Southern LACs

College Search & Selection
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@lots2do Out of those three colleges, it’s tough call for D between BSC and Rhodes for the top spot. I would definitely say Rhodes is a better college than BSC with more opportunities. Hendrix competes with Rhodes for academics and facilities but Conway is a non-starter for D. If we were to have a serious final discussion, I would be surprised (and disappointed) if D chose BSC over Rhodes.

The previous paragraph is likely for naught, however, since D would gladly choose Rollins over any of these three colleges and URichmond is still in play. In the end, I think it will come down to those two colleges for D, and I would be pushing strongly for Richmond.

About greek life, we have the same reservations as lots2do and mil97mom. At all of these southern lacs with a heavy greek life, the students giving the tours all say that greeks are very inviting of non-greeks, and there is no “second-class” citizenship toward non-greeks. True? I don’t know.

@Mil97mom. Little Rock is just far enough from Hendrix that you wouldn’t go there (at least D wouldn’t) on a regular basis. Not sure that Little Rock is all that special anyway; maybe it is! Your D has many great options for colleges. I wouldn’t deter her from attending a college just because it doesn’t have a neuroscience major. I think these these specialized bio majors are overrated for undergraduates. Having sufficient molecular courses is very important and coupling biology and computer science (aka bioinformatics) is really the future of biomedical science… actually that’s where it is right now. One can always specialize in neuroscience during postgraduate training.

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@dadof1 - thank you for posting such wonderfully detailed reviews. Wishing your D the best of luck with Rollins and Richmond. Richmond was one of our favorites.

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I am following this thread and just have to commend all of you parents for running a truly successful college application process based on things that seem to more accurately predict best fit and best chance for success for your student. I’m turned off immediately when rankings and prestige are the only factor in choosing a school, and especially when the students have never set foot on an Ivy campus. So this thread is especially refreshing to read.

You parents are putting in the hours, logging the miles, to discover what it’s really like on campus and if the marketing brochures and college guides have captured the true feel of the student population. I appreciate the sharing of reviews, and have learned about both the campuses mentioned and about specific ways to investigate a college.

Thanks for sharing your journeys.

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@powercropper, amen!

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Yes, 50% is a pretty high number but I don’t think you can make the comparison of Greek life at Rhodes to Greek life at large southern schools, for instance. For one, all the Greek houses at Rhodes are nonresidential (so all students, Greek or not, will still live in dorms for at least two years). Second, their parties and events are non-exclusive, meaning they are open to everyone on campus, regardless of affiliation. S did pledge a fraternity at Rhodes. He thought it was a great way to meet new people in the first weeks of school but he still has friends who are independent.

While he acknowledges that “the Greek system is what it is,” he thinks the lack of residential housing and big-time sports at Rhodes create a more “relaxed vibe” than there would be at the Greek systems of the larger universities.

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Just discovered this thread by accident and wanted to reply @dadof1 and @4kids4colleges regarding Southwestern. DS is a senior there this year and we live in a nearby town (not Austin).

Re: the fine arts requirement – yes, as part of the “general education requirements” that everyone must complete, you have to take one fine arts lecture and one fine arts performance class. My son took an art history class for the lecture and took piano for performance. “Performance” also includes painting, sculpture, etc., in addition to acting and music performances.

Re: dorms – not all the dorms are suite-style with regard to bathrooms. At least one dorm, Ruter, which is all-male, has the old-style bathrooms down the hall.

Re: on-campus housing in general – it is very overbooked. Another dorm is scheduled to begin construction soon but it won’t be ready for at least another year, if not two. Send in your housing deposit asap. The on-campus apartments are generally only for upper-classmen and they are also difficult to get your first choice. SU requires students to live on campus for two years.

Re: Dr. Burger saying he invites every student to his home for dinner … my son has not received that invitation. Maybe he’s starting with current freshmen?? Otherwise, he is definitely a great addition to SU and well qualified. He’s also very visible around campus, attending athletic events etc.

Re: the recent news reports about the two reported sexual assaults … this happens at every college campus. My son talked to me about the news reports and he thought the whole thing was overblown by some of the student protesters. It is certainly something that any parent should be concerned about. My knowledge of the SU police department, and general campus security, has been very high. The chief of police is a woman.

Anyway, if anyone has questions about SU, I’ll be glad to try and answer them.

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Excellent review @dadof1! Thank you. Such a drag that the weather was so bad for your visit. Best of luck with upcoming U of Richmond news!

@cgpm59, thanks for sharing your first-hand knowledge about SU. The information about on-campus housing being overbooked is very useful to know, in particular.

About Dr. Burger saying all students have dinner at his home - I believe this happens when they are seniors, so there is still time for your S!

