Sorry but ...Chances?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>I had my interview today - very last minute, so of course, now I'm thinking about my chances! I'm an international student from the UK, credentials run thus:</p>

<p>4.0 GPA (I think - not certain)</p>

<p>SAT I (old) 1320 - 790 verbal, 530 math, a note to say I hadn't taken math in two years before taking the SAT.</p>

<p>SATIIs in Latin, Writing and Literature - 560, 740 and 760 respectively, a note to say the Latin syllabus wasn't made available to me, nor was there a way of seeing a full Latin paper before the exam. </p>

<p>GCSES in English lit, lang, History, Latin, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Maths and French, Grade A, GCSE Art, grade B</p>

<p>AS levels in Classics, History and English, grade A, Latin, grade B</p>

<p>A levels in History and English, A, Classics, B </p>

<p>AEA (Advanced Extension Award) English, Distinction</p>

<p>English Speaking Union scholarship at Peddie School in NJ, currently studying AP Latin IV/V (pre-taught the V syllabus, not IV) among a seven course-load.</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:</p>

<p>Debate team captain/coach of younger years
Chapel Choir
Student-directive projects
Set-up of ballroom dance club in US/competitive ballroom dancer in England
Ballet student at Princeton Ballet School
Acting plus tech in school productions
Photo club
Riding
Gun-dog training
Flute/Piano
Yearbook photographer
Writer for school newspaper
(among others) </p>

<p>I'm hoping my own UK grades outweigh the US bad SAT I score, but any idea as to my chances?</p>

2

<p>Not very good, I'm sorry to say. It is hard to be accepted from the UK in general, but it will probably be even harder for you. You don't take very many A-levels and your grades are very mediocre for a P applicant (no A*s at GCSE?). Not taking math or science subjects will hurt your chances even more, as these classes are required for undergrads by Princeton and it is unlikely you will be able to keep up if you got a 530 SAT I. </p>

<p>You have no discernable hook (tonnes of English apps) and your extracurriculars do not stand out. I am really sorry, but I don't see you getting in unless you wrote a truly, truly outstanding essay or you are ranked nationally as a dancer or something.</p>

<p>I would advise applying to more realistic schools such as NYU or maybe Cornell for regular decision, if you still want to go to an east coast American school.</p>

3

<p>Um, not many A-levels? I was only able to take three at my school, plus I took Advanced Extension Award, which 70% of candidates don't score in at all. I do get that my math/science ability is low; I'm taking a science and a math course at Peddie, but obviously, having not done much, I can't go into a decent course now! GCSES, nope, I got no A<em>s, but as for my ECs -- I *am</em> a pretty highly rated dancer, and do well with it. If my chances are poor, then they're poor, I guess.</p>

4

<p>I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you at all. If you could only take 3 A2s at your school then that is not your fault, I guess, but Princeton will probably hold it against you nonetheless- it works out to a 3.5ish GPA w/ what they will see as a fairly undemanding curriculum. All of the applicants I've seen apply to elite schools from England have taken at least 4 and have gotten As in all of them (most still got deferred/rejected), so all I'm saying is that you won't stand out with those grades-ditto for GCSEs. As for dancing, you really have to be one of the top in the country for it to stand out for Princeton. I'm just trying to be honest with your chances.</p>

5

<p>I wasn't offended, just surprised, as it's common knowledge in the UK that you do normally three A levels; four are only able if your school allows it - and mine didn't. I thought the AEA made up for it, as AEA goes far beyond A-level. </p>

<p>As for extracurrics, I don't know. I guess we'll see on April 1st!</p>

6

<p>hows the GPA if one took 6 AS levels ( eng,hist,geog,socio,eco and maths) and 4 A2 levels( hist,geog,,eco,socio)
wats the GPA like then?</p>

7

<p>It depends on the grades you got in all of them. Each A is worth 4, B 3, C 2, D 1 , E/F/U 0... Average the points to find your GPA. But it might be hard to get into elite schools with those A2 levels as there's not a lot of variety in them and they are all considered to be 'soft' subjects except history, at least by Oxbridge.</p>

8

<p>Actually, most highly selectives look for students who make the most of the opportunities available to them. It sounds like Alice did this...and she has extremely interesting ecs. From her interests in dance, theatre and other fine arts, it seems as though she wouldn't be applying as a math or science major, so lower scores in these areas may not be held against her. The assumption held by many that maths and sciences 'make the world go 'round' is a false one. There is a shortage of students with career goals in humanities and this could work in her favor.</p>

<p>Alice - I hope you made the most of your competitive ballroom dancing experience (especially if you won awards/competitions) and the fact that you started a dance club here in the States. Also, try to remember posters here are your peers, not admissions counselors. No one really knows anyone's chances at Princeton, other than Princeton admissions officers.</p>

9

<p>All I'm saying is that Princeton requires some maths and sciences classes regardless of concentration, and they may not think that she can handle the classes with her mathematical background.</p>

10

<p>Er, Geography and Economics? Soft subjects? Oxbridge? ...Methinks you don't know much about that, then! Um, Land Economy at Oxford? PPE at Oxford? Neither of those regard Geography/Economics as 'soft' subjects. Granted, Economics isn't essential - a friend who applied for PPE at Oxford, and her feedback said she was two places off an offer, took Maths, not Economics, but Economics is highly regarded. For Land Economy, I think Geography is highly recommended, and certainly, it's a labour-intensive course. It must be as highly recognised as History, for example. Socio - Sociology? I don't recognise it, so I can't pass comment.</p>

