SOPHOMORE Parents

<p>My S is in a large public high school. This week is course selection week for next year. I have tried to contact his GC requiring information about work load of various AP courses. She is not responding to me. I understand her work load (300 kids assigned to her). What would you do to communicate with GC? How are your GCs in your school? I really don't want to have bad relationship with her. Any suggestions are appreciated.</p>

<p>Besides being close to LA, your son essentially wants to go to the Claremont Colleges. The strong CS program that you speak of is Harvey Mudd College. If he feels able, the language double-major or studies can be done at Pomona, Scripps, Pitzer, or where-ever.</p>

<p>The Consortium has roughly 5000 students. HMC has roughly 720 and brags the exact environment that your son is looking for: no TA's, high Student-Prof interaction, no Greek life (only Geek life!), and a very diverse environment with the other colleges... not to mention that there are only undergrads at the colleges...</p>

<p>The only thing is that HMC is not out in the sticks. It is set in a small town roughly 45 minutes east of LA.</p>

<p>(Also, over 60% go on to get a masters...and PhD varies from 19%-37% depending on Dept.)</p>

<p>"She felt much more comfortable at Beloit, where, yes, there is a liberal slant, but also less political interest in general, a greater acceptance for moderate views, and definitely a less liberal bent to the curriculum."</p>

<p>Carolyn,
I appreciate the insider info on Beloit. When it comes down to it, my son would really rather not get too heavily into politics either. He has expressed several times that he's worried about how liberal Beloit might be. It's reassuring to know that they are more middle of the road. We were fast running out of options for schools. </p>

<p>I wish I could talk my son into visiting Lawrence University. People say their music conservatory and performances are wonderful there. Unfortunately, no bachelor of science. :( </p>

<p>I don't remember anything about Lake Forest. Thanks for the tip. I will research it further. If it's too close to Chicago, that may be a problem. I couldn't tell at a cursory glance if they offer a B.S.</p>

<p>Btw, Carolyn, I really like your web site. I read the (to me) highly technical study on why students don't complete their degrees. I am defintely going to share the info with my son. Maybe he can avoid the pitfalls.
--Rhonda</p>

<p>rocketDA,
I agree with you that Harvey Mudd is nearly a perfect fit, except for three things. As you pointed out, it's close to LA. I don't know if you were there when the terrible riots broke out and spread from neighborhood to neighborhood (late 80's early 90's?) in LA. Of course it doesn't help that we lived in San Francisco at the time; Northern California was always trying to break away from Southern California and form a separate state (kind of amusing, really). Even I am a little gun-shy concerning LA. At one point, we were planning to visit Harvey Mudd and try to get a feel for how far away from LA it is, geographically, culturally. Another problem is that it really is a reach school for my son right now. If he wants to go to Harvey Mudd, he is going to have to work harder and be more focussed on his academic goals. The other problem is what the books say, "an incredibly hard school; the work load is huge, and the classes are just dead hard . . . . eight to ten hours of homework every night." It's not that my son is lazy, but due to anxiety, he can sometimes feel overwhelmed. Ironically, its never the science or math courses that make him feel that way; those subjects are absolutely his strength. But he lets German and English (he just needs to add a little more effort) nickle-dime his GPA to death. So, he's got a 3.4 GPA but avg GPA for Harvey Mudders is 3.8. I really don't know, but it just seems he'll have to adjust to harder work and bring his GPA up a bit, before he'll match their profile. But, given that you are absolutely right, Harvey Mudd has nearly everything he's looking for, and I'm sure he'd find a lot of science people like him to fit in with, I'll try to persuade him to at least visit Harvey Mudd in his junior year. Except for these concerns, I absolutely agree.
--Rhonda</p>

<p>Wow, he certainly does know what he is looking for! Could he combine a program at Harvey Mudd and Claremont-McKenna? I can't remember exactly how this works, but I think you can be enrolled at one school and take classes at another. We visited Pomona this fall for my son. The schools are really together, like one big campus. Unfortunately for your son, they are in the LA suburbs, not the sticks. </p>