The sexual assault issue at SU - I agree this happens at most college campuses. One of my biggest concerns was with the initial reaction of the administration, which was very weak in my opinion. Compare to president at U of Oklahoma with the recent racist incident. Frats shut down immediately, students expelled. When it comes to sexual assault, I believe the same sort of no-tolerance message must be sent, with no hesitation, and certainly the administration suggesting “self defense” classes was not the answer. Dr. Burger did come forward (a little late, in my opinion) with a strong statement about this, and the frats apparently were (are?) shut down. I’m sure they will be making progress with this in the coming months.

I must say, the sort of incidents reported at SU – drugging drinks at a fraternity, in a deliberate effort to assault women, does not, in my opinion, happen at “every” college, especially at very small, close-knit liberal arts colleges. It is not a coincidence, either, that this happened at a fraternity and not just some random campus party. It does concern me.

Many other colleges have already been through the process of bringing their sexual assault/misconduct policies and education programs into line with current realities. I think SU is a little behind the times on this one. It is a serious issue, and as a woman with a daughter on her way to college, I do not find the protests/demands for change “overblown” at all. Clearly, previous efforts to raise awareness and stop this reprehensible behavior were completely ineffective.

I don’t know the answer, both SU and Centre College, top choices for my D, have a significant Greek presence. I’m not thrilled about it at all.

Update on Agnes Scott - D did not receive the full ride scholarship (only 4 awarded, not surprised), but did get an additional $4k merit scholarship total, plus an additional “grant” for $12k total over 4 years, bringing scholarship to $26k per year, and COA of $22k . Too bad she’s not sold on this school. Talk about a safe place for women. But I get it.

D is flying on her own to Centre for admitted students day in April. Until then, no more trips planned! @lots2do, please let us know your thoughts about the TX schools, including SU. I do think SU is a great school. Have a great trip!

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Anyone hear about financial aid for Southwestern or Trinity yet? We got package for SU but nothing for Trinity yet. D2 was gapped over 10k by SU unfortunately. From past years it looks like Trinity FA doesn’t come out til end of March or even April.

btw - thanks for all the effort you reviewers put into these posts. This has been a great discussion!

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@lz57c4 D applied to Southwestern but not Trinity. She received 18K in merit which left a very middle of the road 30K CoA (Tuition/Fees/RandB).

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@dadof1‌, to start off, this thread has been excellent. I also enjoyed reading through your ‘budding career scientist’ discussion.

Since our EFCs will all vary, and some may have a large amount of financial need while others may not even be eligible for aid, comparing apples to apples may be hard.

For my D’s situation (having significant need), Her reasonably low ~20K COA probably wouldn’t be as meaningful, to us, to compare as the gap. Even though I don’t agree with including loans and other self-help in with the package - that is the reality we’re faced with. The 10K gap we face considers the entire aid package, loans and all. if I ignored the loans it would be a gap of about 16K. As an fyi, SU didn’t include work-study in their numbers but said it would be available.

Not the best package D has received, but not the worst either. SU is very generous with their merit awards, but not as generous as other schools with their institutional grant aid. Just sharing facts, hopefully this doesn’t come across as sour grapes.

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lz57c4, thanks for the kind words! This thread has been very helpful for my family as well. It’s been a shared community experience for sure.

Yes, the different EFC and savings of each family does complicate the aid picture comparison. Your post doesn’t sound like sour grapes at all… it is disillusioning at times to think of the costs involved and the decisions that are made because of this reality. I hope you and your D all the best!

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Good luck to you @lz57c4. We have not received any FA info from Trinity U. Southwestern awarded no need-based aid, but very surprisingly just raised our D’s merit award from $21k per year to $22k per year. I suspect this is because we recently attended an open house event at SU and D experienced a very positive overnight visit, but don’t know for sure. There was no explanation given. We appreciate it, whatever the reason!

Also on the subject of FA, I found it very interesting that Agnes Scott awarded D an additional $3k per year in grant aid (i.e. financial aid) on top of merit aid. Our EFC was too high to qualify for any aid, or so I thought. Another school, College of Idaho, also awarded her $5k per year in additional financial aid grants. This school is the most affordable of all for us, with a COA of $17K after merit and financial aid, cheaper than going to a state school.

The lesson here may be, for those who are sure they will not receive any need-based aid, apply anyway!

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We have returned from a day at Southwestern U followed by a day with several sessions at UT Austin. I will piggyback my review off the one that @4kids4college did last month as she has captured the overall appearance and feel of the campus.

We had a day that started out cloudy but everything is blooming from all the rain. We were at SU on the Thursday before SU’s spring break. It was a personalized tour rather than an open house like 4kids attended. We arrived early, sat through an admissions presentation, lunch in the dining hall, meeting with a Chemistry professor and finally a campus tour. Bright and sunny and in the 70’s by the time we had our tour.