<p>As for my application to Princeton - I applied with the intended major of English, Classics or Creative Writing, including a sample of creative writing, and yes, I did take advantage of competitive dancing - I've been dancing two years, and I danced, (before coming to the US, Hightstown is rather difficult to find ISTD/NATD standard ballroom teachers) roughly seven hours a week; two hours of private tuition, plus a three hour class on a Sunday (including teaching beginners for an hour) and then at least two hours practice on a Sunday, for competition, as well. </p>

<p>I also know I do have a serious weakness with Science and Math - unfortunately, the scholarship I'm on brought me in midway through the year, and at Peddie, all the math/science courses, bar the Spring Electives, run for a full school year, so I couldn't pick it up half way through, with two years' gap between study at GCSE and study at the level Princeton would want anyway. What's not on my application is that I'm studying in my spare time to bring up my math/science level, that I'm being tutored, and I hope to take SATII math or science next autumn.</p>

11

<p>I'm not saying that I see them as soft subjects, but yes, Oxbridge do consider them as soft subjects unless they directly relate to the degree (e.g. Economics to PPE). For American schools, where you are applying to an English, Classics or Creative writing 'degree', I am guessing that Princeton will also view them as soft subjects as they do not apply directly to the intended concentration (not that they are not challenging classes)</p>

<p>I am sorry to say that 2 years of dancing does not mean very much by Princeton's standards, especially at only an average of an hour a day. In order to get into Princeton on dancing, you really have to be doing it for a bare minimum of 5 years, and you must be at a very,very high level now. </p>

<p>I understand your predicament with the sciences. What I am saying is that Princeton will not sympathise with it. But if you are being privately tutored it would really be a good idea to include that in your application to let them know you are catching up. And what do you mean you're planning on taking your SATII next autumn? Won't you be a fresman in university by then? </p>

<p>All I am saying is that Princeton will probably not sympathise with your circumstances for A-Levels and maths and sciences, and will probably not view the dancing as anything but a fairly strong extra-curricular.</p>

12

<p>Well... I can't say I agree with you on Oxbridge, but we'll agree to disagree! :) </p>

<p>As far as Princeton goes - well, it's too bloody late now to include stuff. They've probably made the decisions, however - I'm trying to change my course schedule so I pick up Algebra II and/or Geometry, in addition to the 'soft' science elective I have this term. As for dancing - I think that you're right, if I were studying ballet or something similar, and had danced since I was three, danced seven + hours a week and was now an advanced dancer, then it would be something different. However, I have been told that they might see the fact that I worked for two years to get to a level that would normally take six years, plus I've competed nationally, plus my common app essay was about dancing and why it's significant, as important to a degree. </p>

<p>Princeton might not sympathise with my science situation, then again, up until two years ago, if an applicant was particularly strong, one-sided, and the SAT reflected that (like my score) then they just disregarded the weaker side. (And in order to back up my claim, this is from a Princeton professor who's my best friend's father, has been at Princeton for twenty years or thereabouts, and knows what he's talking about) I think it's a little unpredictable what will blow my application out of the water completely. I'm well aware my chances are pretty small, they were supposedly decent for Cambridge and I got rejected, so ...Who knows? </p>

<p>I might try emailing them and asking if I can include the information about tutoring in my application to bring up my science/math ability. As for my SAT score, there IS a note in my file from my current guidance counselor, saying that my school was obstructive to me taking the SAT and didn't help with mathematics. </p>

<p>As for planning to take the SATI/SATIIs again ... I am. Because I applied two months past deadline to my colleges -_- (but excused by the colleges) because of extenuating circumstances, I could only apply to a few, and I stand very little chance with things as they are. I will probably take another year off, and re-apply to a bunch of places in decent time, and thus I'm studying as if that were the plan. Capisce?</p>

13

<p>Capisce... Good luck. Definitely send in those notes to Princeton, they keep on changing around decisions until the last minute. Did you apply anywhere safety?</p>

14

<p>Alice - I wasn't clear enough. I meant I hoped you made the most of your competitive ballroom experiences and the leadership shown by forming a dance club...in your application to Princeton. It's a very unusual ec and makes you a more interesting candidate imho.</p>

15

<p>Madd Stressed - I didn't have a chance to apply to Safeties. My family has no money - I'm not exaggerating. My parents' combined incomes this year was -$100,000. I arrived in mid-January in the US, and was told I could apply here, toward the end of January. I sent off my applications Feb 1st-10th. I had a really limited number of schools who'd waive the time-limit (basically, limited to those admissions offices my counselor knew people in, and could pull strings) With the combination of needed international needs blind financial aid, and the lateness, I had very, very few options. But hey, if I go around again, I'll study more AS levels in the English syllabus, and take Math, Physics, Chem and Bio! It's sad, but I'm now really regretting giving up those classes. Now I'm not so focused on A-level results, I can learn for the sake of enjoyment, rather than gearing my studies towards my strengths. </p>

<p>Idmom06 - yeah, I made a big deal out of it. That was the extracurricular I wrote most about, it was the subject of my common app essay (actually, focusing on the bond it created between me and my grandmother who danced during the second world war, giving us something to share when she was dying of cancer, and how now my family has split up over her will, it holds me together) and my interviewer really, really focused on it; seventy percent of my interview was about ballroom dancing, the ballroom club I set up at Peddie and so on. Unfortunately, I sprained my ankle badly (as in, I was in a cast) ice-skating during a weekend activity at Peddie, and have been unable to dance because my ankle was too weak, or I'd have auditioned with their ballroom society or something to supplement my app. If I re-apply next year, I'll have someone video me at a competition, and send that in.</p>

16

<p>And having sent them an email that explained my circumstances, I've got a reply saying a copy of it has now been put in my file for my admissions officer to read.</p>

17

<p>Your chances are decent for an international but not the best. We have it pretty hard in general. There are many applicants from the UK with better stats; but as we all know its not all about stats. Good Luck (as long as you dont take my place :P)</p>