<p>I was born in Western Kentucky and lived there until I was almost 10 years old. My parents moved to southern Illinois (both are now deceased), so I continued to have lots of contact with western Ky. Loved it there! My family on both sides are long time Kentuckians. Most of my relatives are still in Ky or in Cincinnati. </p>

<p>If I get any good ideas on other possible schools later, I'll let you know.</p>

<p>Rgh, Perhaps your son doesn't fully understand the difference between the BA and BS is pretty minimal and doesn't at all indicate the quality of the undergraduate science program. Lawrence, for example, has an OUTSTANDING science program. Other schools that probably only offer BA's but have wonderful science programs would include Hope College (one of the best undergraduate research programs anywhere, conservative student body) and St. Olaf in Minnesota (larger LAC, 3000 people, excellent music conservatory, lutheran affiliation so students are very middle of the road, really happy campus). Another school to look at if he wouldn't mind Texas is Southwestern U outside of Austin. I think it might be worth a few visits to these type of schools, with meetings set up with science faculty members (most schools are happy to set this up) to discuss whether he really needs the BS degree.</p>

<p>Well, I take back what I just said. Hope DOES offer a B.S. degree in the sciences. Here is the link: <a href="http://www.hope.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.hope.edu&lt;/a> And so does Southwestern in Texas: <a href="http://www.southwestern.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.southwestern.edu&lt;/a> By the way, Southwestern has one of the prettiest campuses I've seen and top notch academics. They do take some kids with GPAs in the 3.0-3.5 range, and are looking to diversify geographically. The poster Fireflyscout is an alumni if you have questions. Sorry for giving the wrong info - I usually check but I'm rushing today. :)</p>

<p>rgh,</p>

<p>Sorry I posted redundant info about the Claremont Colleges. Somehow, I missed the subsequent posters. I can tell you that the neighborhood in which the Claremont Colleges are located is very suburban -- not at all dangerous. I believe Xiggi goes there.</p>

<p>Carolyn,
I'm unsure about the BS vs BA degree, but I do have work experience where I have actually seen on two separate occasions IT and Computer department hiring managers (in a government agency and private industry) shuffle the applicants with BA's to the bottom of the stack and interview only the BS's. This was in the late 1990's so I guess it could have changed. I think that it could have been a perception problem, but it did happen twice and in two different regions of the country. I think your point is very valid though, and I certainly don't want to demean any school's science program. I'll talk with my son about the issue. Thanks for bringing it up.</p>

<p>rocketDA and atlantamom,
I spoke with my son about the Claremont Colleges and he decided he does want to go visit their campuses and see what options he may have or be able to work toward. Great ideas! Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and advice. I am so glad we found this forum.
--Rhonda</p>

<p>In my experience- the difference between a BA and BS is negligible- For instance look at the percentages of students who recieve Phds in the sciences- I haven't looked them all up, but most of the schools in the top 10 don't even offer BS degrees. ( thats because many are LACs- HarveyMudd for example is #1 in chemistry)
<a href="http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So glad to find this thread! My oldest D is a college freshman after a HORRIBLE college admissions process - 10 applications, 7 outright rejections, one waitlist (at a school where she was a legacy and had SATs 100 points above their 75th percentile), and two acceptances, both at UCs. This was a kid who had taken mostly honors and APs, had a decent GPA and good SAT scores, NM commended, 8 years of violin, honor choir with many solos, leads in the school plays and musicals, good recommendations... Then, after all that heartbreak, at parents weekend, she said, "You know, I'm really glad all those other schools rejected me, because there's nowhere I'd rather be than here." You could probably hear my sigh of relief in Cleveland.</p>

