<p>Good question- I learned a lot from this board- if you search on "likely letter" and recruiting, there were some good threads late last fall and early this spring. Also, I know a lot of young athletes and there are message boards for my son's particular sport. Many DIII schools have very little pull with admissions. Some of the stronger athletic DIII schools have more pull and can usually get a few athletes in- even in "lesser" sports. S's guidance counselor confirmed the opinion about the one Ivy who urges the kids to apply early and claims that they are "on the list" and then disappointment follows. I don't believe the coaches are dishonest at this school- I just think they don't have the pull that some other coaches do. It also varies by sport.</p>
<p>GOLDEN information. You need to talk to people who have experience in the specific sports and with the specific coaches. You need to ask pointed, aggressive questions. You need to insist on official ratification of what is promised-- or don't count 100% on the promise coming true.</p>
<p>My D was lucky to find a very honest and effective advocate, and to be admitted to an excellent school. Again, read the thread "is enthusiastic coach call = likely letter?" for more details.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input on sports in admissions at mit, faraway. I appreciate all the info I can get. </p>
<p>Yeah I had a coach call me the other night from Harvey Mudd for track and he basically just was doing a follow up call after I had posted info on the website a few hours before. He said that there may be a possibility of me getting there in the future. I think he showed interest in me based more on my academic skills then actually running skills and was trying to help me out as more of a guidance counselor than a coach. It was still cool though because it was the first time any college coach showed any interest in me at all :) .</p>
<p>ChunRich,</p>
<p>At the strong academic schools they WILL be jumping up and down over your academic skills, because they can only go 'so low,' academically, for a recruit. </p>
<p>The coach my D will be playing for was honest and blunt: "There are some great players-- better than you-- who have applied here.... but I simply cannot recruit them. They would not be admitted. You have the athletic skill AND the academic qualifications that allow me to recruit you." </p>
<p>BTW if you run cross country you may want to check out Haverford. Also, there are several runners from last year who posted on the old thread; you could PM them.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>ChunRich, what are your events and times? I can give you more suggestions if I know that.</p>
<p>100M - 11.9
200M - 23.9
Long Jump - 17'6''</p>
<p>haha see, thats why i was surprised a college coach was calling me :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yup. That's what we are counting on at our house.</p>
<p>SBmom, quantitatively what does your quote mean? If a school wants kids with 3.8gpas, they won't take a 3.5 gpa kid who can play the sport? I'm talking division 3. It seems from this thread that you don't get a big bump from division 3 schools for your sport.</p>
<p>dstark,</p>
<p>We met with several Div. 3 coaches last year. All on the east coast as that is the region my daughter chose to attend college. They all said different things as to their pull with admissions. A couple said they were allowed two or three "free passes" per year. The number varied by year and the needs of all the varsity sports. One said, he had an assigned adcom he sat with to evaluate all athletes for his sport. Some said I can help but sat scores and gpa had a minimum score that they could allow. Also, the sport does matter....Like it or not most schools give more slack to the football, basketball, and hockey recruits. We met a lot of upfront honest coaches who said if you apply ED I can really help you, but if you choose to wait for RD then I can't do much. They want to fill their rosters early with kids they KNOW will attend. Of course the level of help is directly related to how badly they want you, and the only way to ascertain that is to bluntly ask.</p>
<p>oldhat, D is already being pulled that ED way. One coach has said that almost all their "recruiting" was finished by December. Our situation is that at most of D's schools she doesn't really "need" any admissions help (except a little at a couple). I'm sure it would help, but what she needs most ,FA/scholarship help, I doubt seriously a coach has any significant pull.</p>
<p>The risks inherent in ED are probably still too great to consider, and I am growing a bit concerned that her need for $ may get in the way of much real recruiting at all. At least the coaches will know who she is when she shows up and walks-on. LOL. It really is the most likely scenario, and that's O.K. with D. School first, school second, ball third.</p>
<p>curmudgeon,</p>
<p>You are right to be nervous. Don't know what D's sport is so I am just commenting on my d's soccer experience. Chose not to apply ED and pretty much was accepting of gaining admission based on her grades and scores. No luck....Her skill at her sport and her good grades and scores would have made her a shoe in ED but we were afraid of the fin-aid also. Opted for RD and did not get in to two of her top choices, but did get into a top lac and will play her sport as the coach showed interest although she had still pushed her to apply ED. They (the coaches) seem to feel that if you are not willing to commit early then they are not promising anything down the road. It is all a crapshoot and you have to go with your own instincts and needs. Our d is very happy with the outcome and that's all that really matters. Also, as you know most of these schools are need based financial aid and that's about all you can count on.</p>
<p>HERE'S THAT THREAD THAT SBMOM MENTIONED:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=12935%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=12935</a></p>
