<p>I was in the Greek system as well, aa a fraternity member at the University of Illinois. Never, and I mean never, did we ever have alums help decide on membership into our fraternity. This was decided on exclusively by the members of the fraternity. We also had several minority members, And never was race ever a factor in either extending an invitation to a member or denying someone from joining us. I really don’t understand why the sorority system should be any different.</p>
<p>I understand what you are saying, Pizzagirl. Let’s call the black girl Person X. The article seems to say that a white girl like Person X would have been a hot recruit no matter what her personality, though. </p>
<p>It’s also interesting that the alums thought they had to intervene. Maybe that’s a sign of progress. If they were sure that there was no way the active members would choose to give Person X a bid, then they wouldn’t have bothered to intervene. They must have been afraid that the active members might like this young woman and want her to be their sister.</p>
<p>bevhills, No worries. I assumed it was a typo. When I first looked at the message I didn’t know what you meant, and I wanted to clarify, in case there was some meaning of AF that I was supposed to understand but didn’t. Thanks for clearing it up.</p>
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<p>In normal systems, it’s exactly what you describe. We need to continue to marginalize these backwards systems and let it be known that they are the aberrations.</p>
<p>PsychoDad: Why? Let me take you back in history when I was young. At that time women went to college to get an education AND to land a suitable husband. My guess here is that if you want to attract the “best” future husband the sorority doesn’t want their chapter flummoxed because the “best” fraternities won’t invite them for social events. Ergo, opportunities lost. So these old(er) women don’t want the change that might look like their house is getting weaker or can’t attract the best.</p>
<p>You know, this could lead to all sorts of problems…Jewish girls, Asian girls…</p>
<p>I don’t want to start becoming snide. I can truly say that I am friends with several of my sisters to this day. My daughter has friends from her house. Greek life can be a great contributor to the university, to the charities they represent (Tridelta andSt. Jude), and for a whole myriad of other things. And who knows? There may be change here.</p>
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<p>If the girls in these houses treated everyone fairly and decided collectively they were interested in Person X, and alums got involved and vetoed their decision-making and threatened “sanctions” (which is again amusing – what, you won’t come pour the punch?) – I think the nationals should sanction the alums, withdrawing their membership if necessary. “No black girls can enter my sorority” is not consistent with any Panhellenic group’s code of ethics and values.</p>
<p>building on #25, with which I agree:</p>
<p>Sororities sometimes talk about selecting future leaders. The most popular sororities have the best chance of getting the most obvious future leaders. Power can become concentrated. It carries over into post graduate life. Someone on the Alabama thread mentioned the Machine.</p>
<p>The issue of power concentration goes beyond Alabama, maybe even into areas outside the south? I definitely think some fraternities, even in the midwest and northeast, are “power” fraternities in almost the same way as their southern chapters.</p>
<p>When I was at UC Berkeley there was a scandal involving a sorority admnistrator/alum (or whatever you call sorority women past graduation) who actually said, ON CAMERA, in a documentary about Cal Greek system that… drumroll please… “Minority women AREN’T MATURE ENOUGH” to be accepted into most of the ‘good’ sororities. </p>
<p>Berkeley, in the 80’s for Pete’s sake. </p>
<p>To my mind, it’s not Alabama, it’s not Berkeley. It’s the antediluvian values of sororities and fraternities.</p>
<p>According to the NYT:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/us/sorority-exposes-its-rejection-of-black-candidate.html?_r=3&[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/us/sorority-exposes-its-rejection-of-black-candidate.html?_r=3&</a></p>
<p>Now there’s someone whose job should be in jeopardy, if this report is true. Someone who works for the University, and tells the sorority they shouldn’t admit the black woman? Whoa.</p>
<p>I follow these threads because I teach at a university and I find the whole thing interesting (I did not join a sorority and neither did my college D), but I have to say sort of like a train wreck is interesting. </p>
<p>Generally my biggest objection to sororities is that they consume so much time, more time than I think a lot of students realize when they decide to join.</p>
