to put a dryer sheet into the dryer and is (like me) unbelievably clumsy and fell down the entire staircase. The dorm was setting up for a haunted house, so there were a lot of people around, including an RA from another dorm who saw the fall and assumed alcohol. ZG is the most gentle soul you will ever meet, which is why she was so easily bullied. She was, however, deeply embarrassed.</p>
<p>I agree w/ goaliedad—at the very least, she should contact the school newspaper and tell them her story. (I hope nothing was hurt, except her pride)…</p>
<p>I think the reason that this happened is because another school in ZGs neck of the woods was recently in the news for an alcohol related death amongst one of its students (the second with in the past year). So ZG’s school probably is not trying to take any chances.</p>
<p>If ZG really hadn’t been drinking at all..then submitting to the breathalzier was a VERY smart decision. Yes, the college was engaging in CYA. Fortunately for ZG, that attempt failed. </p>
<p>Just tell ZG NOT to sign anything that resembles a release. Sometimes injuries really are worse than they seem at first.</p>
<p>When I was in college (at a top 50 LAC which is not on the Biggest Party Schools list), I cannot think of a person who didn’t drink to some extent. Few did it to excess, but I never saw anyone abstain completely. I think there was a small handful of devout Christians on campus who may have abstained (I never saw them at parties, I am just wondering about it), but other than that I cannot think of one hall in four years where even a single person didn’t join in the fun at least once in a while. Since alcohol was not allowed in dorms, we were all breaking the rules. Also, the legal drinking age was 21, so for most of our college careers we were also all breaking the law.</p>
<p>With that in mind, I am wondering if so much has changed since I attended college. Some parents seem shocked that their child would drink on campus, or believe their children when they say that they wouldn’t, which is of course entirely possible (yet so very different than what I experienced). I certainly hope it has changed, BTW!</p>
<p>All of that being said, despite my personal confession, I would let your child solve his own problem. It is very good practice to do so.</p>
<p>I’m an RA at the university where I attend, and this is my point of view on all of this. We will go after alcohol/parties if you are doing it stupidly. Since we are not dry dorms, if you are above 21, you are allowed to have alcohol. However, we will ask to see your ID. What isn’t allowed is publicly drinking it. Therefore, don’t walk around the halls with a beer, don’t carry a keg into a building and think we won’t notice, and don’t party so loud that we get a noise complaint and have to shut the party down..</p>
<p>By the way, at my university, if the door is closed, we have to announce ourselves as an RA and knock. This, of course, gives time to hide the alcohol. But the general wisdom is that drunk people aren’t particularly good at hiding alcohol. </p>
<p>If you do get caught, we have to write up an incident report, then it goes to the student judicial affairs committee, which is made up of students who deal with this type of thing. All of the policy is clearly stated in our basic rule book and the entire process is documented. </p>
<p>I’m sure this isn’t the way that other universities do it, but I just wanted to share a bit from the other side of the story.</p>
<p>“Assume it is one of the expulsion schools, or at least loss of scholarship schools - are some of you folks saying that if your child was facing a criminal charge/civil suit that would cost them tens of thousands of dollars (like the loss of scholarship or expulsion would), you wouldn’t intercede on their behalf?”</p>
<p>I am among those who wouldn’t intercede if my kid got an alcohol violation at college. In the case of my S, both he and I know that at his school, an alcohol violation would mean that he’d lose his scholarship. If he is stupid enough to risk that, then he would deserve to come home and go to the local community college.</p>
<p>At both parents and students’ orientation, S’s college was very clear that if one were caught violating alcohol policies, students could lose their scholarships. I was very clear to son that if that happened, he’d be on his own. Consequently S (who to my knowledge doesn’t drink) was very clear with his roommates that if they choose to party, they need to find another place beside their dorm room.</p>
<p>“Why is it so different if it’s the college going after them for something they did? instead of GMAC? or Citibank? or Mr. Jones the landlord where the lease was broken? Or would they be on their own there , too?”</p>
<p>I don’t think that a kid needs a lawyer to deal with handling an alcohol violation at school. The kid needs to face the music and take the consequences. I don’t need to be there at my kid’s elbow. If he’s man enough to be breaking the rules, he would need to be man enough to face the music without Mommy at his elbow.</p>
<p>If a kid broke their lease or didn’t pay bills and was being sued, I’d advise them to do whatever they could to start making their payments. If they did need a lawyer, I would help them get a lawyer, but would expect my kid to repay me for any costs, even if that meant that they had to do that after graduating.</p>