<p>My sophomore, D #2, is an exceptionally bright kid who has chosen to rebel by doing poorly in school. Failed honors biology and geometry freshman year, failed algebra II last semester. Her ECs are lackluster - she dropped violin this year, she's talented at soccer, but chose not to try out for the team. Yet, her sophomore PSAT score was 181, same as her older sister's. She fails classes because she doesn't do the work, not because she doesn't understand it. (In her summer school bio class, the teacher referred students who didn't understand the material to her, and she'd explain it to them.) She's been through therapy - the therapist told us that she really didn't need therapy, and said she wished all her patients were as great kids as my D. And no, she's not doing drugs - I'm about as sure of this as I can be. She's funny, and insightful, and reads voraciously, and she does want to go to college. Eventually she will find her passion and be OK, but it's going to take either a drastic turnaround on her part or an especially sympathetic admissions counselor to get her into a school that will challenge her. (Probably both) </p>

<p>Especially after her sister's experience, I'm dreading the college admissions process with this one. I'm hoping that if she takes classes this summer and can pull her PSATs into Commended territory, someone, somewhere will take a second look at her. Worst case, in CA we've got good community colleges as a route to the UCs.</p>

<p>And after this kid I've still got one more! YIKES!</p>

<p>welcome pamavision!</p>

<p>Any insight to what went awry with D#1 college application process? Did she just apply to too many reaches?</p>

<p>S#1 is a senior and applied to 5 UCs (it was easy, just one app), our local state school, and six private schools. If we did our "homework" right (i.e. select realistic safeties, matches and reaches) I am hoping for acceptances at 8.....maybe I am just dreaming! :-)</p>

<p>Actually, he's already been accepted to his four safeties....which is wonderful........and makes the next month a LOT less stressful!</p>

<p>Pamavision,</p>

<p>Welcome! </p>

<p>If I was nervous about the college admissions process before, now I'm terrified! :eek: Your oldest daughter sounds so accomplished that opportunities should have just dropped at her feet. I too am curious about what happened.</p>

<p>--Rhonda</p>

<p>Have you guys looked at andi's thread? I think part of the problem can be how we determine what schools fit into the three categories. We looked long and hard to find a school that my son liked that would be a genuine safety. Most people thought we were underestimating him, but I certainly felt more comfortable knowing that school existed for him. He had 2 or 3 matches, but even 2 of those were schools where his stats were "significantly" above the 75th percentile. The other school was truly a match because his stats were right on for the school. The others were reaches, not because of his stats -- they were over the 75th percentile for all of them, but because the admissions rates were so low, that the stats just didn't "tell the whole story." He had great ec's too, but looking at andi's story, I knew that great ec's don't guarantee anything. By the way, I would have been in the dark about all of this if not for CC. Our hs counselors don't know anything about this at all. They really only know about the state schools and even then they are somewhat naive. They also don't give any assistance, except filling out the necessary forms.</p>

<p>Pamavision,</p>

<p>Regarding your youngest, I can imagine your frustration. One of my son's friends is so similar. He got an almost perfect SAT score first time around, but has poor grades. He lost NMF because of his grades. No one knows what will happen with college admissions for him. He is a super-smart kid, but didn't care about grades -- did only what interested him. </p>

<p>You are lucky to have the CA system. Here is GA, we don't have as good an avenue for HS underperformers. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for your d!</p>

<p>Pamavision,
since you are in CA, with their cc system I know my oldest daughter benefited from it greatly while in high school. Our district and I know our surrounding districts allowed her to take cc courses while she was still a high school junior and senior. Allowed her to take the classes during the school year and during the summer. They replaced some of her high school classes and raised her GPA while doing so. And it made a difference during college app time. She ended up transferring in over 60 units which allowed her to complete her science major with a minor while allowing more time for research and taking some graduate level courses. This has been especially helpful as that she was pre-vet and her grad school classes were through the vet school. Makes acceptance to vet school a little more easier!</p>

<p>But the definite turning point was her taking classes at the cc, which were much more to her liking and ability. The bonus was the diversity in the cc classes which helped to emphasis the real need for an education and how it could really change the course of a student's future. Especially saw this through the returning adults to the cc who never truly had the opportunity of college right out of high school. Was a real eye-opener for her. Gave her the motivation she had been lacking. Sank in a lot more than one mom at home nagging her.</p>

