<p>After this last snowstorm, my son started to think about southern schools. A friend of my daughter's had just visited Washington and Lee, where she said a frat party at Kappa Alpha (one with a theme of "the old south" ) featured homeless African Americans paid by the frat boys to pick cotton on the front lawn during the party. We all found this reprehensible. Is this a true representation of the school ?</p>
<p>Good Lord. I sure hope not.</p>
<p>I plan on attending W&L in the fall, so I do not really have the expertise to completely address the question but I can guaruntee you that would not be representative of the student population. Furthermore, the story seems a little strange (how do you know they were homeless?). I doubt this happened and I also doubt that you assumed that the fraternity incident at Johns Hopkins was representative of that university but I guess the fact that W&L has Lee in the name and that it's south of the Potomac might of helped you along a bit.</p>
<p>false. That's a story about an alleged event that happened at another school. there are two KA parties with an old south theme. One was in the fall, and was a dance party. No cotton pickin' African Americans. The other is in the spring, is a date party (by invitation only, a prospective freshman wouldn't be there anyway), and all the boys dress up as Confederate soldiers and all the women wear antebellum dresses. Also no homeless African-Americans. Even the students at this school wouldn't put up with something like that.</p>
<p>false indeed, I'm sure there would've been an uproar if that happened. I'm also pretty sure there is no cotton-growing in Lexington. That said there are a couple of fraternities where a northerner might not be completely comfortable but considering how many fraternities we have on campus, its not exactly hard to avoid them. BTW I'm a Yankee who knows someone in every fraternity on campus and have no problem going to parties at any of them.</p>
<p>I've heard the same story about UGa. and Clemson. Its an "urban myth".</p>
<p>Glad to hear this is false. However, we are a mixed race family and honestly even the confederate soldier party is enought to scratch the school from our list.</p>
<p>Kappa Alpha Order has 132 undergraduate chapters across the country. In addition to the other schools that have KA Orders, Stanford and Princeton are also going to be needed to scratched off your list.</p>
<p>If I was told they had parties that included confederate soldier dress I would.</p>
<p>Back when I was in college, the KA chapter at my school had a dance each year where the boys dressed in uniform and girls dressed in antebellum attire. It was part of their tradition. Not sure if all chapters everywhere across the country still participate in this tradition but, if it's a showstopper for you artschoolmoom, you might want to check it out at any school you're considering.</p>
<p>I know that I attended a University not listed in this thread and KA did the same thing there. I am not naming the school, since I graduated in 1978 and don't know if they still do it, but am just mentioning it as I am pretty sure that the Confederate Ball is part of KA nationally- or it was.</p>
<p>Look, I am from the north and have spent very little time in the south. I really was using this forum to confirm the validity of a story that I had heard and getting a sense for what the differences may be in a southern school. I doubt that any northern frat parties would include confederate dress, I have never heard of it, but perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps many in the south are used to seeing the confederate flag celebrated as a historic and nostalgic symbol. I don't see it that way. I did not want to offend anyone - I really just wanted to get a sense for how comfortable my son might feel (perhaps naively so) and I think my question was answered.</p>
<p>This has nothing at all to do with college but I lived in TN about six years ago and the high school mascot was a confederate soldier. He looked a bit like that KFC guy and really did have a confederate flag that he waved around. It was very strange to say the least!</p>
<p>Artschoolmom, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I woudn't want my kids going to a school where people dress up like Confederate soldiers. IMHO, that's a metaphor for "let's bring back slavery." Southerners will disagree with me probably, but that is how it feels to me.</p>
<p>Obviously, if you hear other rumors about either the same fraternity or other fraternities at other schools, you'll check those out as well.</p>
<p>OMG: Check this out:</p>
<p><a href="http://www2.selu.edu/orgs/ka/page8.html%5B/url%5D">http://www2.selu.edu/orgs/ka/page8.html</a></p>
<p>And this is from <a href="http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=17229%5B/url%5D">http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=17229</a>. It expresses my views, and I think the views of Northerners, quite well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I used to be all about "Southern rights," and how the flag stood for heritage, not hate.</p>
<p>Then, I attended the rededication of my local Confederate veterans' memorial (in Statesboro, GA if any of you are interested), and my views changed.</p>