<p>PLUS ONE OF MY ALL-TIME FAVORITE THREADS ON ATHLETIC "TIPS" AT WILLIAMS BY INTERESTEDDAD:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=35438%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=35438</a></p>
<p>BOTH WORTH READING FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WEREN'T IN ON THE THREADS IN THE FIRST PLACE.</p>
<p>Dstark- a 3.5 kid is still recruitable- it's the 2.9 kid trying to run or swim at a top LAC who is going to be a problem for a coach. The DIII coach that is really being attentive to S right now was clear that ED is the way to go. The Ivy coaches were equally clear. One wonderful coach (Patriot League) told S that he could take his shot at an Ivy and if it didn't work out he could do EDII at his school. It is a nerve-wracking process. BUT- as SBMom will tell you, the door isn't closed after ED. Both sides sort themselves out- some coaches got stiffed by athletes and some athletes didn't get into their ED schools. A lot of kids simply can not or will not do ED- for lots of valid reasons. Most of the top kids in S's sport last year did NOT go ED. Of course, for the most part these were not kids who were trying to get into the very top academic schools. I reported before that a spring state champion in S's sport was one of Princeton's top recruits. The coach even told us the boy was coming to Princeton in the fall. Whoops- he didn't get in! The kid was extremely well-qualified, even without being recruited.</p>
<p>ChunRich- those times will be attractive to some coaches, especially coupled with your strong academics. The coach could "recruit" you but not have to use one of his "tips" to get you in. He may see potential in you beyond your times.</p>
<p>I can see why ED is important to coaches. ED is tough for the students.</p>
<p>Yeah MomofWildChild, that is a possibility. He was really impressed that i could run a 23.9 200M since I have only had one year of experience. I dont know what im going to do with college.... Just trying to keep all my doors open, you know</p>
<p>
[quote]
We met with several Div. 3 coaches last year. All on the east coast as that is the region my daughter chose to attend college. They all said different things as to their pull with admissions. A couple said they were allowed two or three "free passes" per year.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's what Coach Van Allen at Johns Hopkins told me, "You're not academically qualified for the school, but as a Division III Coach, we're allowed certain passes to allow students in for the sports programs that otherwise would not be getting in." I almost feel bad for turning the guy down, he seemed like he genuinely wanted me to run there. I didn't even fill out the application, it never crossed my mind to run DIII.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The coach even told us the boy was coming to Princeton in the fall. Whoops- he didn't get in! The kid was extremely well-qualified, even without being recruited.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hey, sounds like what happened to me at Davidson. But I doubt I was academically qualified there either, haha. The coach told me at one point in February, I believe, "Don't even bother filling out any other applications, you're in." I believed him, too, I had my official visit and all that fun stuff and it was never indicated that I wouldn't be getting in. But I got waitlisted and ended up at a better program anyhow.</p>
<p>Also, I don't know what types of times they're looking for in Division III, but I would make you a 100 runner and see what you could do from there. An 11.9 100 with a 23.9 200 shows great top-end speed and maybe if you could get your start down you could be running mid 11s the first meet out. I ran 11.9 and 24.4 my freshman year in high school, so there's no doubt you can drop those times like crazy.</p>
<p>My daughter went through this several years ago. At some schools like MIT admissions officers specifically said that certain sports had some impact on admissions decisions whereas others did not. Her dad made a highlight tape using the school game footage--nothing fancy. Her sport was volleyball. She got in to the two D3 schools where she considered playing but decided to attend a D1 school where she never considered playing. I honestly don't know if the sports helped in their decisions or if it was more her levels of leadership and involvement coupled with her grades.</p>
<p>Several Division III schools had interest in my Son for football. Among them were NESCAC schools. I can only speak about football but the NESCAC school coaches are given several admissions "slots" for athletes.</p>
<p>Two of the NESCAC's in particular had a lot of interest in my son and were talking about giving him one of the slots. However, there was a lot of pressure to apply ED. My son did not want to do this and ended up waitlisted at both schools. Coaches frown upon RD applicants.</p>
<p>He ended up attending a DIII school as a recruited athlete where he applied EA.</p>
<p>As far as MIT goes, coaches have little influence with admissions other than to recommend an athlete. The football coach gave it his best "shot" to help my son but he was waitlisted, then declined there.</p>
<p>Oldhat,
my experience jibes completely with yours.</p>
<p>dstark,
I was left feeling that unless it is a big time sport, or unless you are a <em>big</em> star, they really want the SAT score over 1250-1300 (old SAT) for the top academic D3s. (My D had a 1350 on her 2nd try-- but when we were first talking to people it was a 1290, and that was good enough to get coach enthusiasm.) They can probably admit a few kids around 1200 but it is a question of not having the athletic teams' average SAT be too low compared to the average of the school. So a high stat good athlete counterbanlances the poor SAT of an athletic superstar. I think Interesteddad's thread, noted above, gets into the actual numbers and breakdowns.</p>