<p>She will be graduating in May!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>This is such a great thread! I have been mostly lurking for 2 years and have been so sad to think my time might be over. D1 teases me about still sending her info I've found on CC even tho she's happily thriving at her 1st choice college - thinks I'm addicted! </p>

<p>Background (sorry in advance for rambling): S1, 2nd year Soph(!), in CA. Intellectually curious (tons of unassigned nonfiction reading) and passionate about offbeat subjects, good athlete, very bright, unmotivated and undisciplined at highly competitive HS - 27 NMSF out of 110 students. Couldn't get into state school with his grades even though SAT test scores were above average. GC did backflips to get him into a selective local LAC that was a perfect fit (in my opinion!). Wouldn't budge. Went to a large out-of-state U (where he made all A's) to see if he could make the Jr Olympic ski team, injured his knee and transferred to a 2nd tier college in CA. Partied like crazy for 2 months, changed majors twice and is now a philosophy major taking 18 hours, staying after classes to talk to his professors, volunteering on weekends. Maybe he just needed to make it to 21! D1 - gifted student, high test scores, loves school, made it into 9 of 11 (1 reject, 1 WL) highly selective colleges and took her 1st choice - rejecting Ivies and Stanford over an LAC in CA - thriving and loves it!<br>
S2, my sophopmore, is the family "no" child. Super sensitive, learning disabilities, unmotivated by most teachers, not competitive, very funny and has many friends but doesn't want any leadership responsibilities at school - just wants to be a "regular" kid! Doesn't care about grades, thinks C's are fine, doesn't test well and isn't much interested in school or college. I sometimes think we have/are failing him. I don't put much pressure on him since he's prone to mild anxiety, but we do provide as much support as he'll take with tutors and outside interests. Can't even begin to think of where to send him for school. A gap year might be the ticket, give the experience with older S. But what? Where? How? Could I really not send a kid to college? Yikes!<br>
D2 (last one!) is very similar to S2 (LD and anxiety), except we have decided to keep her in a more competitve school and have been working more diligently with tutoring and support services. Have a few more years to see how she'll turn as she's still in middle school. Hoping we can eventually learn from our mistakes, but knowing that each kid is unique. </p>

<p>CC is so wonderful (but it can be scary, too!). I'll keep watching and hoping for all of you and your sons and daughters as you take this journey to college. It can be a wonderful time of self discovery. Thanks, Carolyn, for starting this thread.</p>

<p>rgheigtb - Did you look at Carleton?</p>

<p>D#1 applied to four schools as a musical theater major, a major which at almost all schools seems to have an acceptance rate below 10% (which I didn't realize until I found CC, too late). If she'd applied as "undeclared" to some of those schools, I think she would have been admitted. One other school was a major reach, two LACs seemed to be matches - but other kids with better stats from our small public HS applied to those schools too and were admitted, which hurt my daughter's chances. The school she now loves was an afterthought - she checked it off at the last minute on her UC application. Needless to say, the college counseling she received wasn't too good!</p>

<p>Unfortunately, we live about 45 minutes away from our local CC, and there are GPA requirements to take concurrent classes there. I'm hoping D#2 can bring her GPA up over 3.0 next semester, so she can take classes there this summer. We've actually already suggested that she think about getting her GED and then taking classes at the CC, since it's obvious that our local HS isn't working for her, but she's not interested. As I said, I know that eventually something will click and she'll do fine - it's just frustrating to sit by and wait for that to happen.</p>

<p>Pamavision</p>

<p>Thanks for the explanation. Musical Theatre sounds tough!!!</p>

<p>Many schools do not count freshman year grades and an upward trend is a positive sign.........so opportunities are still available for D#2 if she turns things around....but I know, she has to want to.</p>

<p>I have a friend with a son that sounds similar to your daughter (smart but poor grades) and he got accepted at a small private college in So. Cal.</p>