<p>I saw someone wearing a t-shirt with a picture of the U.S. Capitol flying the stars and bars, captioned "You have your dream and I have mine."</p>
<p>That's really what the "Old South" is about now, isn't it? An attempt at social rebellion after a failed attempt at governmental rebellion. Hell, I just grew my hair long for a while to **** people off.</p>
<p>I'll clarify. Let's say that I fervently, truly believe that Nazi Germany stood not for the annihilation of the Jewish people and world subjugation, but just for a strong Germany. As such, I decide to put a large swastika on a flag pole outside of my house.</p>
<p>My house'll probably get burned down. Why? Because no matter what I or my group of friends believes, the general societal convention surrounding swastikas is one of strictly bad, very bad things.</p>
<p>The same thing applies for wearing Confederate uniforms in public, unless you're doing a legit historical service by reenacting. To the vast majority of Americans, Confederate regalia stands for slavery and racial discrimination, not any kind of "Southern gentleman"-esque values.</p>
<p>If my father opens a door for a lady, telling her "Aftuh you, ma'am," in his Southern drawl, he's being a Southern gentleman. If he wears a Confederate uniform (not that he would, just an example here), he'll be targeted as a cracker-ass racist by the average person.</p>
<p>As such, why would anyone with an ounce of good sense dress in such a manner, unless they want to either distress others and/or look bad themselves? And people wonder when "those damned Yankees" stereotype Southerners as morons...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm fairly certain that every single chapter of KA does this so as motherdear said better remove Princeton and Stanford from your list. Btw I did not see one confederate flag while visiting if that is your fear. But really if a confederate flag is going to bother you than I wonder if you realize that the Lee is Robert E. Lee.</p>
<p>Artschoolmom, let me add my 2 cents about Southern schools, from the viewpoint of a New Jersey/New York person who's lived in Md and Va since graduating college more years ago than I want to admit. If your S is really interested in going to school where the skies are sunnier and the temps are warmer, there are lots of schools in Va and further south that he can look at . Keep in mind that there is a southern culture, but many places it doesn't mean confederate flags and displays of racism--in fact there is arguably more understanding of differences in many places in the S than in the N. Look at some of the fine publics in Va and NC, for instance. There are hosts of enlightened privates,too. Keep looking and be sure to visit, preferably when students are on campus.</p>
<p>That said, most of the schools my D applied to are north of here, or in the mountains where it gets cold and even snowy. In a month or so we may have to convince her that a heavy coat needs to be part of the wardrobe!</p>
<p>I appoligize for my spelling and grammar mistakes in the previous post. That said, there are a lot of things that you would not like at most colleges. Don't allow what one frat does to be the deciding fact.</p>
<p>My son currently has 15 schools on his list, and we have to start narrowing it down. How does one make a choice ? Sometimes it's the tour guide, sometimes it's the feel once you arrive on campus, sometimes it's the fraternities. I have found this dialoque very helpful.</p>
<p>Fact: W&L has 16 fraternities
Fact: Out of those one holds an Old South party that involves confederate dress
Fact: Two of those fraternities are traditionally black, and they, along with an extremely strong Multicultural Students Association, put on a lot of events and parties during the year</p>
<p>You can judge the school by one event put on by a small minority of students or by many events put on by a much larger group of students. The vast majority of W&L students will never attend and Old South party. </p>
<p>There will be people you don't like / don't understand at every campus. You can try to find a college where every single person thinks and acts just like you, but then what would you learn?</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry about it too much. KA is just a very southern fraternity, Robert E. Lee is their spiritual founder, started in Lexington at Washington and Lee along with Sigma Nu and another fraternity I can't remember. Regardless though chapters are different everywhere. The shadiest chapter one place is much more highly regarded elsewhere. Even at big-Greek schools (I go to Wake) you don't necessarily have to join a fraternity and fraternities are actually really positive organizations. KA is okay, they are a bit southern but its not like they are staging cross burnings on campuses across America or anything.</p>
<p>Artschoolmom, don't just cut out a school because of frats. I never thought I would even consider joining one before I got to school, but I considered/rushed but decided to wait to next year. Some frats don't have nice people in them, but the majority are not stereotypical/bad organizations. That is part of being openminded.</p>