Pros:
Lovely campus. Feels very safe, and I would use the word nurturing. See 4kids4colleges more detailed description - I concur.

Nice draw for my S (a brass musician) to have a school of fine arts and facilities.

Renovations Phase 1 of two currently being conducted on the Science building to add more lab and classroom space.

Proximity to Austin? This to me is a pro and a con. Pro for internship opportunities, and everything Austin has to offer in the arts, culture, festivals, etc.

Two students we met in the Science building that appeared to be conducting research - came into the hallway to speak to us. They were bright and engaging. One a sophomore and one a junior. They shared that they were conducting uterine cancer research for one of the female professors. They were both Biology majors - hopeful to attend med school. Both would get to contribute to the research paper for this project and get their names on it. These two students were the most like my S of anyone we saw on campus.

Ladies in the dining hall are welcoming and said they hope to see my S on campus soon. Also spoke to my daughter, recognizing she was younger, and said that they hope to see her in a few years! Dining hall food was fine - varied and fresh.

The Book listed below for Chem and Biochemistry major grads had all grads in jobs in their field or in med school, dental school or grad school.

Cons:
We had time to look through a book on the table in the admissions office that details by major, what the grads are doing. Two of their largest majors I believe are Biology and Business. These two sections among other smaller ones like Music majors - had several grads listed as a barista, waitstaff, and other similar hourly and service industry positions.

Chemistry Professor did not sell us on the school or the program. The Science Building was nearly deserted except for the two students and this professor - who has been in a temporary office since July because of the renovations. The building was mostly dark. Electrical wires are taped down on the hallway floors to keep power to the lab eqmt during renovation. Phase 2 of the renovation will gut the entire building and rebuild the interior into more modern classrooms, preserving the exterior because it is historic. Professor mentioned that phase 2 has not been funded yet and is scheduled to follow phase 1. I am not sure of the timeline on these renovations, but I was not encouraged that this space would be up and running any time soon.

Dining hall space - my first impression of how small the school is - felt cramped and uninviting. Pedestals for the tables are really huge, so it is difficult to bring your chair to the table. Tight space that does not encourage you to linger. Felt smaller than S’s high school - which it is.

91% of students come from the state of Texas.

For my S, a junior, this was a beneficial visit to narrow down acceptable size for him. He said SU was not too small for him. My husband and I - who both attended large flagship U’s in different states, felt it was too small (at least for us!). We will take this point of reference forward as we plan to visit Hendrix next month.

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Really great review @lots2do. Thanks. I did not see the Science Center, so this info is helpful.

I would say 91% of students from TX is a definite negative. Naturally, the school set D up with hosts from outside TX during her visit - and she met a student at SU from a NM town nearby our home.

This week, we had the chance to speak to 2 SU alums who were visiting a mutual friend here in CO. The husband was a chemistry major and had great things to say about that department. He went to UT Southwestern med school and is a physician. The wife was a math major, got a master’s degree, and is a high school teacher. It was really nice to hear from some very enthusiastic alums.

I’m curious how your son liked UT Austin?

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Good question, @4kids4colleges. UT Austin is too big for S. This trip was to confirm that or to make it seem smaller by getting plugged into smaller communities. We attended a Plan 2 Honors session, a College of Natural Sciences session (and an Aerospace Engineering- for a younger sibling’s interests). Plan 2 Honors is a Liberal Arts Honors program that sounds amazing. It is very competitive, but an amazing opportunity for the right student. S did not hear anything that would make him feel comfortable at a University with 50K students. And to be honest, I do not believe he went with an open mind anyway.

Thursday after touring Southwestern, we drove to Austin. Traffic was bad due to the big event called SXSW - South by Southwest. We did a ghost tour of Austin on segways from 7 - 9:30 PM, It was a blast! And I recommend you schedule one when you are in town again and you have the time. Mention the groupon for a significant savings at $37 pp rather than $75 pp. We were zipping around the state capital, 6th street, warehouse district and congress avenue bridge to see the bats. A great way to see Austin!

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That is awesome@lots2do! What a great way to see Austin.

Our D visited CU Boulder, our flagship U and a great school… and hated it. Way too big. She is very comfortable at a small school, no question. I am a huge fan of small LACs for undergrad, big Us for grad school (that’s how I did it - In my experience small for UG is far superior, no question at all).

D did like the opportunity to maybe attend UT events or someday go there for grad school. And she loved that Austin was so close.

Good luck to you! Did you make it to Trinity?

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@4kids4college‌s - I’m of the same mindset: LAC for UG and large research U for grad school.

I love Austin (went to UTLaw and my S currently lives there) and Plan 2 is an amazing program, but UT is just so huge. It’s easy to get lost among 50k students.