<p>I surprised that some parents seem to assume that if their child is accused of violating the alcohol policy that they actually did so. You don’t even believe in innocent until proven guilty for your own kid? I would at the very least want to get the whole story and make my own evaluation of whether the accusation is justified. There may be some significant gray areas–i.e., if everyone at a particular party is charged with an alcohol violation, you’d want to know whether those who weren’t drinking in fact knew that others were.</p>
<p>Agree with Hunt. IMO, this is not a black and white issue. Kids that I know have been caught up in what I would consider overzealous enforcement of underage drinking laws. Nabbing kids who happen to be in the presence of other drinkers for example. If they consider an 18 year old too young to drink - then, in certain circumstances, they are also too young to defend themselves without some help. Yeah, if they were fighting, damaging property, drinking to excess or illness, maybe the consequences make sense. But losing a scholarship or drivers license over having one beer or being in the vicinity of other drinkers? I know it’s the law but it’s WAY too harsh, especially since close to 90% of kids on many college campuses admit to drinking. The best way to handle this is to study the policies before you sign on and be cautious. But to expect kids to totally abstain from drinking on college campuses today is unrealistic. I can tell them that’s the best way to avoid the risk. But I wouldn’t automatically look away if my son was a victim of what I thought was overly aggressive enforcement.</p>
<p>“But to expect kids to totally abstain from drinking on college campuses today is unrealistic.”</p>
<p>I’m baffled at this. They have a choice. It’s not as if they are being forced at gunpoint to drink. Certainly most students probably do drink alcohol, but many do not.</p>
<p>Yes, they have the choice. But the great majority of kids on most campuses DO drink. And the social pressure to drink is there. This was true when I went to school too (many years ago) - although the difference is that it was legal (18 was the drinking age in NY). We can lecture our kids all we want - but the stats speak for themselves. If you know your kid doesn’t that’s fine. I expect my kid does - and I’ve informed him of the risks. If he gets in trouble…I will evaluate the situation…not look the other way. I’m going to pull him out and enroll him in a community college cause he drank one beer? Or attended a party with alcohol? IMO, too harsh.</p>
<p>I’m confident my son is unlikely to drink, but he could easily be at a party/occasion where others were drinking. Getting swept up in that case really seems unfair.</p>
<p>D hears from friends at U of Michigan that they are getting breathalyzed on the way INTO football games…hmmm. Those with a positive result are not allowed into the game, get written up and have to attend alcohol ed program, a.k.a. “drunk class.” Haven’t heard how they decide who to test, or if it’s just random. I think this is all getting ridiculous. They are just going to go deeper underground, find better ways of sneaking booze around campus, and will be to afraid to get a friend who is over intoxicated help.</p>
<p>Actually that is at Wisconsin unless UM is doing it too. With the problem of some students acting up at games, it was done out of necessity for good crowd control.</p>
<p>[Green</a> Bay Press-Gazette - UW uses Breathalyzer on rowdy students at football games](<a href=“http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070922/GPG0101/70922056/1206/GPGnews]Green”>http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070922/GPG0101/70922056/1206/GPGnews)</p>
<p>And probably coming to PSU soon - due to the recent video.
Write ups and “drunk classes” - fine I guess. Losing your drivers license (PA rule) due to a beer or two before a game - over the top. I would hope the cops would look for kids who are visibly impacted.</p>
<p>There are two high schools in NJ which do random drug tests. Something about that makes my skin crawl.</p>
<p>My dd’s high school has a drug and alcohol policy that is extremely strict when it comes to athletic participation. If you are even PRESENT at a party where drugs or alcohol are being used (and you are abstaining), and the school finds out about it (other students - like the kid who wasn’t picked for the varsity team like you were, can report you anonymously), you lose a large chunk of the season. A second offence and you are kicked out for the remainder of the year (and I think a third means you can’t play any sports for the rest of your tenure at the school).</p>
<p>I agree that things are becoming ridiculous, but the reality is that if there are rules and you break them, you are going to pay the consequences (harsh or not). Mommy or Daddy cannot run off to the college campus and give that mean old dean a piece of their mind. It just doesn’t work like that.</p>
<p>My D was caught in a similar situation at her school and is now serving a 8 month probationary sentence (is now considered in bad standing at her school and if caught again will be kicked out of the dorm), had to pay a $75 fine and go to alcohol awareness counseling. During her orientation the schools expectations were laid out for the students. Our feeling is she knew what she was doing and took the chance so she pays the consequences.
I say keep out of it!</p>