<p>But comments like this make me want to bulldoze the whole system. Yes, there are good things that sororities do, like support charities, but let them do those things without excluding anyone who wants to join.</p>
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<p>This “I am top tier” (and impliedly, some others of you are not) mentality makes me sad and mad, regardless of what race the president of the house was.</p>
<p>This is just the reality of the system, Amesie. I don’t think bevhills (ellebud) is ranking. I think she is describing. It is a different situation if a house, which has to cut the majority of the rushees who are interested, chooses someone AA than if all the AA rushees end up at the house which rarely makes quota. Her description told me something about her daughter’s group, and most likely that campus, which wouldn’t have been clear otherwise.</p>
<p>My “names in the hat” proposal gets rid of tiers.</p>
<p>It’s the 21st century. Why do public universities even permit on campus these exclusionary organizations?</p>
<p>alh: Thank you for clarifying what I wrote. (That is said sincerely). And, this said with humor, my house (the lone Jewish sorority) we were not in the top tier, nor in the middle…and it effect my dating or marrying cache.</p>
<p>I did take a few minutes off from finishing this post…my sorority big sister just called.</p>
<p>Do those of you who were/are in sororities think that the national organizations are going to come down hard on these Alabama sororities for, apparently, going against the black letter rules of the national sorority? Are they going to say, Stop letting alumnae vote, stop blacklisting potential members for being the wrong color, or you’re out?</p>
<p>When we put together D’s application list last fall, Alabama was on it - D qualified for the full OOS presidential scholarship. I learned, on these very forums actually, about the segregation of the sororities. D isn’t particularly interested in joining a sorority, but these are your classmates, roommates, and potential friends regardless and she couldn’t imagine living in this kind of environment. </p>
<p>So we scratched it from the list.</p>
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<p>Mine was not one of those mentioned in the article, but I sure as heck hope so, or I will be very vocal in my displeasure and urge my sisters to do the same. Our national organization happens to be located close to S’s campus (which is probably outing it for those who care to figure it out, but whatever) and I’d have no problems going there and asking them what’s going on. In fact, I’ll be in that town on Monday. Maybe I’ll stop by.</p>
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<p>In fairness, some of these young ladies ARE speaking out, and good for them. </p>
<p>It’s just that there’s still clearly enough of a climate that an alum thinks she CAN get away with telling the girls they can’t pledge a black girl and that they should “understand why.” I mean, if one of the advisors to my house said that to the current collegians – don’t pledge so-and-so, she’s black! cut her! – they’d look at her as though she had two heads.</p>
<p>Well, I said just about everything I had to say on this subject last week in that other thread. ;)</p>
<p>All I can say is that I, for one, feel vindicated in insisting that it WAS a big deal. </p>
<p>The article in The Crimson White was extremely well done, and reflects much credit on the school, IMHO. According to what I just read in the Alabama forum, representatives from national GLOs are descending on the campus. One can hope that this will mean that the grip of the alumnae on the rush process at those houses is broken, and the evidently more open-minded students will prevail.</p>
<p>Some of the links to articles about The Machine are truly horrifying, though. I don’t think this is going to be a quick fix.</p>
<p>All of the above aside, a local girl whom I know slightly pledged a sorority at Bama (not one of the ones mentioned in the article) a few weeks ago. I have to say I feel bad for her and all the other new pledges … what an introduction to Greek life!</p>
<p>I suspect that if in your presence another advisor tried to tell girls they couldn’t pledge so-and-so because she’s black, you’d do more that give that advisor a funny look, Pizzagirl!</p>
<p>AFAIK, we haven’t heard boo from any alums of these sororities. Do you suppose most of them tacitly supported the alum’s views? Or do the blackballing alums’ powers extend to other alums, so that speaking out could be professionally harmful? You’d imagine that the Class of 2013 would be rushing to the microphone explaining that they were not involved in this fiasco and would never blackball a potential member for being the wrong color.</p>