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@4kids4colleges, we attended a Trinity in Focus on a Saturday in late January. I did not write a trip report as it was our first visit with S, junior in HS. I was already aware of his preference for smaller schools, and I was just beginning to find threads like this one at the time. S’s “list” prior to the Trinity visit was formed from mailings and reading that he had done online. It included mention of schools like Reed and Oberlin. I read a bit about those schools, and while I can still agree to some extent on Oberlin as a possible fit, I do not agree with Reed - for lots of reasons, the most practical of which is that their aid is need-based only. (And as a kid from a conservative family, I am not sure he even understands the liberal - conservative differences - as I don’t even at times.)

And, I sort of feel like this thread is for you and @ColdinMinny and @Dadof1 and others who are currently IN the senior year, visit, apply, results, visit again process. I will add @Beaudreau to this list as his S is considering Trinity and @CanuckHorn because his S is there, and I have appreciated his attempts to educate the Trinity U CC community.

S went to Trinity in Focus (TIF) without any expectations. He came out of it pleasantly surprised.

Trinity U Pros:

The Center for Innovation and Science - amazing space for research, classrooms, cross-discipline interaction, studying - open 24 hours/day. I would think a big plus for most science focused students (except maybe Engineering - see cons)

Dining Hall - we ate in - he could see eating here and not getting tired of it for a while. Lots of options and space. Does not close during off hours. Tuesdays in student center is free nachos at noon. There was another free food event - like Friday afternoons - but can’t recall. Boys like free food. Student center has been adding more dining a la carte options - a taco place and Einstein’s, smoothie station.

Dorms - while not the very best we have seen - they are very nice. Walk in closet to share with roommate, outdoor balcony, suite-style bath with cleaning service. In dorm laundry and a kitchen as well as a guest bathroom on the hall. Freshman dorms is what we saw during TIF. Upperclassmen have more apartment style options and located away from freshman.

Research opportunities as early as second semester freshman year once completed Chem1 and lab - as well as stipend- paid summer research 10-week programs to apply for. Our tour of the Science center was lead by one of the Chem profs. Appears to be lots of collaboration across Chem, Bio, CS, Engineering, Math - all the science disciplines really.

Scholarships available for non-music majors based on an audition, and requiring participation in one of many music ensembles. (I have found this to be true at SU as well as others, too.) Also scholarships for other talented kids in Art and Theater, I believe. Opportunities to act in theater as a non-major, perform music as a non-major. Maybe this is true of all LAC like schools - but it was new info for us.

I have liked TU’s FB page and have been getting good snippets of information from that - profiles of students and professors with multiple majors and interests across disciplines. Planned renovations to the fitness center and now the football stadium. (Pro and a con because of construction. The end result a Pro.)

Cons:

Probably a good idea to have a car on campus - even as a freshman. Or get to know someone who has a car.

Library not open 24 hours - but since the Science Center is - that works for my S.

Engineering Sciences major - probably a good fit for the right student that wants to dabble in various areas of Engineering and is more interested in the liberal arts education. But not ABET accredited - so requires grad school to become an engineer. At least the is how I understand it. Some LACs have a 3-2 agreement with a more tech university to accomplish this.

3 year live on campus requirement - I like - seems to be some pressure from the student body to reduce this to 2 years according to the campus newspaper.

Academic Scholarships - Tower Scholars Day - in it’s first few years appeared to be a prayer of capturing one of the full tuition scholarships. This year’s report of Tower Scholars Day was that over 350 kids competed for about 20 scholarships. And since it was a bad weather day - they invited the ones unable to attend to come to another run in March. (Not sure if they diluted the original number of scholarships offered to accommodate for the second scholars day or if they increased number of scholarships?) So this scholarship opportunity appears to be very competitive and somewhat unattainable. They don’t do a great job of assessing fit - as often half of those full tuition scholarships go to students who decide to go elsewhere. And there does not appear to be a re-distribution of the scholarship funds. Something IMO they can work on as this program evolves.

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Correction to my review on Trinity U above:

Pros:
“The Center for Innovation and Science - amazing space for research, classrooms, cross-discipline interaction, studying - open 24 hours/day. I would think a big plus for most science focused students (except maybe Engineering - see cons)”

This does not come across as intended: All science majors and non-majors could benefit from this amazing facility - including engineering science students.

Cons: Engineering is not ABET accredited. However, my H and D (freshman hs) went on the engineering track tour at TIF. D was impressed and liked the liberal arts focus very much. More so than the session we attended at the state university that is ABET and highly ranked - but inflexible if you want to change your major.

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@lots2do. Good stuff! One correction: Trinity’s Engineering Science IS accredited. http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=421&ProgramIDs=

Based on my web research, an engineering science graduate can go to grad school in a specific discipline, work for an engineering firm, sit for the fundamentals of engineering exam in any discipline and, after gaining sufficient experience, can sit for the PE exam…